Why Was This Man Allowed To Fly. Interesting news article

[flyerme]

Sorry for my ignorence but just wondering if Aerobatic/GA planes have place cards/warning cards? you know! like "persons fly in this aircraft at their own risk"? I know it dosn,t really matter when it comes down to it but was just curious?

 

sorry back to topic

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

One piece of information from the June 24 Australian Story was that ATSB have decided to investigate ALL GA crashes from now on....

I might be wrong about this but my ears pricked up when this was mentioned and I thought they said that ATSB had undertaken to investigate all commercial GA crashes that involved a fatality? And wouldn't that mean no change at all since they already do that ...?

 

 

[turboplanner]

It was only on momentarily, we'll have to wait for reality, but it wouldn't make sense to pretend there was a change, or the detractor gang would be on them like a starving pack of dogs after a pork chop..

 

 

[Aldo]

Bull

 

My sympathy to you (and all people who have lost a family member in this accident) as you have lost a mate but,

 

This is all about AIRMANSHIP a quality which Barry rarely displayed throughout his career, no-one is disputing his ability as a pilot and an exceptional one at that, but the difference between good stick and throttle pilots and good pilots is airmanship.

 

I learnt to fly about 30 years ago and even back then I had a number of people warn me about learning to fly at Hemples as it was a cowboy outfit but I was also told that if you want to learn aero's that is where you should go (after you have learnt to fly elsewhere).

 

If we as pilots continue to ignore the airmanship qualities required to be pilots we will continue to read about dead pilots and passengers in the news and on forums like this one for a long time to come.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Be careful who you idolise.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Hey-DUTCH-no-idoliseing-about-it-mate-yes-he-[moderated]-up-but-listen-are-you-perfect-MATE-are-we-gunna-read-about-your-slip-one-day-hope-not-but-it-can-happen-and-no-matter-how-good-you-think-you-are-you,ll-be-just-along-for-the-ride-till-the-crunch-so-leave-of-and-let-the-courts-do-thier-thing-the-man-died-just-be-respectful-of-the-person-not-what-he-did-or-did,nt-do-AND-I-dont-idolise-him-HE-was-a-MATE-do-you-have-any-of-them-dutch------------

No I'm not perfect, Bull. Far from it. I'm happy to tell anyone about all the slip-ups I've made, any time. Yes I have mates, including dead ones who screwed up. Just off the top of my head, seven who have died in military aviation accidents. Try attending 3 funerals on 3 consecutive days, Bull, then see how you feel. You get pretty worn down by the 3rd one, I can tell you.

 

But I'm not here to start telling you war stories about risky aviation, Bull. That was from times gone by.

 

I'm here on an accidents thread to implore people to be responsible and use a bit of common sense.

 

 

[Teckair]

It is hard to understand how anyone could think it is acceptable for a pilot who knows he suffers from black outs to take a passenger flying and end up killing them both. It is not just a slip up but rather a premeditated and completely irresponsible act, about as safe as playing Russian Roulette.

 

 

[Yenn]

It is also hard to understand how a pilot could take people for aerobatics and have the, screaming. Why scare someone when you are doing what you enjoy. Give them time to take it all in nd they may even become happy to do aerobatics, but if you scare them they are going to think very little of you.

 

 

[facthunter]

If your passengers are scared you either have the wrong passenger(s) or the wrong pilot. Frightening the hell out of people takes some kind of narcistic bent. You want them to fly again.

 

Regarding the Hempel crash. You don't even know if there was something wrong with the plane. Nev

 

 

[Ultralights]

thats what i was thinking, apparently ATSB didnt investigate the aircraft, so how can they rule out that it wasnt an aircraft issue, i have heard rumours around that the aircraft was susceptible to FOD issues with the exposed control lines under the cockpit. or even if the passenger was the cause.. i have personally seen one accident that almost destroyed an aircraft when a pax grabbed the stick in freight and didnt let go until impact.

 

 

[John G]

One piece of information from the June 24 Australian Story was that ATSB have decided to investigate ALL GA crashes from now on.I couldn't find a press release on the ATSB site.

Since RAA is obligated by CASA to investigate every accident but can't do it because it doesn't have the powers, maybe this is a good to to ask ATSB to investigate ALL aircraft crashes, on the same basis as they do for GA.

I Have actually written to the Ra-Aus Board suggesting exactly that! I believe that ATSB is shirking their responsibility and hiding behind budgetary constraints when all air accidents/crashes should be thoroughly investigated as they are in England by the AAIB and in the US by the NTSB, where even lowly ultralight aircraft crashes are investigated.

 

I had the temerity to suggest that the Board should get out of the weeds of accident investigation and concentrate on strategic issues, such as whether the ATSB should investigate all our accidents and got howled down for my efforts.

 

 

[turboplanner]

S

 

I Have actually written to the Ra-Aus Board suggesting exactly that! I believe that ATSB is shirking their responsibility and hiding behind budgetary constraints when all air accidents/crashes should be thoroughly investigated as they are in England by the AAIB and in the US by the NTSB, where even lowly ultralight aircraft crashes are investigated. I had the temerity to suggest that the Board should get out of the weeds of accident investigation and concentrate on strategic issues, such as whether the ATSB should investigate all our accidents and got howled down for my efforts.

Sorry to hear that John, very disappointing

 

 

[Powerin]

I Have actually written to the Ra-Aus Board suggesting exactly that! I believe that ATSB is shirking their responsibility and hiding behind budgetary constraints when all air accidents/crashes should be thoroughly investigated as they are in England by the AAIB and in the US by the NTSB, where even lowly ultralight aircraft crashes are investigated.I had the temerity to suggest that the Board should get out of the weeds of accident investigation and concentrate on strategic issues, such as whether the ATSB should investigate all our accidents and got howled down for my efforts.

While I agree 100% it is hard to make a case to the powers that be to spend the money when RAAus pilots represent 0.05% of the population. It is a travesty that RAAus rejected the ATSB's recent offer to investigate our accidents for us.

 

 

[bull]

My-apologys-to-all-concerned-on-this-thread-especially-you-Dutch,you-are-by-far-more-involved-in-aviation-than-me,-and-your-concerns-for-aviation-safety-are-real-and-valid-and-my-condolences-for-your-lost-mates-my-heart-was-talking-before-my-brain-and-i-have-no-right-to-question-you-I,m-sorry-mate ...................and-yes-still-using-my-old-toshiba-with-terminal-tanimi-disease-sorry

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

thats what i was thinking, apparently ATSB didnt investigate the aircraft, so how can they rule out that it wasnt an aircraft issue, i have heard rumours around that the aircraft was susceptible to FOD issues with the exposed control lines under the cockpit. or even if the passenger was the cause.....

This was brought to my attention too, with this particular kind of aircraft.

 

I was at the Inglewood fly-in and one gentleman's preflight included walking along next to the tailcone banging the underside of it with his hand and listening carefully. I enquired what that was about and apparently a bunch of keys had fallen out of the rear seat pax/crew's pocket and on the next flight they had made their way to the lowest point which was directly under the rear control stick/bellcrank and they jammed the elevator control motion. IIRC there was a happy ending for that one, stick stirring shifted the keys I expect but it does make you wonder about the missing camera ...

 

 

[kgwilson]

all air accidents/crashes should be thoroughly investigated as they are in England by the AAIB and in the US by the NTSB, where even lowly ultralight aircraft crashes are investigated.

And as they all are (GA/RA) in NZ where they seem to find the time and budget to carry it out from a population of only 4.5 million.

 

 

[dazza 38]

The NZCAA suspect that a screwdriver (FOD) possibly caused the Yak 52 crash near Fielding in NZ. Also a few years before that incident a similar accident happened in the UK. I would like to know where the camera ended up as well.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I don't think the camera was suggested as missing, just suggested I think by the pilot's sister, that the passenger had been allowed to carry a small camera then she just looked at the camera with a meaningful/hopeful look.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

I thought they said that the pax was made to empty his pockets but was allowed to take the (small) camera but that it must remain attached to his wrist at all times - and when the bodies were retrieved there was no camera ...?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I could be wrong HITC

 

 

[Teckair]

Camera or no camera to me post 31 still applies.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I thought they said that the pax was made to empty his pockets but was allowed to take the (small) camera but that it must remain attached to his wrist at all times - and when the bodies were retrieved there was no camera ...?

Yup, that is how I remember it. Barry's sister asked the question ? "Where is the camera ? It has never been found.

 

 

[bull]

My-point-exactly----------------all-to-quick-to-condenm-the-man,,yes-he-should-not-have-been-flying-at-all-but-do-we-know-what-really-happened,NO-just-media-hype-and-speculation,---And-getting-back-to-medical-conditions-and-flying,,,How-many-of-our-fantastic-plastic-brigade-who-converted-to-RAA-would-pass-a-casa-medical-Hmmmm--- ..............................................Avery-good-Question-to-throw-in-the-fire,,,,,,,??????>>?Even-though-you-qualify-for-a-drivers-licence----you-are-still-flying-1/2-tonne-of-resonably-high-speed-aircraft-AND-carrying-PASSENGERS-usually-close-relatives-or-friends-some-with-flight-exp-----SOME-without------Have-a-good-think-about-THAT--before-you-condemn-Barry-without-conclusive-investigated-evidence-of-what-really-caused-this-ACCIDENT

 

 

[turboplanner]

We will have the opportunity to follow the medical trail in the current public liability case; as far as I'm aware that's the only operating arena at the moment, other than the Coroner announcing findings in August (which are separate to the PL case).

 

 

[Teckair]

My-point-exactly----------------all-to-quick-to-condenm-the-man,,yes-he-should-not-have-been-flying-at-all-but-do-we-know-what-really-happened,NO-just-media-hype-and-speculation,---And-getting-back-to-medical-conditions-and-flying,,,How-many-of-our-fantastic-plastic-brigade-who-converted-to-RAA-would-pass-a-casa-medical-Hmmmm--- ..............................................Avery-good-Question-to-throw-in-the-fire,,,,,,,??????>>?Even-though-you-qualify-for-a-drivers-licence----you-are-still-flying-1/2-tonne-of-resonably-high-speed-aircraft-AND-carrying-PASSENGERS-usually-close-relatives-or-friends-some-with-flight-exp-----SOME-without------Have-a-good-think-about-THAT--before-you-condemn-Barry-without-conclusive-investigated-evidence-of-what-really-caused-this-ACCIDENT

I would hate to think I was sharing the road with someone who suffers from blackouts, hopefully they would not pass the drivers license test and therefore not have a RAAus license.

 

 

[bull]

BEware-mate,i-personally-know-several-truck-drivers-who-should-not-be-anywhere-near-a-truck-,but-are-driving-roadtrains-at-100-kmph-coming-at-you-,,,and-they-have-medical-issues-that-could-cause-them-to-black-out/lose-motor-funtion-etc,,,,,,,,,,dont-be-fooled-by-thinking,oh-they-check-them-out-hard-tests-and-stuff-,ther-world-is-full-of-corrupt-peoplke-mate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I-personally-know-one-docf-that-will-give-you-a-medical-clearance-to-drive-b,doubles-on-mine-sites-[personal-experiance]