J230 engine failure weipa

[Patrick Normoyle]

Oh darn, my stupid finger hit the post button again. Please ignore the above post if you find it offensive.

 

The truth shall set you free.

 

 

[XP503]

I'll come out and say it I dont care too much what anyone thinks. Jabiru engines are hand grenades and all jabiru owners are unwitting members of Jabirus R+D department. Such a shame as they are otherwise great ac and could be so much better.

 

 

[facthunter]

So you are prepared to upset people who fly and own these things. David? Is Hand grenade not a fairly emotive description and somewhat useless to any one seeking out any facts... Do you want to see these engines grounded? Also are you involved with looking inside these things or do you just wish to make an opinion on stories as you read them?

 

I'm not involved with the factory in any way but have flown a few Jabiru's and would continue to do so provided they were serviced well. When an engine stops, the plane doesn't fall out of the sky. The are also plenty of other makes that would be more likely to fail. I would fly real vintage aircraft where the engines had life between overhaul of less than 100 hours, and feel a great satisfaction inso doing. I ride powerful motorcycles on the road, where the antics of others expose me to much more risk of death than flying in a jabiru. Nev

 

 

[Zibi]

Going back to the story itself (I won't go into jabiru engines), did anyone else notice the J-430 on the cowling in that picture?

 

Also are you allowed to use a bolly prop on a Jabiru? I though it was only the wooden one and one new composite that Jabiru is working on.

 

 

[biggles]

MIDAIR EMERGENCY: A Jabiru light aircraft, the type Bruce Knowles was flying when forced to make an emergency landing.

 

A PILOT has told of the moment he made an emergency landing after the engine cut out at 1500 feet in "no man's land" in far north Queensland.

 

Bruce Knowles said he had only 90 seconds to land the Jabiru aircraft after it lost power 15 minutes after taking off from Weipa on Tuesday.

 

``We felt a vibration at about 1500 feet, a couple of seconds later the motor went out," the 60-year-old Victorian pilot said.

 

``We had total engine failure. The prop wasn't spinning at all.

 

"We planned a descent into the wind ahead of us."

 

With only seconds to make a decision, the pilot of 38 years and his passenger Ivan Nunn grabbed a map to find land as they flew over wetlands.

 

The pair scrapped their original location because it was too dangerous but found a piece of land, surrounded by a swamp, and attempted the landing at an outstation in an area between Aurukun and Coen.

 

"There were no other options at all," Mr Knowles said.

 

"There was no power in the aircraft and it wasn't responding.

 

"You monitor air speed, you monitor height, then you take a descent.

 

"We were actually flying into the wind. Providing you have the right air speed, the plane will keep flying.

 

"Luckily the place we landed, which we found out afterwards, was an old airfield."

 

The pair used an iPad to alert rescuers of their location and, after spending the night inside the plane, were found yesterday morning by police and rangers who had travelled to Wathineen outstation.

 

They travelled about 30km on four-wheel-drive motorcycles because the area was hard to access.

 

The old landing strip was covered in two feet of grass.

 

"We were very lucky," said Mr Knowles, a pilot of more than 35 years.

 

"I've never experienced anything like this. We were lucky that it happened when it did."

 

Just a few points regarding the accuracy of newspaper reports .

 

The aircraft depicted in the report is not the aircraft in the story, which in itself is not unusual . The aircraft in question was in fact a VH registered J430

 

I am also led to believe that the engine only stopped when the throttle was closed prior to landing .

 

Mmm , nice of Telstra to provide an IPad reception at ground level in the middle of nowhere . Perhaps it is more feasible that the pilot radioed an overflying aircraft from the Jab radio .

 

Yes Zibi , believe or not but the aircraft did fly out , all by itself a day or so later.

 

Bob

 

 

[Yenn]

Oh what joy for the jab bashers.

 

Why was the pilot flying at 1500' over poor country, if it really was poor country. It is normally considered good airmanship to be able to glide to a landing site, 1500' doesn't give very much glide range. Of course this came from a journalist, so it could be miles from the truth.

 

Why would an iPad be necessary, they would have had a PLB or ELT to be legal in a 2 seater. No problem locating them.

 

 

[Ultralights]

2 things i find worrying, 1st, is

 

Jabiru refused to tell us what the cause was.

this is the cause of almost all the negativity about their engines. what are they doing to prevent thurther issues? are they doing anything? do they just throw it all, sweep it under the rug, and get another engine out to you, with no research into probable causes? how many SB's (service bulletins)are issued by Jabiru? being a Rotax engine owner, i regularly get SB's from Rotax to prevent issues, and to rectify faults, improvements etc.. do jabiru do this with the research they have done on their engines?

2ndly,

 

The pair used an iPad to alert rescuers of their location and, after spending the night inside the plane

SARTIME? was anyone holding a flight note with destination and ETA? how long before anyone went looking for them if the forced landing didnt go to plan? or both became incapacitated in some way? and waiting the night before alerting someone?

 

hmmm

 

 

[XP503]

I wouldn't say I'm a Jab basher......but you can call me whatever haha - I've done a lot of hours in jabs and they are an ...OK aircraft in the grand scheme of things, but anyone who has spent enough time around a hangar or flying club knows they have some serious drawbacks which spoils what could be a fantastic aircraft, an aircraft that in fact - will be, (once all the R+D - crashes/failures/modifiactions) are carried out by the R+D department. (the owners)

 

I'm a Jabiru fan, I want to see them succeed, they are awesome, but why dance around the elephant in the room because you own one.

 

Take a little browse at this page by experienced Pilot Carl Holden.

 

http://www.jabirucrash.com/

 

 

[biggles5128]

As CASA is the overall authority, I say it again, if they felt there was an issue that needs addressing, they would act, CASA would have all the facts make no mistake.... and before anyone suggests it.. No one would be getting a back hand payment. IMO

 

 

[Ultralights]

casa cant act unless there is data... something that doesnt come out of jabiru in regards to engine issues. the only way that will happen jabiru operators submit reports to casa on the issues they are having.. something else that many dont do.. but of you do report everything, you seam to attract unwanted attention.. its not just Raaus operators, but GA and airlines as well.

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

I doubt there are many VH registered aircraft with Jab engines so CASA wouldn't take an interest, and I'm fairly sure those VH registered aircraft will be in the experimental group, so again CASA won't show much interest.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

There used to be regular Jab engine entry's in the crash comic, but now that it's online who the hell reads that anymore !...................Maj...

 

 

[rick-p]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. -Linda

So true, it amazes me, the reporter couldn't even get the pilot's years of flying experience right. In one breath it was 38yrs and then the next 35yrs.

 

They had taken off 15 minutes earlier, great rate of climb over tiger country and were at 1500ft with 90 secs to react, 1,000ft a minute rate of sink, must have been side slipping! But they had time to read a map change their mind on a landing site, make a cup of coffee have a toasted sandwich and watch 60 minutes.

 

I'm not saying these guys didn't face a big problem and enter the change of undies zone but come on it really is, more likely on the part of the reporter, because I don't like news paper reporters , a lot of poetic licence taken.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Not what was quoted by the pilot to the Courier Mail? http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/pilot-tells-of-jabiru-emergency-landing-after-takeoff-from-weipa/story-fnihsrf2-1226662748272

Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story ;

 

In my case aug 11 FRONT PAGE , the whole front page , Broken Hill news paper

 

A whole page of bull / .... about what actually hapened , an exaggeration of my injuries , how far I walked , an a speele on how dangerous ultralights , a photo of the accident ( that no one took? )

 

And to top it off , no one had asked me any thing !

 

News papers are like politics on forums

 

FOSh

 

 

 

[kgwilson]

Enough gentlemen. If you want to be insulting to one another or about products leave and go to PPrune.

 

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[cherk]

Going back to the story itself (I won't go into jabiru engines), did anyone else notice the J-430 on the cowling in that picture?Also are you allowed to use a bolly prop on a Jabiru? I though it was only the wooden one and one new composite that Jabiru is working on.

I'm not going to get into the wrestling match here...or anywhere for that matter, but to shed some light on your question; I was at Bolly this day and saw the Jabiru decalled props which they have been supplying for "some-time now"(sic). They are pretty impressive with a hub root about twice the diameter of standard Bolly/Warp/etc.

 

I think if you had a prop strike it'd rip the engine off the firewall! (don't know if that's a good thing...don't ask me how I know) They make a very fine piece of kit and are excellent people to deal with. (...plug over) . And if the rego was'nt in a bl**dy pile somewhere in Fyshwick I'd be tempted!

 

 

[reggie]

Same shite over and over again, no wonder Ian's out

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I'll come out and say it I dont care too much what anyone thinks. Jabiru engines are hand grenades and all jabiru owners are unwitting members of Jabirus R+D department. Such a shame as they are otherwise great ac and could be so much better.

Having done a hell of a lot of engine investigation over recent years, I disagree with you.

 

There are no more terminal "KABOOM!"s inflight for a Jab than any other brand, they do have a number of annoying and unwanted issues all curable, but not likely the type of incidents that actually make them fall out of the sky.

 

 

[XP503]

Apologies if I have upset anyone. I can't believe the Avocet crashed :-((((( was that the one with the back doors? What a shame I hope they rebuild. What happened?

 

 

[AVOCET]

Apologies if I have upset anyone. I can't believe the Avocet crashed :-((((( was that the one with the back doors? What a shame I hope they rebuild. What happened?

Check out post : avocet flys again ,

 

It's got the " true " story

 

Cheers

 

 

[ianboag]

Dunno about the "no more ....". That aside, we have to admit that they seem to wear out young. Just look at the number for sale that have had serious engine work sub-500 hours. If it's all operator error then the engine is a bit fragile. Also the factory does not inspire confidence with some of their fixes eg the through-bolt and flywheel bolt issues. We offered some suggestions (which were ignored) on both points.

I could (unfortunately) quote (too many) cases that I have seen but that would just get into finger pointing and rant. This thread seems to have enough of that :-)

 

FWIW I went to a flyin on the weekend. The 912 in a Rans stopped dead in the circuit and the plane got moderately crumpled on landing. See http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/8854099/Pilot-golfers-eye-birdies-instead-of-air-shots and http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/8862585/Pilots-survive-testing-crash-landing. Noone was hurt and the plane just had a (seriously) bent undercart. If it had been a car going into a ditch noone would have bothered writing anything about it ....

[biggles]

Oh what joy for the jab bashers.Why was the pilot flying at 1500' over poor country, if it really was poor country. It is normally considered good airmanship to be able to glide to a landing site, 1500' doesn't give very much glide range. Of course this came from a journalist, so it could be miles from the truth.

Why would an iPad be necessary, they would have had a PLB or ELT to be legal in a 2 seater. No problem locating them.

Good point Yenn . Its been reported that this GA pilot did a significant portion of the trip at 1500' . He was probably using his IPad as an ' aid to navigation ', as many of us do . Not sure whether he activated his ELT , assuming he carried one .

 

Bob

 

 

[biggles]

Having done a hell of a lot of engine investigation over recent years, I disagree with you.There are no more terminal "KABOOM!"s inflight for a Jab than any other brand, they do have a number of annoying and unwanted issues all curable, but not likely the type of incidents that actually make them fall out of the sky.

Interesting post Bex. Surprised you haven't heard from those over on the 'dark side' though !

 

Bob

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Avocet...Damn that looks like a big bike in the back...I guess you had a plan B......ride home......How heavy was the Bike?

 

Andy

 

 

[sain]

The avocet flys again link is here, for anybody else wanting to read it:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/avocet-flys-again.63465/