Gyrocopter down Western Qld

[dazza 38]

Hi guys, I heard on the radio that a Gyro crash yesterday afternoon west of Gladstone (I think). The 30 year old Pilot is in a critical condition.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Best wishes for him and I hope he recovers .

 

 

[Russ]

unlicensed, unreg, yes,................training ???

 

hope he pulls through Ok.

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Russ, are you saying he was unlicensed and unregistered ?

 

 

[Russ]

so i'm told ( grapevine )..............ASRA folks will be onto it as should be. Any incidences involving gyros they take reeel serious. A number of gyro incidences over the yrs are from unlicensed / unreg / untrained pilots.............this scinareo has to stop.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't know HOW you would do this. Not being in the system makes it hard to be aware till something adverse happens. Nev

 

 

[104chocks]

""so i'm told ( grapevine )..............ASRA folks will be onto it as should be. Any incidences involving gyros they take reeel serious. A number of gyro incidences over the yrs are from unlicensed / unreg / untrained pilots.............this scinareo has to stop.""

 

I wish the pilot a speedy recovery. Unfortunately ASRA do not publish any summary of accidents in the public domain, no accident stats / trends/ cuases are public, it's a data void.

 

My own listing is here

 

http://gyrocopteraccidentsinaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

All you don't see a whole lot of stats on helicopters either. Fact is statistically they are about three time more accident prone than your average fixed wing, and I would imagine Gyros would be the same or worse for the hours flown...............Maj...

 

 

[104chocks]

Hi Maj

 

ATSB do publish reports into accidents/incidents with helicopters - for example two such reports are listed on the recent link below

 

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2013/ab-2013-088.aspx

 

ATSB ceased publishing gyrocopter accident reports in 1997 ( pre 1997 reports can still be found on ATSB ) when CASA passed responsibility for gyros to ASRA - in the intervening 17 years ASRA has not put any such summary reports into the public domain - that's a information black out for sure - worrying.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

[rick-p]

The accident must have happened as we passed overhead on descent at about 1,500 feet to my strip some 3 miles south of the crash site,

 

It happened coming up to last light but there was still good visibility at the time. I understand that it struck power lines and the pilot depending on which one of 2 was flying it was I believe a member of our club. Not long after we landed some 20 minutes or so blue flashing lights were seen in that direction and later an ambulance went up the road towards the crash site.

 

The pilot was later flown out to Rocky because his injuries were to serious to be treated here in the local hospital.

 

Nothing at this time is really clear as to what actually happened basically, all is as usual, just speculation.

 

He was still critical this morning but haven't heard anymore since.

 

Regardless of the ins and outs of it all, we just hope that he pulls through.

 

 

[Guest GraemeM]

Hi Maj

ATSB do publish reports into accidents/incidents with helicopters - for example two such reports are listed on the recent link below

 

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2013/ab-2013-088.aspx

 

ATSB ceased publishing gyrocopter accident reports in 1997 ( pre 1997 reports can still be found on ATSB ) when CASA passed responsibility for gyros to ASRA - in the intervening 17 years ASRA has not put any such summary reports into the public domain - that's a information black out for sure - worrying.

 

Regards

 

Steve

Just out of curiosity, would RAA be required to investigate and report on an ultralight accident if the pilot did not have a licence (therefor not a member of RAA) and the ultralight was unregister and the idiot did not kill himself or injure another person?

 

Graeme.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The State Police do the investigation, and often call in RAA for expert advice on an RAA incident, so that's an interesting question.

 

My first reaction would be no, but if it met the specification and they felt RAA had an obligation link that would be interesting.

 

Many years ago I had a problem with a rebel splinter organization where a spectator made an official safety complaint to another body.

 

Our Association had no connection but we were dragged into it.

 

We were powerless to control the splinter group, so since it involved intoxicated racing with a good potential for the inevitable fatal, I went to the local police and asked the officer to go in, address the drivers in the pits before the racing, and turf out any who had alcohol or were obviously intoxicated.

 

He said "I don't have the power to do that, but I'll see what can be done"

 

I phoned the spectator, a mother of young children who had also been distressed about the constant flow of four letter words over the public address commentary, and told her what we had done.

 

The following month I received a very emotional thank you from a tearful mother, saying the meeting had been totally cleaned up with no bad language, no drunken fights between competitors, and good racing; it was again a family event.

 

So I phoned the local cop to pass on her thanks, and said "What the hell did you do!?"

 

He said "Well I went into the pits before the races started, called all the drivers together, and told them I'd heard there was a lot of drinking, and although I didn't have the power to kick anyone out, the Act did say I was authorised to breathalyse the drivers of an Motor Vehicles, and it didn't say they had to be registered, so I would probably watch the racing now and again and check a few people. I spoke to a few others and then was called away to an accident for most of the day, but managed to get back before the meeting finished. There was only one exit so I breathalysed all the bastards"

 

So a bit of lateral thinking can solve some of these problems.

 

In today's era it's a bit more complicated because of differing opinions on who might have the duty of care. I wouldn't be hanging my hat on the fact that a registration hadn't been renewed.

 

 

 

[hendonguy]

On radio news today reported pilot stable , also said its believed that he was blind by the sun and flew into power lines and crashed to the ground , soon are take off

 

 

[bexrbetter]

On radio news today reported pilot stable ,

Good news, thanks.

 

 

[rick-p]

He is recovering and moving around now, he is much better. He is licenced, trained and the gyro is registered. The setting sun was hidden on the horizon and broke out from behind cloud and blinded him on take off, power lines got in the road, unfortunate but always around the corner to bite us if not completely situational aware.

 

 

[104chocks]

Hi Rick_P

 

Thanks for the update about the pilot, good to hear he is making progress.

 

Interesting to hear about the licence, training and registration - this is at odds with what Graeme the ASRA Board Member suggested in his earlier post

 

""Just out of curiosity, would RAA be required to investigate and report on an ultralight accident if the pilot did not have a licence (therefor not a member of RAA) and the ultralight was unregister and the idiot did not kill himself or injure another person?

 

Graeme.""

 

A factual summary report would be good.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

http://gyrocopteraccidentsinaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Rick_PThanks for the update about the pilot, good to hear he is making progress.

 

Interesting to hear about the licence, training and registration - this is at odds with what Graeme the ASRA Board Member suggested in his earlier post

 

""Just out of curiosity, would RAA be required to investigate and report on an ultralight accident if the pilot did not have a licence (therefor not a member of RAA) and the ultralight was unregister and the idiot did not kill himself or injure another person?

 

Graeme.""

 

A factual summary report would be good.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

http://gyrocopteraccidentsinaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/

No, The RAA would not investigate if the pilot didn't have a Certificate and wasn't a member of the RAA. There was a Ultralight bingle in NSW a while back were the pilot didn't have a Pilot Cert, and wasn't a member of the RAA.The aircraft wasn't registered either. As far as the RAA was concerned. It was not their problem as he wasn't a member. IIRC

PS- RAA can not issue licences, they can only issue certificates .

 

 

[Russ]

Regrettably there were 2 gyro mishaps within the space of a week or 2, i'm positively sure the FNQ was indeed unlicenced/unreg/untrained, my grapevine source appears to have mistaken that for the incident we are talking about here.

 

Hope this helps clear matters............russ

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

No, The RAA would not investigate if the pilot didn't have a Certificate and wasn't a member of the RAA. There was a Ultralight bingle in NSW a while back were the pilot didn't have a Pilot Cert, and wasn't a member of the RAA.The aircraft wasn't registered either. As far as the RAA was concerned. It was not their problem as he wasn't a member. IIRCPS- RAA can not issue licences, they can only issue certificates .

Thats what I'd expect. RAAus registers and manages pilots and aircraft that comply with the exemptions that are issued to us. anything else belongs to CASA......personally if I was the unregistered/unlicensed pilot I'd be hoping RAAus dealt with it....nobody in RAAus can gaol me.....CASA on the otherhand....

 

Andy

 

 

[104chocks]

Hi Russ

 

""Regrettably there were 2 gyro mishaps within the space of a week or 2, i'm positively sure the FNQ was indeed unlicenced/unreg/untrained, my grapevine source appears to have mistaken that for the incident we are talking about here.

 

Hope this helps clear matters............russ""

 

Can you add any more brief details of the two incidents you refer too?

 

I'm aware of the following but maybe you know of another

 

28th June near Dakenba - the incident at the start of this thread - gyro type unknown

 

16th June at Gunnedah, NSW - Xenon emergency landing during take off - media reports refer to a "cable malfunction".

 

Maybe neither of the above involved an "unlicenced/unreg/untrained" -was there a third incident

 

Any clarity or factual or additional information you can add would be welcome - thank you.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

http://gyrocopteraccidentsinaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/

 

 

[Russ]

sorry pal, grapevine info is unreliable as shown here.......let's wait for the facts.

 

 

[104chocks]

""......let's wait for the facts.""

 

Russ I suspect it will be a very very long wait as ASRA have published no incident / accident summary data in the public domain since taking over this aspect from ATSB in 96/97.

 

Brief news reports and forum dialogue is about as good as it gets.

 

A recent gyro incident summary can be found here

 

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/april_2013.cfm

 

For Raaus fans a number of recent light /sport / UL / micro incident reports can be found here ( Shadow, CT2, Quik, Jabiru etc )

 

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/may_2013.cfm

 

Begs the question why no dissemination down under.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

[Russ]

Steve.....every 1/4 a very detailed report is published ( incidence report ) this is very, very detailed, all asra members get that report every 3 mths....guaranteed.

 

EVERY incidence that involves INJURY is fully investigated by qualified staff, asra are unashamedly relentless on "the why's".....and regular workshops are held to educate/train pilots to higher and higher levals of skills/knowledge etc. These workshops are held whenever a group of pilots get together......where ever in Oz, a rep from asra will attend.

 

Asra as well holds refresher meets for all instructors, at no cost to instructors, they attend from all parts of Oz. CASA reps also attend, further bringing instructors knowledge to the present.

 

Why.......the above "reports" don't get "published out there ".........as you say...........is not my call...........but they are openly available to ANY MEMBER.........so join up,

 

I have for yrs, tried and tried, to get the 1/4erly members magazine onto newsagencies shelves, but costs for such a small membership makes that unviable. I can only keep wishing.

 

Any perception out there ( as you ), that asra is a closed shop........is so wrong, it really is.....( $$$$$ is the problem.......lack of ) Small membership ( 5.....600 ) attracts small govt grants, and the ever increasing workload is done by volunteers. Funds increase would solve many problems, able to pay 1 or 2 to do the day to day stuff would relieve volunteers to actually have a life.

 

So join up............what you seek is all there.......warts and all...........russ

 

 

[104chocks]

Russ - excellent - all they have to do is "cut n paste" a brief summary ( ie I'm not suggesting publishing a multi page doc - a synopsis - facts and conclusion would be fine ) and post it on the public side of the ASRA forum - it is really not a hard task at all.

 

There is no reason it can't be done.

 

If they could do that say twice a year ( ie covering the previous six months ) then anybody in Australia, anybody interested in aviation, anybody considering getting into gyros or anybody anywhere in a gyro community around the World could read that data. At the moment it's Member only - ie no public dissemination.

 

Accident/incident summary data is shared in other countries, no membership is required for flight safety related data - it's a public service.

 

Try this as a template ( from little New Zealand ) - hopefully this is within the capability of ASRA.

 

http://www.caa.govt.nz/Script/Accident_Details.asp?Oc=12/4682

 

Here's a summary from Australia - take a look - neat brief and concise and published in the public domain for all to read

 

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1990/aair/aair199003135.aspx

 

The downside is that it was published in 1990 - ATSB published such reports up to 1996/1997 - since then the subject of gyrocopter accident summary reports has travelled back in the information Dark Ages - is this progress - is it fit for the 21st C.

 

Similar reports are put into the public domain in the UK, USA, South Africa, Poland, Germany, Canada, Spain, France but oddly not in Australia - be great if you could join in too.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

[Bentrotor]

Hi Rick_PThanks for the update about the pilot, good to hear he is making progress.

 

Interesting to hear about the licence, training and registration - this is at odds with what Graeme the ASRA Board Member suggested in his earlier post

 

""Just out of curiosity, would RAA be required to investigate and report on an ultralight accident if the pilot did not have a licence (therefor not a member of RAA) and the ultralight was unregister and the idiot did not kill himself or injure another person?

 

Graeme.""

 

A factual summary report would be good.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

http://gyrocopteraccidentsinaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/

What did Graeme the ASRA Board Member suggest?

I thought he was responding to other posts.