Poor airmanship or not?

[Jabiru7252]

I hear a pilot call saying "Gawler CTAF, this is flapdoodle 1234 unfamiliar with the field, turning left base, not sure of runway, fullstop landing". Now, if I was flying to an airstrip, I would check it out before the flight, second, let us say he/she was landing there because he/she had diverted, even being unfamiliar with the airstrip, one would be able to say 'turning base for zero five, full stop landing " even if the runway heading was an rough estimate, it would be better than nothing. Am I being a pedantic zeeb or would you expect the same airmanship? (flapdoodle 1234 is used to protect the guilty!)

 

 

[Ultralights]

very poor airmanship.

 

even if the pilot diverted, they should still know everything they need to know about the airfield. thats why you have to carry a valid ERSA! in the planning stages, diversion options must be considered.

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

No I think you are correct in expecting a certain measure of pilot skill from a visitor to your field, it would be even worse if the aircraft had an instructor on board ( was it a singe or two seat Flapdoodle), I queried someone last week when he was in the circuit for RWY 35 at Aldinga, we don't have one I said, his response was oh, I mean left circuit for RWY 37 ?, he was in fact on a right circuit for RWY 14 ( I observed from a safe distance ).

 

 

[shu77]

Yeah, I agree They should have checked the runway and the circuit procedure in the ERSA, how were they finding circuit height if they hadnt looked at the elevation? sounds pretty dangerous to me

 

 

[turboplanner]

This is a training issue, and a good reason for carrying paperwork in your aircraft. The mind boggles at what the circuit pattern was at the time.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't even a diversion, but if it was he/she should have been trained in diversions and the extra pressure of making sure the airfield is serviceable for a start.

 

 

[facthunter]

Let's change the scenario/ you are flying you ubeut 123 near a major aerodrome where the radio is functioning,( Say Adelaide) and a sea fog comes in and you need assistance from radar to get out of it. Don't hesitate even if your R/T standard is crook. Just don't cut in over critical traffic unless you are in a genuine emergency. Mayday gives you priority Bla Bla. I am (somewhere) with problem (in cloud) Low fuel etc Unfamiliar with (whatever) require assistance.

 

Stating that you are unfamiliar with a place unless someone can help you is not much point but if it means that you might be somewhere you shouldn't I would call that a bit of useful information. for people in the vicinity. Whether your state of preparedness is the cause or just disorientated because of unfamiliarity is a good excuse for that situation is debateable. I was near a DC10 that was going to land at Essendon instead of Tullamarine so it DOES happen to BIGGER guys too. I recall what the pilot said.. Aahh.. Mela..bourne.... ALL of us here are most happy for what you did. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

I would say that he has been around for a while ,the " Blah blah CTAF" was replaced with "Blah blah traffic" a fair while ago.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Off Topic: Wasn't it "Blah blah MBZ??" in the dim dark past Dazza...?

 

On Topic: You'd think the flapdoodle driver would be able to ad-lib a circuit broadcast off his compass....

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I would also agree on the "bad airmanship". OK so he's turning base onto a runway and doesn't know the heading, but his radio call gives NO idea which end of the runway he's turning onto. If I was anywhere near that field, I'd be heading AWAY from it real quick with a nong like that flying around. Even a guess at the runway heading would give others some idea of which way he's landing. Given the radio call, I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy landing downwind.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Even a guess at the runway heading would give others some idea of which way he's landing.

That's my point. If he's about to turn base it's the reciprocal of his current heading +/- 10 degrees

[facthunter]

Pretty common problem. I'm certainly not excusing it. Orientating yourself around the circuit should be properly taught. As I've said before, anytime I have questioned anyone as to confirm a previously stated position, they never reply. You are looking where they say they are and they are over the other side of the field. This is not proper use of radio which can be a real aid to safe circuit work done properly. An incorrect position given is probably worse than no call at all. Nev

 

 

[Aldo]

Would need to know the complete story here, on the surface bad airmanship - yes. Digging a little deeper lets say the oil pressure dropped off the clock (life becomes a little stressful after that) even if you are bright enough to cross check the temp (want to get this girl on the ground), guy/girl calls left base not sure of runway, if you only have one runway then only two (2) places you need to be looking to find them and they've already said they are unfamiliar. Not bad if they are in an emergency or semi-emergency situation, pretty poor if they were planning to fly there.

 

Remember - Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Getting the aircraft safely on the ground is the most important consideration.

 

 

[rick-p]

Who cares he at least announced his presence and he did check out the runway, he landed didn't he.

 

If you ever get or confused or whatever get on the radio give it your best shot and fly the plane with your head out of your butt and looking outside every which way.

 

I would rather know of your existence early rather than not having had the opportunity to locate and avoid you.

 

Rick-p

 

 

[turboplanner]

I care Rick, I don't want him anywhere near a circuit with six or more aircraft and an inbound RPT. He had the option of doing the same training as the rest of us.

 

 

[rick-p]

Nev, have been using 50mls outboard 2 stroke per 50 litres of avgas and at about 300hrs still 150 even on each cylinder, thanks for the good advice.

 

 

[Tomo]

Could have been better, but I have to admit, he was honest, which I would rather than someone who sounded the part but didn't know.

 

If you're flying into a controlled aerodrome and unfamiliar with procedures, you state so to the tower and they will often help you out. I've landed at some strips, mostly private, and have just stated I'm landing to the southwest...etc, or whatever.

 

Not saying it should be the way it needs to be, just saying he was pretty helpful to others in the area to alert them of the fact he's there.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I wonder how he knew what freq to be on? Without knowing the full story its hard to say what was going on. The only thing I could think of that would cause him to blunder in like that w(apart from just being a poorly trained sh!t pilot) would be some sort of emergency, or perceived emergency? Focus on flying the plane left him un able to devote time/ energy to flicking through an ersa? Some control problem, failure perhaps of some system? Even small seemingly inoquious probelems can seem like big ones to low time pilots, and the stress leve4ls elvating can cause major degradation of performance. Howevere, still there is that question, how did he know the freq?

 

But yes, baring some emergency, it seems quite poor standards. Perhaps a non x country endorsed pilot wandering out of his depth? Interestingly, arrival at un familiar airfields is NOT part of the pilots certificate syllabus. Something I believe needs to be rectified..Anyone got Myles number?..?:)

 

 

[turboplanner]

It was possibly his own field

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Lol. Surely not..

 

 

[skeptic36]

I wonder how he knew what freq to be on? Without knowing the full story its hard to say what was going on. The only thing I could think of that would cause him to blunder in like that w(apart from just being a poorly trained sh!t pilot) would be some sort of emergency, or perceived emergency? Focus on flying the plane left him un able to devote time/ energy to flicking through an ersa? Some control problem, failure perhaps of some system? Even small seemingly inoquious probelems can seem like big ones to low time pilots, and the stress leve4ls elvating can cause major degradation of performance. Howevere, still there is that question, how did he know the freq?But yes, baring some emergency, it seems quite poor standards. Perhaps a non x country endorsed pilot wandering out of his depth? Interestingly, arrival at un familiar airfields is NOT part of the pilots certificate syllabus. Something I believe needs to be rectified..Anyone got Myles number?..?:)

If it was an emergency he should have declared it so everyone can get out of his way.

Today at Latrobe Valley there was a twin engined something or other doing right hand circuits while the rest of the world were doing left, now wouldn't you think if he had progressed through his flying career far enough to get his bum in the left hand seat of a twin he would be able to figure that one out.....

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea skeptic, we all know what 'should' be done.;)

 

All pilots regardless of type, licence, rating, hours, experience, sock size etc are capable of making mistakes, loosing SA, ignoring procedures, or just generally stuffing up. No body is imune. In fact the more complex the aeroplane the less brain space there is left for other things.

 

I'm not condoning this guys behavior, chance are he was just an undertrained pilot blundering around the sky.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Could have been better, but I have to admit, he was honest, which I would rather than someone who sounded the part but didn't know.If you're flying into a controlled aerodrome and unfamiliar with procedures, you state so to the tower and they will often help you out. I've landed at some strips, mostly private, and have just stated I'm landing to the southwest...etc, or whatever.

 

Not saying it should be the way it needs to be, just saying he was pretty helpful to others in the area to alert them of the fact he's there.

Hey Tomo

 

How is life Outback? Weather should be just about beautiful now...blue skies, not many thermals...lovely!

 

Lots of place never mentioned in ERSA, eh?

 

Kaz

 

 

[metalman]

If it was an emergency he should have declared it so everyone can get out of his way.Today at Latrobe Valley there was a twin engined something or other doing right hand circuits while the rest of the world were doing left, now wouldn't you think if he had progressed through his flying career far enough to get his bum in the left hand seat of a twin he would be able to figure that one out.....

I dropped in there today, at the same time as the tool doing right hand circuits , I checked my ERSA once I'd shut down thinking perhaps I'd cocked it up. Feel better now,

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

I can recall at least 4 GA single or twin aircraft at our home airfield who have commenced contrary direction ccts on one of our runways in the last 6 mths, another half dozen that have done mid x- wind joins and cut off existing downwind traffic, this is not isolated to any particular grouping, but poor airmanship is alive and well at most airfields. All we can work on is that it's not us.

 

 

[Aldo]

Maybe the guy was doing asymmetric training and the right (starboard) engine was the CE would make sense to be doing right hand circuits or maybe he was just adhering to the noise abatement procedures listed in the ERSA and avoiding the sensitive area to the south of RW21, BOM records show that the wind would have favoured 21 today for a light twin. I don't know I wasn't there, but just making the statement that some clown was doing the wrong thing without knowing the full story is not that informative.