RAAus Executive Resignations

[rankamateur]

Well put turboplanner. You took the time to do your own research and made the effort to talk to our now ex-President directly. If only more members of this Forum would do the same, there might be less chest-beating and mass-debating and more "What can we do to help" *disclaimer. No Forum Members integrity or sense of self were harmed in the making of this comment

Well where is the point of the constitution then, if executive member after executive member, can disregard it, using the same old excuses of emergency necessity, dealing with issues that they haven't dealt with in a timely manner. The constitution is there to protect the interests of all members, the owners of the association, those who aspire to be members of the executive would do well to work with in it, or work to change it, if they deem it to be in need of change, but continuously disregarding it is just showing contempt for the membership!

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

So that's a reason to sit back and let others control your life pm?I'd say probably 9,980 have thought the way you did, while all the time the lines were open to get facts rather than disinformation.

I felt strongly enough that I got my Facts (much like Turboplanner did) straight from the source, rather than relying on Forums, Emails etc - As Abraham Lincoln once said - "the trouble with quotes on the Internet is they're hard to verify".

 

I spoke to my Board Member, asked the question(s) I wanted answered, got the answers, and was satisfied the action our ex-President took was both legal, and neccessary. Now, with our Executive gone, I feel it's time for the most vocal members on here to "put up or shut up" and show us, the general membership, the way forward - after all - those most vocal members must have the answers. Time to put Forum words into Action and lead RA-Aus out of the hangar and into the air... can you do it fellas?? And i'm saying this in the nicest way - sans vitriol or anger - I just genuinely want to see those Vocal people come up with the goods they promised they could deliver!

 

And finally... hopefully there will be no more personal insults on here. [removed*]

 

Safe Flying fellow Aviators

 

*there are limits - Mod xox

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Well where is the point of the constitution then, if executive member after executive member, can disregard, using the same old excuses of emergency necessity, dealing with issues that they haven't dealt with in a timely manner. The constitution is there to protect the interests of all members, the owners of the association, those who aspire to be members of the executive would do well to work with in it, or work to change it, if they deem it to be in need of change, but continuously disregarding it is just showing contempt for the membership!

If you did check the Facts, you would, like a lot of us, realise the Course of Action that our ex-President took was indeed neccessary. And as such Emergency Action, was not in contravention of constitutional requirements. Then again, I guess we could get 20 Lawyers in the same room, ask them the same questions, and get 20 different answers. - we could certainly get 20 Forum Members in the same Room and get 20 different opinions, all of which I would respect the right to have, even if different to mine.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

So that's a reason to sit back and let others control your life pm?I'd say probably 9,980 have thought the way you did, while all the time the lines were open to get facts rather than disinformation.

I think I'll ring Tony Abbot and see how the campaign's going. Nothing like getting it for the horses mouth. I encourage all Australians to do likewise, I'm sure he has the time.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

I think I'll ring Tony Abbot and see how the campaign's going. Nothing like getting it for the horses mouth. I encourage all Australians to do likewise, I'm sure he has the time.

Vastly different situations, so the comparison is kinda pointless, however I respect your right to post it

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

I felt strongly enough that I got my Facts (much like Turboplanner did) straight from the source, rather than relying on Forums, Emails etc - As Abraham Lincoln once said - "the trouble with quotes on the Internet is they're hard to verify".I spoke to my Board Member, asked the question(s) I wanted answered, got the answers, and was satisfied the action our ex-President took was both legal, and neccessary. Now, with our Executive gone, I feel it's time for the most vocal members on here to "put up or shut up" and show us, the general membership, the way forward - after all - those most vocal members must have the answers. Time to put Forum words into Action and lead RA-Aus out of the hangar and into the air... can you do it fellas?? And i'm saying this in the nicest way - sans vitriol or anger - I just genuinely want to see those Vocal people come up with the goods they promised they could deliver!

 

And finally... hopefully there will be no more personal insults on here. [removed*]

 

Safe Flying fellow Aviators

 

*there are limits - Mod xox

Finally I got moderated, and it was for giving myself a hard time!! Is there an award available??

 

 

[AVOCET]

One man's illusion is another man's reality. It all depends upon your perspective, so I hope we're not going to get into a slugging match over this one.

Remember ; The ox is slow , but the earth is patient.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Finally I got moderated, and it was for giving myself a hard time!! Is there an award available??

Good Afternoon SAJabiruflyer

 

You are a breath of fresh air, to read your "moderated out" post. I can imagine what was in it as I am 100% with you regarding what ED did.

 

Myles had the task of implimenting the SMS and the vocal mob made it too hard.

 

The vocal mob have a chance to see how good they are - ED gone - Middo gone, they have a chance to form the executive committee and tomorrow (Monday) is their day to start hitting runs and very quickly I may add.

 

I did phone three board members and did ask the questions.

 

A few times I was asked questions on another thread and I refrained from answering as the answer would have been moderated out.

 

I have had the information for a while and I would not put it all out on the thread, I was dreading how the vocal members would twist it and where would that end up.

 

If you need more PM me.

 

Regards,

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[sain]

I think I'll ring Tony Abbot and see how the campaign's going. Nothing like getting it for the horses mouth. I encourage all Australians to do likewise, I'm sure he has the time.

Feel free - his electorate office # is: (02) 9977 6411 and his Parliament House # is: (02) 6277 4022

You may not be able to speak to him personally, but a representative of his should be able to answer any questions you may have.

 

*edit* btw, i have no association with his office - just encouraging all australian citizens to talk to their elected representatives. Would be nice if we could do that will all of our elected represantitives, and its really sad when you can't even hold people up to the low standard that is the australian federal parliament.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

..........Myles had the task of implimenting the SMS and the vocal mob made it too hard.The vocal mob have a chance to see how good they are - ED gone -

Keith you are really getting ahead of yourself....

 

Myles never had the job....The board (not the vocal mob here) simply didn't endorse Ed's decision, or the way it was made. The board members who didn't support Ed were the majority....The vocal mob here is, but for one who posts purely fact based and less frequently than the rest of us Mob, not members of the board and that's why we're vocal here!

 

Trying to suggest that Myles had the role and somehow we here reversed that is simply ridiculous. We did point out to all board members why we felt what was done was wrong, but equally you guys who supported Ed's approach did the reverse.

 

Please don't ever try and get people to believe that Myles had the role. Myles had an agreement with Ed, that the board didn't agree was Ed's unilateral decision to make and as such the agreement was between Ed the person and Myles not RAAus and Myles. No amount of you posting will change that fact!

 

Wishing it was so, doesn't make it so.

 

As SA Jab has posted we are all entitled to our views, but if you view is IMHO wrong in fact, then I'm going to tell you why I believe you are wrong and the facts as I know them on which that determination is made.

 

CASA have been aware of the exact set of circumstances that have occurred everyday since the day that they met with Ed. I'd be prepared to bet you a carton of XXXX that the end of the world from an RAAus perspective wont happen tomorrow or indeed the next day.....Are we on?

 

My belief is based on my position that CASA really doesn't want RAAus to fail and wants us to be the preeminent RAO. We can only do that by 1) following the rules, our own and CASA's. 2) Meeting our obligations with CASA as agreed in the Deed. 3) build the necessary systems and processes in house to enable us to achieve 1) and 2) and stop trying to do this with recycling bottle refunds from Fri afternoon drinks...It takes serious money to set up, but will save us SERIOUS MONEY when its in place....4) stop treating CASA as the enemy.......They have a job to do, as do police, but most law abiding people don't hate the police, or avoid talking to them no matter what.....

 

Andy

 

 

[Spriteah]

I felt strongly enough that I got my Facts (much like Turboplanner did) straight from the source, rather than relying on Forums, Emails etc - As Abraham Lincoln once said - "the trouble with quotes on the Internet is they're hard to verify".I spoke to my Board Member, asked the question(s) I wanted answered, got the answers, and was satisfied the action our ex-President took was both legal, and neccessary. Now, with our Executive gone, I feel it's time for the most vocal members on here to "put up or shut up" and show us, the general membership, the way forward - after all - those most vocal members must have the answers. Time to put Forum words into Action and lead RA-Aus out of the hangar and into the air... can you do it fellas?? And i'm saying this in the nicest way - sans vitriol or anger - I just genuinely want to see those Vocal people come up with the goods they promised they could deliver!

 

And finally... hopefully there will be no more personal insults on here. [removed*]

 

Safe Flying fellow Aviators

 

*there are limits - Mod xox

SA and Turbo did you speak to other board members? Or just the one that made the decisions? Do you not think board members also spoke to the Ex-President and were not satisfied? Is it possible you have only one side of the story?

 

Wasn't it suggested we would be shut down weeks ago, hence the emergency? Are we shut down? Will it happen tomorrow? No.

 

These forums are sometimes incorrectly spooked by the doomsday prepers. You encourage members to get the facts themselves however I suspect you do not have them.

 

If we run the organisation correctly, comply with CASA requirements, follow the constitution we should be around forever. If we don't do the right thing we wont be!

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

Victorian State Representative Ra-Aus

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

SA and Turbo did you speak to other board members? Or just the one that made the decisions? Do you not think board members also spoke to the Ex-President and were not satisfied? Is it possible you have only one side of the story?Wasn't it suggested we would be shut down weeks ago, hence the emergency? Are we shut down? Will it happen tomorrow? No.

 

These forums are sometimes incorrectly spooked by the doomsday prepers. You encourage members to get the facts themselves however I suspect you do not have them.

 

If we run the organisation correctly, comply with CASA requirements, follow the constitution we should be around forever. If we don't do the right thing we wont be!

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

Victorian State Representative Ra-Aus

Ji, thanks for your post. I will get back to you with a proper response in due course.

 

Kind Regards

 

SA

 

 

[dodo]

Ji, thanks for your post. I will get back to you with a proper response in due course.Kind Regards

 

SA

Was the question really that complicated?

Why not just answer with your straightforward opinion?

 

dodo

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Was the question really that complicated?Why not just answer with your straightforward opinion?

dodo

Even Ghandi said "a man has to sleep"

 

 

[dodo]

Even Ghandi said "a man has to sleep"

True. But why answer with "I'll get back to you"?

It sounds like "I need to take inztruction on this qvestion" ( preferably spoken in a Russian accent!)

 

dodo

 

 

[turboplanner]

Sprite,

 

This thread is turning into a repeat of another thread, where in exasperation I said I was out of this discussion when Ed left.

 

Same applies here.

 

However, I have no confidence in what you've been saying, I didn't just join in the football type barracking and speak to the participants only, I went for the documents.

 

I didn't, like some others, poke my nose into the RAA employees in Canberra, I didn't, like others speak to Lee Ungermann at CASA;I got my own facts without any of the maybe's and embellishments I've been reading on this forum.

 

Some people did suggest RAA would be shut down weeks ago; I have not suggested RAA will be shut down tomorrow, or ever.

 

What I have suggested is that CASA do have the power to ground pilots after a series of warnings as due process, until a safety system which was a requirement at least from 2010 is established and operating. This would financially affect Flight Training Facilities, Aircraft Importers and aircraft owners, this time 3,500 of them, and well as ancillary employees.

 

I have suggested what happened with the series of warnings then sanctions regarding non-complying aircraft registrations is worth looking at as a precedent.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Turb's

 

My suggestion that RAAus was finished a few weeks ago was based on an inability of our current broker to renew a substantial chunk of our insurance portfolio. Without that cover we could not have continued. I was wrong in that at literally 23:59 after supposedly weeks of looking he was able to place the business.

 

At the time I posted we had only a couple of days to run until the existing policy, which the then current insurers had told us they would not renew, was indeed extended by them for a 1 month extension to allow more looking by the broker. That they extended for a month was entirely at their determination. We were then as close to the edge as I have seen us. I think we have pulled back a bit, but as you say, its not so far from where we are to the edge and a misstep or two and we are in serious trouble.

 

That we survived back then in my view is more about good luck than good management.

 

As to your point about people vs documents....They are like both parts of 2 part epoxy. We will never be shutdown by document alone, it will always be a human decision in the end. As you have rightly pointed out, that decision may well vest in someone well above those that I have discussed the issues with and as such what Im told may only be the story as they understand it, not their superiors...... Only time will tell.

 

The point about us discussing things with RAAus employees........its our association.......if we are not told what is occuring by the board and I dont mean that in terms of a 1 on 1 briefing but rather a proper disclosure, then how the hell are we supposed to find out what is occuring. If things in general were travelling Ok, and there were no crisis' then perhaps the suggestion that what we are doing is somehow wrong might indeed get of the ground, but today such a suggestion is well in excess of MTOW

 

Andy

 

 

[Captain]

SA and Turbo did you speak to other board members? Or just the one that made the decisions? Do you not think board members also spoke to the Ex-President and were not satisfied? Is it possible you have only one side of the story?Wasn't it suggested we would be shut down weeks ago, hence the emergency? Are we shut down? Will it happen tomorrow? No.

 

These forums are sometimes incorrectly spooked by the doomsday prepers. You encourage members to get the facts themselves however I suspect you do not have them.

 

If we run the organisation correctly, comply with CASA requirements, follow the constitution we should be around forever. If we don't do the right thing we wont be!

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock.

 

Victorian State Representative Ra-Aus

To the SAJabiruFryer

 

You received the above serious and considered response from an existing Board Member and you rated it as "FUNNY"?

 

This very much devalues your contributions to this thread and shows your responses as trite & shallow, in my opinion.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[turboplanner]

If we've now moved to ad hoc judging of "Likes", you're right Captain, I didn't see anything remotely funny about that post.

 

However, I think SAJ might have enough information that eventually he will not be judged either trite or shallow.

 

 

[facthunter]

I have noticed a few times where the "FUNNY" ICON is used disparagingly. If it is not followed by an explanation, Then it's entirely an abuse . This argument here is descending into the privileged who have the "good oil", ( according to some) and the rest who are still without the knowledge needed to have a valid point of view.

 

I have made a few inquiries and I think the machinery is in place to proceed with fixing the issue. Nev

 

 

[REastwood]

Or, as the "Funny" icon is right next to the "like" icon, it is entirely possible that a slip of the mouse was the issue and it appears you cannot undo the selection.

 

Why do people always assume the worst of others?

 

 

[facthunter]

That is not the point I wish to make at all. Why are YOU assuming that I assume the worst of others? Nev

 

 

[Riley]

Or, as the "Funny" icon is right next to the "like" icon, it is entirely possible that a slip of the mouse was the issue and it appears you cannot undo the selection.Why do people always assume the worst of others?

Were it a simple (and irreversible) slip of the mouse, would not an immediate repost rectify the un-intended?

 

Why do people always assume I'm too stupid not to recognize the obvious?

 

 

[REastwood]

To the SAJabiruFryerYou received the above serious and considered response from an existing Board Member and you rated it as "FUNNY"?

 

This very much devalues your contributions to this thread and shows your responses as trite & shallow, in my opinion.

 

Regards Geoff

Captain states that SAJ's contributions are now devalued and are trite & Shallow.

 

I have noticed a few times where the "FUNNY" ICON is used disparagingly. If it is not followed by an explanation, Then it's entirely an abuse .

Facthunter states that if not followed by an explanation, then it is abuse (and SAJ's post was not followed by an explanation).

 

That is not the point I wish to make at all. Why are YOU assuming that I assume the worst of others? Nev

My point was that the "Funny" icon could have been clicked by mistake, both you and captain assumed it wasn't and therefor thought badly of SAJ. Of course my last comment was a generalisation and was more rhetorical than accusatory.

 

 

[David Isaac]

I think I'll ring Tony Abbot and see how the campaign's going. Nothing like getting it for the horses mouth. I encourage all Australians to do likewise, I'm sure he has the time.

I think the point that PMC is making is that it should be obvious to us all that none of the Board members would have the personal time available to field calls from their share of 10,000 members at any time.

So to solve that obvious problem it would behove the Board to communicate transparently via the RA Aus web site or dare I suggest a member forum (which will never happen).

 

So simply telling everyone to call their reps is an absurd suggestion. The problem has always been the Board DOES NOT communicate with the members in any way shape or form that is satisfactory. At the EGM in February that was supposed to all change ?????