Why Was This Man Allowed To Fly. Interesting news article

[Jabiru7252]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/woman-sues-doctors-over-partner8217s-death-during-joy-flight-crash-with-pilot-barry-hempel/story-fnii5v6u-1226667749832

[Gnarly Gnu]

Another CASA triumph that case.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

While I feel for the victims family, I dont see the MD as being negligent. Casa were obviously informed of his condition and the medical section would have (should have) prescribed strict medical assessments of his condition before the issue of his medical. I have to under go a battery of tests every year for my grade 1 medical at CASA's request, because i had a heart op when I was 7. I know how over the top CASA medical requirements are, and to illude that this gentleman has slipped through the cracks, and further to indicate that this was the reason for the deaths is a bit over the top IMHO.

 

 

[metalman]

There is a massive amount of stuff on this guy, some think he was gods gift to aviation, others say he was a dangerous cowboy, I have no opinion either way other than from what I've read he should've been grounded years before the fatal crash.

 

He had plenty of skill for sure but with that should come the responsibility to be an example to lesser pilots .

 

A case in point ,I was with a mate at Tyabb airshow last time it was on and as we walked by Matt Hall's stand he stopped my mate and asked his opinion on the routine Matt had just done, I was amazed at two things, Matt halls humility and who is this fella I'm hanging around with that Matt hall asks to critique his performance.

 

Matty

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

If not grounded then forbidden to carry any passengers other than one capable of taking control in the event of a medical episode. (Not my words, just posting on a non-aviators behalf). Sounds reasonable to me.

 

 

[facthunter]

Avmed are normally extremely cautious. Barry was a controversial pilot but this is alleged to be a medical matter and it seems the coroner has yet to bring down a finding. No doubt the lady is distressed at the outcome understandably, but more information needed. Dying in a sport plane performing aerobatics is not unknown. I nearly managed it myself when a part failed, and such was the nature of it that no investigation would have been able to determine whether it was pre or post impact. Normally every one just blames the pilot who is not there to defend him/herself. Nev

 

 

[bull]

Hard-to-condone-but-just-as-hard-condem,,,,,I-once-flew-a-full-aerobatic-routine-with-Barry-and-yes-very-skilled-pilot-he-was,A-career-pilot-who-wanted-to-keep-flying-at-a-cost,,,,,,,But-the-other-side-of-the-coin-was-daring,,,,,,,,Barry-dared-death-every-day------we-rolled-inverted-50-of-the-deck-and-climbed-out-inverted-over-very-large,very-solid-gumtrees-at-old-statipon-many-years-ago-in-his-yellow-yak52-,,,,,,,scared-the-shit-out-me-but-the-rest-of-the-routine*-was-faultless-perfect-,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,THAT-was-just-Barry,,,,,,,,another-thing,,if-he-was-alive-today-,,,,,,,I-would-not-hesitate-to-fly-with-him-anytime------RIP-

 

 

[Methusala]

Aviation by its nature attracts people who dare to "push the envelope". Without such people we would not have CASA because everyone would be so scared to death of flying. I hear them all the time and say that if they want to try something really, stupidly dangerous, try riding a motorbike on the city streets! I think that in a forum of pilots this type of discussion should be conducted at a more thoughtful level. Don

 

 

[geoffreywh]

the poor bloke's gone and his worries are over, I sympathise for the lady left to grieve and ponder what might have been for the rest of her life...........No wonder she's in court.

 

 

[Guest john]

Aviation by its nature attracts people who dare to "push the envelope". Without such people we would not have CASA because everyone would be so scared to death of flying. I hear them all the time and say that if they want to try something really, stupidly dangerous, try riding a motorbike on the city streets! I think that in a forum of pilots this type of discussion should be conducted at a more thoughtful level. Don

If Barry Hempel had any idea whatsoever before this fatal flight took place that he & his valued passenger would not return to terra firma safely after this flight , then Barry would not have undertaken this flight, as he was a skillful & experienced pilot that always looked at ways of raising the bar.

 

As far as the medical skills of DAME Doctors go, they are only human as we all are, although a minority think they are way above us & are super human. This TV documentary tonight will put the sh--s up DAME Doctors to issue medical renewals for pilots in the near future .

 

To explain an actual real live example, this pilot had a stroke some years ago, & after several consultations with their family Doctor & the Neurologist in an endeavour to obtain a certification for CASA to renew the pilots license, the Neurologist told the Pilot on their last visit the following details:

 

"I have some good news & some bad news for you. The good news is that you have successfully recovered from your stroke & as long as you stay on the prescribed medication all should be well in the future. The bad news is that I can't recommend CASA to renew your medical certificate because I don't know if you will ever have another stroke particularly when you are flying".

 

The Pilot was dumbfounded with the Neurologists abovementioned bad news & in response told the Neurologist that 1 day in the future both of us are going to die which is our destiny at some point in time, & should we be both lying next to each other in the same morgue or funeral parlor next to each other on a cold slab of marble , we will both be equal. The pilot then told the Neurologist in parting that he had no alternative but to now obtain a 2nd opinion from a more experienced & practical minded Neurologist which he did a few months after this & was able to resume his flying once again.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

It is a great pity we don't have Pip Bormann to watch anymore, he was world class. Another was Leo Loudenslanger from the US. He pumped gas to home-build his first Extra aerobatic plane, and went on to become US And World Aerobatic champion. He was also an aerobatic master, who made every display look like it was going to be his last.....a drunk wiped him out one night as he was riding his Harley home !......enjoy it while you can I say............Maj...

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's also a pity we don't have an ATSB investigation report on the Pip Boorman crash so we could learn from it also.

 

This thread contains some news, some reference to TV commentary of the whole Barry Hempel story and some reference to a Coroner's actions.

 

I've posted the public liability details in the "Public Liability" thread so we can track an actual case, which will be interesting for people who believe the buck still stops with the PIC (whose estate is not mentioned), and CFIs and FIs who are also in the Chain of Responsibility.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Some may admire him for "pushing the envelope", but just remember who you have in the passenger seat and why they're there. It's not all about you when you're carrying paying passengers.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't know why we are speculating on the "manner" of his flying. The legal thrust relies on medical assertions, and the coroner has not finalised any report. Nev

 

 

[bull]

DUTCHROLL-SAID,,,,,,,Some may admire him for "pushing the envelope", but just remember who you have in the passenger seat and why they're there. It's not all about you when you're carrying paying passengers.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Gday-Dutch-yes-your-right---BUT-Barry-was,nt-just-flying-this-passenger-from-A-TO-B-or-simalar-rpt-services-----THIS-WAS-A-HIGH-ADRENALIN-,,,,,HIGH-DANGER-HIGH-RISK--adventure-flight-with-a-fully-aerobatic-aircraft-and-trained-aerobatic-pilot-if-you-didnt-push-the-envelope-for-high-thrills,,,,,repeat,THRILLS-you-would-not-be-running-a-business-anymore,pushing-the-evelope-is-part-of-these-sorts-of-flight-,,,,have-a-think-about-what-you-say-and-show-some-respect,,,,and-if-risk-concerns-you-that-much-dont-get-out-of-bed-MATE-you-might-slip-in-the-shower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

[Teckair]

My understanding is Barry Hempel had a known medical condition which meant he could black out at any time and this was the result of a hangar door strike to his head after the door had been caught in the wind.

 

If this was the case you don't have to be a genius to realise he should not be flying a plane or even driving a car for that matter and you could hardly blame the woman for being pi$$ed off and wanting someone to take responsibility for the death of her partner.

 

 

[Guest john]

My understanding is Barry Hempel had a known medical condition which meant he could black out at any time and this was the result of a hangar door strike to his head after the door had been caught in the wind.If this was the case you don't have to be a genius to realise he should not be flying a plane or even driving a car for that matter and you could hardly blame the woman for being pi$$ed off and wanting someone to take responsibility for the death of her partner.

DUTCHROLL-SAID,,,,,,,Some may admire him for "pushing the envelope", but just remember who you have in the passenger seat and why they're there. It's not all about you when you're carrying paying passengers.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Gday-Dutch-yes-your-right---BUT-Barry-was,nt-just-flying-this-passenger-from-A-TO-B-or-simalar-rpt-services-----THIS-WAS-A-HIGH-ADRENALIN-,,,,,HIGH-DANGER-HIGH-RISK--adventure-flight-with-a-fully-aerobatic-aircraft-and-trained-aerobatic-pilot-if-you-didnt-push-the-envelope-for-high-thrills,,,,,repeat,THRILLS-you-would-not-be-running-a-business-anymore,pushing-the-evelope-is-part-of-these-sorts-of-flight-,,,,have-a-think-about-what-you-say-and-show-some-respect,,,,and-if-risk-concerns-you-that-much-dont-get-out-of-bed-MATE-you-might-slip-in-the-shower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You are not even safe in BED, as this true incident reveals, that occurred in Brussells some years ago.

 

This innocent person was at home in bed asleep when a Belgium air force jet had an engine failure over Brussells which resulted in the airforce jet unfortunately crashing through the roof of this sleeping mans house which killed him. Had he known this was to occurr he would have foregone his sleep & gone for a walk or drive instead.

 

 

[dutchroll]

......BUT-Barry-was,nt-just-flying-this-passenger-from-A-TO-B-or-simalar-rpt-services-----THIS-WAS-A-HIGH-ADRENALIN-,,,,,HIGH-DANGER-HIGH-RISK--adventure-flight-with-a-fully-aerobatic-aircraft-and-trained-aerobatic-pilot-if-you-didnt-push-the-envelope-for-high-thrills,,,,,repeat,THRILLS-you-would-not-be-running-a-business-anymore,pushing-the-evelope-is-part-of-these-sorts-of-flight-,,,,have-a-think-about-what-you-say-and-show-some-respect,,,,and-if-risk-concerns-you-that-much-dont-get-out-of-bed-MATE-you-might-slip-in-the-shower,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

A non-flying passenger's expectation of what constitutes a "high danger high risk adventure" is markedly different to a trained and experienced aerobatic pilot's vision of what constitutes a "high danger high risk adventure". I have taken people flying aerobatics, and to them a loop and a barrel roll was the most unbelievably scary crazy death defying stunt they could ever have imagined. I've literally had them screaming their lungs out going over the top of a loop and back down the other side. For me, this is the simplest and most boring manoeuvre I could ever do!

 

"Pushing the envelope" indeed, but from whose perspective? Yours? Or theirs?

 

I've read about some of the evidence presented to the coroner regarding this accident. It is extremely disturbing both on the medical front, and the professional aviation front, I can assure you. Be careful who you idolise.

 

 

[Yenn]

I knew Barry and he was a good pilot, with the emphasis on was. After his hangar door incident I believe he lost his licence and later regained a PPL. he employed a manager or possibly a chief pilot, who allegedly knew he was flying as if he was a commercial pilot. That was not legal and I assume it is only the fact that he is not here to face up to CASA that has stopped CASA prosecuting him.

 

 

[bull]

Be careful who you idolise.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hey-DUTCH-no-idoliseing-about-it-mate-yes-he-[moderated]-up-but-listen-are-you-perfect-MATE-are-we-gunna-read-about-your-slip-one-day-hope-not-but-it-can-happen-and-no-matter-how-good-you-think-you-are-you,ll-be-just-along-for-the-ride-till-the-crunch-so-leave-of-and-let-the-courts-do-thier-thing-the-man-died-just-be-respectful-of-the-person-not-what-he-did-or-did,nt-do-AND-I-dont-idolise-him-HE-was-a-MATE-do-you-have-any-of-them-dutch------------

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

Ouch - things are getting nasty!

 

 

[bull]

G,day-jab-no-not-nasty--mate-just-looking-out-for-a-friend-no-matter-what-he-did-,,,,,,,but-aviation-will-always-be-that-way-and-has-been-since-the-wright-bros-someone-will-always-think-thier-better-than-others-,,until-they-make-a-mistake......like-loops-and-barrel-rolls--------boring-ah-arent-you-supposed-to-be-fully-in-charge-and-alert-in-aerbatics-ah-bored-ah-and-than-shit-happens-are-you-gunna-be-on-top-of-your-game-to-save-the-day-,boring-ah

 

 

[poteroo]

This thread is developing a distinctly partisan direction. Time to lock up! Let the Coroner do his duty and we'll discuss it all then.

 

happy days,

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Bull-,,,,,,,,,does-your-spacebar-not-work...,,,,,,,,,,,,???????

 

 

[turboplanner]

One piece of information from the June 24 Australian Story was that ATSB have decided to investigate ALL GA crashes from now on.

 

I couldn't find a press release on the ATSB site.

 

Since RAA is obligated by CASA to investigate every accident but can't do it because it doesn't have the powers, maybe this is a good to to ask ATSB to investigate ALL aircraft crashes, on the same basis as they do for GA.