The SkyRaider Kitplane. Interesting affordable LSA ?

[Gforce]

I`m always interested in low cost, safe rugged kitplanes and the SkyRaider looks really interesting for a fun fly plane. Looks cheap too ! $14k for a 400 hour pre welded kit. Add an HKS 700 ( 60 Hp ) 4 stoke aero engine, paint and basic panel and 30-35k could have you flying.

 

http://skyraiderllc.com/main.htm

 

 

 

[Gforce]

Out of Interest and since I will be offering a RTF Single seat aircraft to the Ozi market, Do people feel the above is a very affordable package ?

 

 

[Tex]

I don't know much about the HKS but I think if you could do it for under 50k AUD with a 912 it would be a very affordable package. Just dreaming.... but a tandem seating option would be good for the odd pax flight but more importantly usable space for kit for going places. I like the look of this plane but wonder how much you would really end up spending adding skins and paint and the rest? at 14k USD + skins, paint gauges, engine, transport and the GST you would not get any change from 65k AUD I reckon.

 

If you could offer something like the Super Skyraider for under 50k AUD RTF I think you would be in a good market. The gas strut shockies design of the Super STOL Highlander would be a great design inclusion.

 

 

[Gforce]

You could do it for under 40k AUD with a Rotax 912 80 hp. This IS a tandem design but to be honest, it looks more like a 1 + 1 so you can throw you mate/wife in the back for a fun sigh seeing flight but would not want to go far IMHO. As far as I can tell, it includes EVERYTHING less paint, panel and power train. The 91280 is about 17k I think. HKS is less than 10k so you could build one with the Rotax 912 for 40k AUD.

 

 

[Tex]

Less than 40kAUD with a 912 RTF in Australia.... That is some cheap aviation! Wonder how the wing performs, vices etc. Hard to find any recent feedback on that online.

 

Yes I know the Skyradier is 1 + 1: like it... was just just talking about your offering (single seat RTF).

 

 

[Gforce]

Same - I know this history of the company ( Highlander designer used to work there I believe ) but there is not THAT much on youtube. This is a pretty good over view of the kit. My offering will hopefully some day be offered as a two seater. Lets get the single seat to market first !

 

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

HKS is less than 10k ...

Last time I spoke with HKS the E model was over $14K and the T was about the same as the 912 80hp. I see the E model on UK site now for GBP 8133 = AUD 13.333. The MZs still look like best value for a cheaper option.

 

Does your earlier comment amount to a hint that the Flynano is going to be around $30-35K? That's probably stretching it for a single seater. US research into the price folks are willing to spend on a recreational machine is reflected in the price of snowmobiles, PWCs, go karts etc and the answer is $18K so 30-35 might be stretching it, even for a plane, if a reasonable number of sales is sought.

 

Ah - just had a look at their site again, it's priced at 35K Euros now, ex-factory, that's AUD$50K for a single seater - ouch! And I see they're now offering sales although they haven't even got a proven prototype yet, doesn't bode well IMHO. It's well into summer over there now and they should have been flying since the thaw according to their earlier announcements - no news releases on their site for more than 12 months - have you heard anything?

 

 

[Gforce]

Is that right ? Does not seem fair considering the HKS 700e is offered at $9500 USD and is build " next door " in japan. http://www.bushwhackerair.com/hksspecs.html

 

Re Flynano - Yes, the lower Euro has indeed increased the price. That is of course completly out of our control. As a currency trader, I can tell you that no one has a clear crystal ball when it comes to FX predictions. Having said that, it will be priced close to the Euro amount advertised by the factory. Yes, I have lots more information about the V2 and can tell you it is indeed progressing well. When relevant, I will make an official product launch but that will be after my one arrives here and is on the register. I would love to tell more but as the dealer, must respect the wishes of the factory as they somewhat jumped the gun with less than spectacular results. That said, it is a very revolutionary concept and I always anticipated at least one POC and prototype test bed would be needed - What I can say is 40 have been pre ordered. Interest in the Ozi market has been very pleasing indeed but I will not except any direct orders until it is a proven concept. I was never of fan of Jim Beedee`s sell now... worry later techniques ! I would never replicate that poor business model.

 

 

[paulh]

The Skyraider is a nice looking little aircraft and the price seems very good, from the video and their web site photos the construction looks similar to an aeropup ie evolved from a kitfox type but without the flaperons. The old single seat Supapup doesn't seem to be popular and the Aeropup seems to be struggling for sales, not sure what the reason is, maybe Oz manufacturing costs are just too high, and GFC effects just won't go away.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

the name is completely naff..........

 

 

[Greg Spiers]

Had an email from the D-Motor agent the other day, after I made an enquiry about pricing. This is a 92.5 HP 4 cyl, flat head (yep I said flat head) motor, fuel injected, ECU managed, direct drive engine that, funnily enough is designed to bolt straight on where you take the Jabiru engine off. The guys designing this engine (they also have a 135HP six) are thinking outside the square, worth a look if you LSA guys haven't already. It is a good looking thing, light small and maxes out at 3,000 rpm. The agent/distributor is Adam Nagorski, 0403485400, based in Melb, D-Motor Australia P/L www.d-motor.com.au Email; [email protected]. Have a look it's surprising. I was looking at this engine for a Gyro. Oh and by the way it's $4,000 cheaper than the equivalent Rotax injected engine.

 

G

 

 

[planesmaker]

Only $4000 cheaper? Not much in the big scheme of things especially for a new design without years of proof testing. I am sure it could well be a good engine but only $4000 cheaper and a lot less parts going into it? Give me a well proven engine or make it really worth my while to try a new engine. Tom

 

 

[winsor68]

I reckon people are reading the market incorrectly here... If Recreational Flying is to become a truly popular past time/hobby for the larger audience including younger people (rather then only the self funded retiree/highly paid executive/miner etc etc as most are who fly now...lets face it) then these sort of machines if certified for hire from schools could have a real future... I reckon what you want is a sub $40K fly away price to make them economical to hire at say $80 per hour...single seat and suitable for fledgling pilots ...20 hours dual should see most students in a single seater doing a circuits and building experience ... I think there is a huge untapped market out there waiting to be exploited...

 

 

[Greg Spiers]

Planesmaker, ofcourse you are right, it's a scale of economies. There are heaps of 'proven' power plants out there that have numerous design and technology changes over years of 'proving' but still fail with monotonous regularity, old and new, hence the AD system. I guess I could have been clearer in my motivation for mentioning it. I put it out there cause it could be inovative (if old technology can be called that) but that it has, for me some benefits if, as you say, proven. I have always struggled with running engines at 5,000 rpm when you only need 2200 to 2700 depending on what whizzy thing ya have, burning valuable energy turning a reduction drive when you might not need to. Call me old fashioned. I commend the inovative and dedicated engine designer/ builder who have admirably filled the gap from heavy GA engines to those requirements for LSA, ultralight and what ever other flying machine comes into the ' light' catagory and made them 'relatively' reliable, could we ask for more?? If I had my way I would be running a Lycoming engine in everything I had or dreamed of having but, that's just me and totally impractical I just always feel good with one up front or behind me. The 0-233 is getting there but still too heavy. Having said that, a $20,000 engine is rediculous for an aircraft that you might want to keep under $35,000 and $4,000 is a lot of money if you are building a 'cheaper' machine, it may mean all your coverings or avionics. It's a pitty when something cost an arm and a leg if it has 'aviation' stamped on it. I work in the health industry and it is the same.

 

Flying should be for everyone and not subject to greed and extorsion but oh hell we're all human!!

 

G

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

The specs on the website claim approx 320kg payload for the skyraider? Not bad. I can take all the camping gear as it'll likely be a single seater ;)

 

 

[planesmaker]

I reckon people are reading the market incorrectly here... If Recreational Flying is to become a truly popular past time/hobby for the larger audience including younger people (rather then only the self funded retiree/highly paid executive/miner etc etc as most are who fly now...lets face it) then these sort of machines if certified for hire from schools could have a real future... I reckon what you want is a sub $40K fly away price to make them economical to hire at say $80 per hour...single seat and suitable for fledgling pilots ...20 hours dual should see most students in a single seater doing a circuits and building experience ... I think there is a huge untapped market out there waiting to be exploited...

I agree with you 100%. I plan to build a single seat aircraft for less than $10,000 using all new materials. Tom

 

 

[DGL Fox]

How about the Frontier it is a side by side config ....

 

David

 

 

[winsor68]

How about the SiroccoNG....4 stroke too ...http://www.acla.eu/aircraft.html

 

 

[paulh]

How about the SiroccoNG....4 stroke too ...http://www.acla.eu/aircraft.html

I think that this sort of ultralight aircraft the Sirocco is far more likely to appeal to the younger person than the cub style steel tube and fabric covered aircraft. The cub style is great with a lot of benefits and we all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but they just don't look modern or cool compared to other toys and recreational vehicles eg dirt bikes, quads, jet skis etc. It would be the rare younger person that wants to go back in time.

I wonder if the US rules that apparently don't require a certified welder for airframes are one reason why the steel tube types are so popular there?

 

 

[facthunter]

Tandem has a bit going for it. Your vision out both sides is the same., and you don't feel as cramped . The other is more sociable and preferred by most I suppose. Nev

 

 

[Gforce]

I like flying Tandem as well but only if the back seat has duel controls... my Dads Rv-8 does not so the control freak in me gets a little restless out back !

 

 

[dazza 38]

I dunno about having duel controls in the back, front seater may get shot in the head , but having dual controls is nice.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

[facthunter]

Like a Manuel gearbox. Made in Mexico? Nev

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I dunno about having duel controls in the back, front seater may get shot in the head , but having dual controls is nice.

Only in America but I go along with your theory. Image trying to control the plane with a panicking maniac on the rear control stick.