Censure Motion against RA-Aus President

[jamel]

I send in a photocopy of my last Log book page with the CFI's stamp and signature every time I do a BFR. I don't think it is a requirement, I do it though so that I know that the RAA have at least a copy of that page in case something un towards happens to my log book.

The way they lose photos of aircraft I wouldn't be counting on them ever being able to lay hands on them Dazza:thumb down:

 

 

[airangel]

If this censure motion passes you may be surprised at what you have not got. !

 

To many useless words and not enough action

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

"Pilots have to send a photocopy of their log book after each BFR" .???????

This only applies to have a GA AFR recognised by RAA.

The letter from RAAus - Pilot Renewal Notice - ... forward a copy of the relevant page from your pilot log book clearly identifying the date of your last flight review ...

 

Sue

 

 

[frank marriott]

The letter from RAAus - Pilot Renewal Notice - ... forward a copy of the relevant page from your pilot log book clearly identifying the date of your last flight review ...

Sue

Thanks Sue

 

If they have changed the rules I am happy to comply, this is new and not in the ops manual. I even had correspondence with the Manager at the time 4 years ago[no longer with us] asking why if an endorsement in your log book and no copy sent is all that is required with CASA why do we need this? Responsibility being with the pilot to prove he/she is legal in an incident or ramp check. Repy was to the effect that "we require it".

 

If the rules have changed or RAA are going overboard to ensure compliance so be it. Just goes to prove my post was wrong!!!!!!!!

 

Last BFR was February no problems. Maybe just on lic renewal which in my case is only 2 months away, too easy if that is what is wanted now I will sent the extra page to keep everyone happy.

 

 

[nomadpete]

My license renewal just came and I didn't send a pic of my last BFR. At no stage of my renewal process was confirmation of BFR requested. I hope we are all being treated equally.

 

 

[ave8rr]

My license renewal just came and I didn't send a pic of my last BFR. At no stage of my renewal process was confirmation of BFR requested. I hope we are all being treated equally.

I renewed my membership last Dec which was due date but they did not send a new certificate as they had no record of a current BFR.

I have not needed it (certificate) as flying CASA Experimental on a CPL. Just need to send in copy of log book to show BFR and new Cert will be sent!

 

 

[Guest john]

Any President or Chairman elect who requires the existing committee members to support him 100% is dictatorial & any committee members who give this guarantee, they are both on the path of extinction & self destruction in any democratic society.

 

Whether or not a Safety Officer exists on the staff of any aviation organisation, accidents & fatalities are always going to happen whilst there are aircraft of any size are in the skies around the world whether they be A380's or rag & tube aircraft.

 

An ex employee of RAA once stated in a publication, " Well the answer is that all accidents , fatal or not, are preventable in some way shape or form". What a useless piece of information to make in a publication. Maybe that person has a magic wand which we learned Pilots have yet to be informed about in the Human Factors exam.

 

As sure as night follows day & my rear end points to the ground, the only way the abovementioned statement will ever come to fruition is if aircraft regardless of size are grounded throughout the world indefinitley , which of course is neither practical nor would the worlds majority population accept.

 

Therefore if a Safety Officers appointment to RAA is urgent or not it will still not prevent accidents & fatalities occurring, as the end result is up to each Pilot of their respective aircraft .

 

 

[bilby54]

Therefore if a Safety Officers appointment to RAA is urgent or not it will still not prevent accidents & fatalities occurring, as the end result is up to each Pilot of their respective aircraft .

Never a more true statement than that John!

 

A fellow GA CFI had a student fatality when he was on his way home from an AFR..... no safety officer, procedure or documentation could help, it was just up to the pilot. As far as help for schools and all of the pilots in RAA goes, we do not know what accidents are causing the problems or what is trending as RAA does not publish anything about accidents.

 

Alll of a sudden out of the blue we are emailed some half baked safety management plan that as CFI's we have to complete and somehow..... somehow, that is going to fix our safety problems - get real

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Please don't try and tell me that if the Board passes a censure motion against President Ed because they feel he acted improperly and went against the declared wishes of the Board Majority and gifted a plumb job to a mate that CASA will mount a raid on RA-Aus and shut it down and ground 3,500+ aircraft and 10,000 pilots indefinitely. Please, try a realistic threat not codswallop like this one.

 

We used to get that same dumb story trotted out with regard to the previous President. "Stop picking on Steve Runciman because he might get the hump and walk away and then RA-Aus will cease to exist or will be run by the dregs of humanity that are the remainder of the Board. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. There are some very good people on the Board who would be quite capable of running RA-Aus with the support of the Board as a team in a democratic way and respecting the letter and spirit of the Constitution not trying to weasel their way around the words to justify an improper act.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Don, you might be unaware of the CASA sanction process against Ansett, Tiger Airlines and Recreationat Aviation Australia Inc.

 

One good thing about CASA is that generally you get plenty of warning.

 

In the case of RAA CASA identified non conformance as part of an Audit, issued a report to RAA, which was not complied with and it took until the fourth Audit over quite a long before they took decisive action. That action effectively grounded any aircraft until it was shown to be fully compliant with the applicable regulations.

 

So there is an in house precedent which is contrary to your hopeful dream.

 

As we know, a Safety Management System, is mandatory for us, and is part of the deed of agreement. We might or might not like it, but it is compulsory, and has been for at least three years.

 

We've seen the first threat of sanctions, which I would equate to the first of the CASA Audits. CASA do follow due process, which everyone here wants, so I would expect to see a series of warnings and then the same process applied as it was for the aircraft, and perhaps that would be the cessation of FTF's which could not show a compliant SMS until such time as they could, so yes 3500 aircraft were not grounded at once and I wouldn't expect 3500 aircraft and 10,000 pilots to be grounded at once, but you certainly can get a rough idea of what would happen from the current Audit sanctions.

 

 

[pilotjames]

I know my CFI well and I totally disagree with the log book photocopy requirement for your BFR. When you do your BFR, a form is completed and the CFI submits this to RAA and it appears on your file. End of action.

 

If however your testing CFI DOES NOT submit the form for you (which is a requirement of him) then your file is not updated. The next time you come up for any action on your file by staff at RAA, you will be requested to submit a copy of your log book page that shows the instructors signature that shows you have had a BFR, it is then end of story.

 

If you don't want to submit copy of the page of the logbook, ENSURE your testing instructor submits your paperwork.

 

Know your testing instructor and make him accountable.

 

 

[REastwood]

I renewed my membership last Dec which was due date but they did not send a new certificate as they had no record of a current BFR.I have not needed it (certificate) as flying CASA Experimental on a CPL. Just need to send in copy of log book to show BFR and new Cert will be sent!

Don't be too certain of that, I did the same thing and I was told that my Flight Review was not valid, yet it conformed to both the Operations Manual 2.07-4 and CAR 5.81(5)(a)). Apparently it is their policy to only accept some types of Flight Review. So it is a bit of a lottery if you do a GA flight review for the renewal of a PPL then then may or may not accept it despite what the regulations say.

 

 

[Teckair]

John said.... the only way the abovementioned statement will ever come to fruition is if aircraft regardless of size are grounded throughout the world indefinitley

 

Even then it would only be a matter of time before someone would walk into a pitot tube and poke their eye out.

 

 

[facthunter]

Stopping aircraft from flying seems to be characteristic of the CASA lately. There is no doubt that would improve aviation safety, but it is hardly the answer. I am not excusing the fact that this matter of not having a safetyMS in place has not been done when the requirement has been around for years. There is no excuse for that. Could it be that it was treated as nanny state stuff?. and would go away if ignored? Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

I know my CFI well and I totally disagree with the log book photocopy requirement for your BFR. When you do your BFR, a form is completed and the CFI submits this to RAA and it appears on your file. End of action.If however your testing CFI DOES NOT submit the form for you (which is a requirement of him) then your file is not updated. The next time you come up for any action on your file by staff at RAA, you will be requested to submit a copy of your log book page that shows the instructors signature that shows you have had a BFR, it is then end of story.

 

If you don't want to submit copy of the page of the logbook, ENSURE your testing instructor submits your paperwork.

 

Know your testing instructor and make him accountable.

In my opinion this ludicrous requirement of a SFI having to send BFR paperwork into RA Aus is total BS.

We have NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for GA licensing. In GA the onus of compliance is on the pilot; a person must not act as PIC unless within the preceding 24 months the person has successfully completed a BFR and passed the appropriate medical examination. The medical certificate is required to be carried by the PIC and the BFR entry is in the Pilot's log book.

 

I thought the RA Aus ethos was that we would NOT require regulation or process more onerous than GA ... so much for that.

 

So why do RA Aus need this extra paperwork for a BFR, it is unecessary process and time consumed by office staff. It is the pilots responsibility ....Nanny RA Aus ????

 

 

[djpacro]

New Part 61 regs do require AFRs to be sent to CASA (some-one told me, I haven't read it all yet).

 

 

[David Isaac]

sssshhhhh don't give the bastards any more ideas Uncle D.

 

 

[David Isaac]

So has anyone heard any result from the Censure motion debate by the Board?

 

 

[dazza 38]

In my opinion this ludicrous requirement of a SFI having to send BFR paperwork into RA Aus is total BS.We have NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for GA licensing. In GA the onus of compliance is on the pilot; a person must not act as PIC unless within the preceding 24 months the person has successfully completed a BFR and passed the appropriate medical examination. The medical certificate is required to be carried by the PIC and the BFR entry is in the Pilot's log book.

 

I thought the RA Aus ethos was that we would NOT require regulation or process more onerous than GA ... so much for that.

 

So why do RA Aus need this extra paperwork for a BFR, it is unecessary process and time consumed by office staff. It is the pilots responsibility ....Nanny RA Aus ????

Because we are treated like children. There seems to be a lot of things RAA has to do where as it isn't required in the GA world. Example -MASSIVE rego letters under the left wing. Rego renewals every year. Membership renewals etc.

 

 

[frank marriott]

New Part 61 regs do require AFRs to be sent to CASA (some-one told me, I haven't read it all yet).

Try

 

61.1220 Obligations of pilot instructors—flight reviews

 

(1)

 

A pilot instructor commits an offence if:

 

(a) the instructor conducts a flight review for the holder of a pilot licence; and

 

(b) the holder successfully completes the flight review; and

 

© the instructor does not, within 14 days after the day the flight review is successfully completed:

 

(i) endorse the holder’s licence document in accordance with subregulation (2); and

 

(ii) give CASA a written notice that complies with subregulation (3).

 

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

In my opinion this ludicrous requirement of a SFI having to send BFR paperwork into RA Aus is total BS.We have NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for GA licensing. In GA the onus of compliance is on the pilot; a person must not act as PIC unless within the preceding 24 months the person has successfully completed a BFR and passed the appropriate medical examination. The medical certificate is required to be carried by the PIC and the BFR entry is in the Pilot's log book.

 

I thought the RA Aus ethos was that we would NOT require regulation or process more onerous than GA ... so much for that.

 

So why do RA Aus need this extra paperwork for a BFR, it is unecessary process and time consumed by office staff. It is the pilots responsibility ....Nanny RA Aus ????

Unless things have changed very recently I don't think your statement is quite right David.

 

Until the early 1990s your BFR or any other endorsement was written into your logbook, and/or stamped, signed by the CFI and the CFI kept a training log showing the same details. Excerpts from his log were forwarded by snail mail to DoA/DCA/CAA on a monthly basis usually. That was essential so that the Regulator had a record of what your BFR/endorsement status was and they used to send you a printed copy of your endorsements with your medical certificate when it was renewed each year (or each two years for Class 2 medicals).

 

In the early 1990s CAA issued the schools with stickers that were applied to your log instead of the CFI's scrawl and they also attached the second third to the training log and the wonders of the fax machine made it much quicker to get your new endorsement acknowledged by CAA. The third third of the sticker was forwarded by snail mail as a back-up but as they computerised everything you had to fight to get all your endorsements back because the office staff must have got tired and didn't finish typing them all into the system.

 

More recently notification of completion of BFRs and endorsements has been done by the CFI online I believe. So there has always been a requirement for the Regulator to be notified of them.

 

So I think the only real difference between GA and RAAus is that RAAus issues a new pilot certificate each year whereas GA don't, GA issues a new medical certificate annually or biennially. I think the RAAus reasoning for new certificates is that they carry TP insurance for the pilot with them, in GA the aircraft insurance carries that.

 

Regarding the onus, they are quite similar too, in RAAus the onus is still on you to not fly unless you have a new certificate which indicates that RAAus has accepted your declaration of medical sufficiency and thereby provided you with insurance and that you are a Member of the Association which is a condition that must be met for you to fly recreational aircraft according to the terms of the CAOs and CASRs.

 

GA has no such membership requirement so there doesn't need to be a certificate.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Bugga ... there goes my argument ... LOL.

 

I didn't know that HITC and I've been a PPL holder for more than 30 years. The requirement for BFRs came about in the 80s from memory. None of my BFRs ... sorry AFRs ... damn it lets just call them FRs have ever been more than a specific FR stamp in my log book with a CASA number (I assume is my CFIs ARN) and his signature. He was one of the best CFIs I know and conducted my FR very well which I appreciated. I used it as a full review and update because I was never very actively current. I happen to think that a comprehensive FR is a great asset to all of us because we do develop bad habits sometimes.

 

I had no idea all that administrative stuff was occurring in the background. Makes sense though.