Crosswind Landings

[Guest garrett81]

Hi Guys,

 

Just a quick question about crosswind landings.

 

i am currently doing my raa cert and am up to circuits and landings. it is unfortunate but the runway which i fly from usually has a crosswind (well anytime i go out there).

 

when landing into a Heavy crosswind either from the right or left at what height should i kick the tail back to land straight on to the runway. i usually kick it out at windsock height as i start to flare. but i still have to keep some aieleron in to keep the wing down on the prevailing wind side and inevitably bring the plane in on one main and the let the other touch before bringing the nose down quickly.

 

maybe i am slow but i just cant get the knack of it. is this correct i just feel that i am doing an incorrect landing by bringing it down on one wheel initially. i also feel that this is unavoidable being that if i was to allow the plane to become to level i am risking flipping by allowing wind to catch the under side of the wing on the side of the prevailing wind or drifting to close to the side of the runway.

 

i am using the example of a recent flight where the crosswind was reaching the upper limits of the aircrafts capabilities guessing about 14-15 kts but i had to use full left rudder. and a fair whack of left aileron.

 

just like to hear anybodys tips on how they approach the same type of landing.

 

 

[facthunter]

X/W/L's

 

This subject has come up from time to time on this forum and some one may give you a reference, garrett81. There's a fair bit in it ,and if you are encountering limiting crosswinds (solo)? you don't want to have much confusion about technique. I wouldn't want to get involved, without knowing a little more about your hours & experience and what your instructor has told you to do. N...

 

 

[vk3auu]

Cross wind landings

 

If you adopt the upwind wing low technique, you will already be lined up with the centreline on your approach and you won't have to make that decision. All you have to do then, is flare at the appropriate height, plant the upwind leg, then gently lower the downwind leg and finally the nose wheel (or the tail if you are in a real aeroplane). That was how I learned in a Thruster and I had to learn how to do it to go solo because the late afternoon sea breeze was always at 45 degrees to one or the other of the available runways.

 

Incidentally, with the low wing technique, you always know that you have enough rudder authority before you are committed to continuing the landing as the cross wind generally gets a bit less as you get closer to the ground.

 

If your instructor isn't happy with that, find another instructor.

 

David

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

Hi Guys,Just a quick question about crosswind landings.

 

when landing into a Heavy crosswind either from the right or left at what height should i kick the tail back to land straight on to the runway. i usually kick it out at windsock height as i start to flare. but i still have to keep some aieleron in to keep the wing down on the prevailing wind side and inevitably bring the plane in on one main and the let the other touch before bringing the nose down quickly.

 

maybe i am slow but i just cant get the knack of it. is this correct i just feel that i am doing an incorrect landing by bringing it down on one wheel initially. i also feel that this is unavoidable being that if i was to allow the plane to become to level i am risking flipping by allowing wind to catch the under side of the wing on the side of the prevailing wind or drifting to close to the side of the runway.

 

i am using the example of a recent flight where the crosswind was reaching the upper limits of the aircrafts capabilities guessing about 14-15 kts but i had to use full left rudder. and a fair whack of left aileron.

 

just like to hear anybodys tips on how they approach the same type of landing.

Hi Garrett,

 

What you are doing is perfectly correct. If you try and touchdown on both wheels, you will inevitably start drifting off the runway.

 

Now let me start preaching!

 

While the aircraft is in the air it doesn't matter if you're drifting sideways. However, when you come to place it onto the ground during landing, it's very important to have no, or as little side drift as possible, especially in a tail dragger. We need to have the aircraft aligned with the runway so that the wheels will track straight ahead once they touch the ground, and we need as little side drift as possible. If the aircraft is drifting sideways too much as it touches the ground, you will either damage the undercarriage, tip up onto the downwind wingtip, or the aircraft will veer off track.

 

The only way to have an aircraft with its wheels aligned down the runway, and no sideways drift, is to have the aircraft sideslipping into the wind at the same rate that the wind is drifting the aircraft sideways. ie: In a left crosswind, the aircraft is slipping to the left at the same rate as the wind is pushing it to the right. (Note that some people call this a forward slip)

 

To make the aircraft slip to the left while still staying aligned with the runway, we lower the into wind wing (in this case the left wing), while pressing on the right rudder to prevent the nose yawing off to the left. You lower the wing as much as is needed to stop the aircraft drifting off the centre line, while using the corresponding amount off rudder to keep the nose in line with the runway.

 

So, there are two methods to handle a crosswind landing.

 

1) The crab method. (Your method)

 

Point the nose of the plane off into the wind all the way down final, then as you begin the flare, transition into the sideslip described above. Touch down on the into wind wheel, then lower the high wing down till the other wheel touches, then release back pressure to smoothly lower the nose wheel. Once the nose wheel is down, push the stick (or control wheel) back into the wind untill you've parked the plane.

 

The difficulty with this method is to time the transition into a sideslip at the same time as smoothly flaring into the hold off, then judging the right amount to lower the into-wind wing. If you are flying a low wing aircraft with a low set undercarriage, this method may be the only one possible.

 

2) The wing low (or sideslip) method.

 

Whenever possible, this is my prefered method. All we do is this. Roll onto final and align the aircraft with the runway. Lower the into-wind wing while at the same time pressing opposit rudder so that the nose stays aligned with the runway. If the aircraft is drifting downwind, lower the wing a bit more. If you start drifting upwind, raise the wing back up a bit. The whole time you are doing this, your feet are simply keeping the nose aligned with the runway.

 

Keep doing this all the way down into the flare. Keep the wing down during the flare and land on the upwind wheel. Lower the other wheel, lower the nose, and then put the stick back into the wind.

 

Notice that in both methods the end is the same. In method 2 you carry a sideslip right down final into the flare and touch down. In method 1 you transition to the sideslip as you commence the flare.

 

If your are using method 2, and you find that you end up with full rudder but still cannot keep the aircraft aligned with the runway, then be aware that the crosswind is beyond the limits of the aircraft. Go find another place to land that is more into the wind.

 

Here endeth the lesson!

 

Bruce

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

btw Garrett,

 

Talk to your instructor and follow what he recommends for the aircraft you're flying, the conditions at your field, and your level of experience.

 

 

[Ben Longden]

And to confuse you even more.... once you have the aircraft in the correct attidude, depending on the approach selected (wing down, crab or combination) as you come in over the fence, just remember to keep your eyes on the end of the runway...

 

Ben

 

 

[Guest Ken deVos]

1) The crab method. (Your method)

Point the nose .....

 

then release back pressure to smoothly lower the nose wheel. Once the nose wheel is down, push the stick (or control wheel) back into the wind until you've parked the plane...

 

2) The wing low (or sideslip) method.

 

.... Keep the wing down during the flare and land on the upwind wheel. Lower the other wheel, lower the nose, and then put the stick back into the wind....

Hi Bruce,

 

In both methods, would you also suggest centering the rudder just before the nose wheel touches down to prevent the aircraft veering off the runway? I suppose this is only necessary if the nose wheel is directly coupled to the rudder.

 

 

[Bruce Robbins]

Hi Bruce,In both methods, would you also suggest centering the rudder just before the nose wheel touches down to prevent the aircraft veering off the runway? I suppose this is only necessary if the nose wheel is directly coupled to the rudder.

Would sure save an exciting moment wouldn't it!

 

In practice I've found that once you have both wheels down, the rudder (and therefore coupled nosewheel) will be in the right place automatically. ie: Centred or slightly into wind, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to be thinking about where you have it pointed.

 

Bruce

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Garrett,

 

try this thread (with the caveat about us not being instructors always uppermost in your mind):

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10742

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest garrett81]

Thanks guys,

 

i use the sideslip method and that is what i am being taught, it was good to hear it in different words though. i do what my instructor says and he is great but i only get to fly once every month or so and i wanted to be prepared for my next lesson. so thanks for your messages. i have my own sequence worked out from what i am being taught and it works (just a little hair raising) for this beginner!

 

im fine with everything but landings. from the moment of turning onto final from base it all goes a little pair shaped. i get back on track on base and the rest is ok, well i will just get out their and practice till i get the hang of it. its all fun.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

G'day Garrett,

 

now this is a question that you didn't ask...and whilst I'm not n instructor I am competent to comment on this:

 

If you are only flying once a month then you are doing yourself a disservice. I obviously don't know your circumstances, however, what I do know is the experience of me and many others learning.

 

I started out doing 1 lesson a week. I found that when I got back next week I spent half the lesson getting back to where I was last time and then the other half moving a little bit forward. It was pretty hopeless. Initially it was too mentally exhausting to do more (wimp I know). But the breakthrough came when I did 2 lessons a day and later 4 in a weekend. It was that process that generated the momentum that got me to be well and truly learning and developing. I'm watching my daughter go through the same thing now.

 

I reckon the end result is better and the cost overall is lower if you do at least 1 and preferably more lessons a week. I also understand that your circumstances may not allow that.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Yenn]

The correct time to kick the plane straight with rudder is just before the wheels touch. Easy to say but difficult to judge. If you kick straight at windsock height you have that height to lose while you are drifting sideways, so the lower the better. When you have little experience it is better to do as your instructor says rather than change methods on your own, and discuss your problems with the instructor.

 

These of us with more experience may think we have the best solutions, but you have an instructor who is watching to keep you safe and who also knows your abilities. Either trust him or change.

 

 

[Guest garrett81]

Thanks mike.

 

 

[Guest garrett81]

Yenn

 

no intentions of changing things on my own, simply wanted to reinforce what i had learnt, think i might avoid theese questions on here in the future