Popular V1 doodlebug myths debunked.....!!

[Guest Maj Millard]

Currently reading "The Wild Winds" which gives a day by day, and month by month account of the very successfull Kiwi 486th fighter squadron operating in Britian during WW2. Personnel in this squadron were almost exclusively Kiwi supplemented later with the odd Aussie and a few English ex battle of Britian pilots.

 

They were formed operating early model Hawker Hurricanes, then converted to the new Hawker Typhoons, and then to the Hawker Tempest, which was a development of the Typhoon with a thinner wing and another 50 kts of speed, which allowed them to match the speed of the Mf 109s and FW 190s. Both Typhoon and Tempest were equipped with four very effective cannons, two in each wing .

 

Even though equipped with less than front- line aircraft like the Spitfire, they ended up being one of the highest scoring fighter squadrons in the conflict. The end score attributed to the squadron was 81.5 aircraft destroyed, 5 Probabily and 22 damaged. 241 V1 flying bombs were also destroyed.

 

They were very effective in destroying the V1 flying bombs, many headed for London. They quickly developed very effective techniques for destroying those flying bomb, after catching them in the Tempests.

 

The V1s flew at about 3000 ft at above 300 mph. They were designed and manufactured by Feisler, the same company that made the Feisler Storch. Against popular myth they did not fall to the ground after expending the on- board fuel, but instead were controlled by a small propellor on the nose. At a preset point (target) the propellor- operated mechanism deflected the small elevators downward, then 'diving' the bomb to a selected area. The pulse rocket then quit due to fuel being denied to the rocket by the angle. The NZ fighter pilots actually referred to them as 'divers'. Another myth that the books debunks is that most of the V1s were guided from their targets by having their wings "tipped" by the Tempest pilots. This may have occurred a few times initially, but then the Germans bobby trapped the flying bombs so that if they were "tipped" they would explode immediately, probabily destroying the aircraft also. This method was then actively discouraged.

 

Most V1s were destroyed by the cannon fire from the Typhoons or Tempests. Another interesting method they found effective was to fly past the V1 at speed, which they were capable of doing, and then fly in front, with the turbulance from the fighter tipping the V1 off its preset course, and sending it too the ground harmlessly.

 

A fascinating read so far and I'm only half way through !!............Maj....

 

 

[old man emu]

Speaking of newly released books, I've just bought Fromelles - The Final Chapters which deals with the identification of the Australian infantry soldiers killed during the Battle of Fromelles on 16 July 1916. It's not an aviation book, but puts the finishing touches to the story of the Battle of Fromelles and the discovery of a mass grave containing the remains of our troops. The story of the search was initially told in Fromelles by Patrick Lindsay published in 2007.

 

MM please post the author's name and who published "The Wild Winds", and the name of the bookstore you bought it from.

 

OME

 

 

[DCM]

Another book that I found very interesting is called Wings on my sleeves by Captain Eric Brown it describes his career as a test pilot for the RAF in the closing stages of WW2 he flew a lot of the captured aircraft

 

 

[poteroo]

The spectacle of the Japanese again in denial - this time at the International Court of Justice in The Hague - but over whaling and science - prompted me to have a 2nd read of At War With the Wind by David Sears.

 

It's a gory tale of the entire concept and execution of the WW2 Kamikaze campaign against US shipping in the Pacific. The US shipping losses were staggering, and there was the familiar loss of morale that we now see regarding the Middle East suicide bomber situation. If the Japanese hadn't run out of fuel, and Nagasaki and Hiroshima not intervened - who knows what the costs may have been? Some other historians and authors I've read suggest that the kamikaze was a prime reason the A-bomb was used, as well as to bluff the Russians. Who knows?

 

happier days,

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

?..Some other historians and authors I've read suggest that the kamikaze was a prime reason the A-bomb was used, as well as to bluff the Russians. Who knows?happier days,

American submarines (many operating out of Fremantle) played a major role in cutting off Japan's oil supply, so their aircraft were increasingly using alternatives like methanol.

 

One post-war Allied report found that despite the massive destruction by air raids, the Japanese had at least ten thousand aircraft available for Kamikase attacks on invasion forces. Many of these were crude, disposable platforms, but Japan also developed some of the best aircraft of the war. Many were sheltered in caves and bunkers, so could not easily be destroyed.

 

If you were Truman, would you have been prepared to lose another few hundred thousand men, or send in the Nukes?

 

 

[facthunter]

The debate will go on, but, for the God Emperor Hirohito, many would have suicided, as capture was the final degrading humiliation, making death preferable. One of the reasons the captured POW's were regarded with such distain by the Nipponese was this attitude. The question is more over the subsequent bombing after the original Hiroshima bomb. Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

Just picked up on eBay $14.00

 

UNDERSTANDING AND. FLYING

 

ULTRALIGHS BY FRANK C BAILEY

 

Early days flying in Australia when they were flying at 300 agl and the new regs alowing them to 500 ft .

 

There's an interesting chapter of teaching yourself to fly these , emagine the liability of publishing these instructions today !

 

Does anybody know where you could get a set of plans for something like the BI-RD ultralight ? I wouldn't mind having a go at building something like that , cheep flying .

 

Cheers Mike

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Speaking of newly released books, I've just bought Fromelles - The Final Chapters which deals with the identification of the Australian infantry soldiers killed during the Battle of Fromelles on 16 July 1916. It's not an aviation book, but puts the finishing touches to the story of the Battle of Fromelles and the discovery of a mass grave containing the remains of our troops. The story of the search was initially told in Fromelles by Patrick Lindsay published in 2007.MM please post the author's name and who published "The Wild Winds", and the name of the bookstore you bought it from.

 

OME

OME, The book was lent to me by a friend who knows one of the still surviving 486 pilots. Keith Theile was living in Bundaberg but is now in a home in Sydney. He came to 486 after tours in Halifax and Lancaster bombers, but had always wanted to fly fighters, he was highly decorated for his efforts, and settled in Australia after the war.

 

Author of the book is Paul Sortehaug, and publisher appears to be the Otago University Print. It is a large book packed with many superb black and white wartime photos...some of the best I've seen, and there aren't any boring pages.................Maj...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Front and back covers....

 

 

 

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

It's time we dropped another A bomb.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Just picked up on eBay $14.00 UNDERSTANDING AND. FLYING

ULTRALIGHS BY FRANK C BAILEY

 

Early days flying in Australia when they were flying at 300 agl and the new regs alowing them to 500 ft .

 

There's an interesting chapter of teaching yourself to fly these , emagine the liability of publishing these instructions today !

 

Does anybody know where you could get a set of plans for something like the BI-RD ultralight ? I wouldn't mind having a go at building something like that , cheep flying .

 

Cheers Mike

Mike , the B1RD was factory built under the roof of Robertson Aircraft Company. Fairly simple machine really, and made to look a bit like a machine from a much earlier period. (1920s) They were well built, med performance for the time, but unfortunately powered by the Cayuna single cylinder, which was Probabily less reliable than the twin cylinder Cayuna which wasn't reliable at all !!....would be a good machine with a Rotax 503 on it ....Don't believe plans were ever offered, but one was listed for sale in the mag recently..............Maj......

 

 

[nong]

Our B1-RDs had the twin cylinder cuyuna UL2-02 donks and we remember them fondly as being easy to live with. One of the Cuyunas had deep gauging on the front cylinder as a result of the B1-RD spinning in and impacting the bitumen of Elizabeth Ave, at the entrance to Forest Hill Aerodrome. Didn't seem to worry it.

 

Teaching oneself to fly was common during the ultralight craze. It was achievable because of the aerodynamic, stability and control characteristics of machines like the B1-RD.

 

You ain't gunna pull it off in a Jabby!

 

The Powers and Bashforth B1-RD looked remarkably like the Santos Dumont Demoiselle of 1910.

 

 

[poteroo]

Black Sunday by Michael Claringbold, (2000), published by Aerothentic Publications,Box 5136, Kingston, ACT.

 

If you are ever thinking of a flight to PNG - then read this 119 page disaster story.

 

The US 5th Air Force lost 37 aircraft in one afternoon when they were returning from a bombing sortie on Hollandia,(now Jayapura), to their base at Nadzab, near Lae PNG. Not one Japanese bullet hole in any of them - just a series of very bad decisions which left non-IFR pilots, mostly using limited panel, to go through, or around - but definitely not over, a major weather system near Madang. It's of real interest that many of the survivors did it by 'scud-running' at low level but slower speeds. Those who had conserved their fuel, instead of horsing around as young pilots invariably did, were the ones who made it back. In the 60's, mapping experts discovered that many of the peaks and ranges in the area this disaster occurred,were in fact 1000 ft or more higher than the WW2 maps showed.

 

I was based in Madang, and travelled all through this region, (Saidor, Gusap,Annanberg,Bogia,Wewak) in the early 60's. It's not where you want to make a forced landing!

 

happy days,

 

 

[kgwilson]

Currently reading "The Wild Winds" which gives a day by day, and month by month account of the very successfull Kiwi 486th fighter squadron operating in Britian during WW2. Personnel in this squadron were almost exclusively Kiwi supplemented later with the odd Aussie and a few English ex battle of Britian pilots.A fascinating read so far and I'm only half way through !!............Maj....

The Kiwis always punched above their weight in aviation and conflicts, and although I am a Kiwi I cannot claim any thing other than pride in their achievements, starting with Richard Pearse, who in my opinion was the very first man to achieve controlled heavier than air flight although he did lose control and crashed into a gorse hedge row. I was born less than 30km from where this happened.

 

Air Marshall Keith Park another Kiwi and Anzac veteran from Gallipoli was responsible for the defence of London during the Battle of Britain. His trademark was to fly around the various airfield in his own Hurricane to keep in touch with the "Few". I am sure than in the face of the most severe adversity imaginable this must have had an enormous morale boosting effect on Britains defenders in 1940.

 

For some odd reason the fact that the NZ emblem is the flightless Kiwi, seems to inspire Kiwi aviators to show the world that this is a complete myth.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Well surprisingly I managed to finish the book tonight, as it was a serious read, but an absolute 'can't put down' !...I also have a lot of respect for the efforts and determination of all the Kiwi pilots who went through the squadron, and those non- kiwis, many quite notable figures like Wing Commander Bee Baumont who became a famous English Electric test pilot, later test flying the Canberra, Lightning, and even the cancelled TSR2.

 

Another pilot to join them towards the end was group Captain Johnny Johnson, battle of Britian ace with DSO and DFC both with bars. The Squadron also included the first to shot down a jet (Me 262) with a prop fighter, and the first to operate an allied jet over Germany (first Gloster Meteor).

 

After combating the V1 flying bomb menace, the squadron was sent to Holland and then occupied Germany where they encountered the latest 'long nosed FW190s, which were a match for the Tempests, but not a match for the Tempests four 20 mil cannons !!.........

 

Each page details combat encounters with various types of aircraft, and unfortunately the almost daily losses suffered that the squadrons experienced, of combat hardened pilots, either to German fighters, ground based low level flak, or to aircraft accidents caused by the often unreliable 2000 HP Napier Sabre engines. The Tempest was a large aircraft and did not take kindly to being dead-sticked, as the stall speed was high, and resulting ground contact speed very high, which injuried and even killed many pilots. Many others were lost after being captured after parachuting into enemy territory, then spending time in POW camps.

 

After the war came to an end the Squadron was sent to occupied Denmark, more symbolically than for combat duty which is where it was finally demobbed, with one of the lowest loss to kill rates of all fighter Squadrons. With 80 or so confirmed enemy aircraft destroyed, the squadron only lost five aircraft to enemy aircraft fire.

 

Post war the Tempest 2 was fitted with the Bristol Centauris radial engine and was further developed to finally become the Hawker Sea-fury, used in the later Korean conflict. Great read if you like your action full-on, and non-fiction.............Maj...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Some great photos from the book...there are many............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[metalman]

I read "Flak " a while back ,amazing stories! Now reading "The killing zone", a bit of a trawl through the statistics, hopefully it gets a bit more flow, going to have another read of "fate is the hunter " soon to.

 

 

[Neil_S]

I read "Flak " a while back ,amazing stories! Now reading "The killing zone", a bit of a trawl through the statistics, hopefully it gets a bit more flow, going to have another read of "fate is the hunter " soon to.

Have read both those - excellent stuff....

 

What are the details for "Flak" - have not come across that one....

 

 

[Chrism]

I read somewhere, can't remember where, that German jet fighter pilots themselves rated the Tempest as their most dangerous foe-attributing this rating to the Tempest's low altitude speed, acceleration and firepower.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Wel

 

I read somewhere, can't remember where, that German jet fighter pilots themselves rated the Tempest as their most dangerous foe-attributing this rating to the Tempest's low altitude speed, acceleration and firepower.

Well from the accounts in the book I just finished, the FW190 had the ability to turn inside the Tempest, but otherwise the Tempest had the speed and certainly the firepower in the four 20 Mil cannons, to take just about anything out fairly quickly. The Me109 didn't seem too much of a foe either... Once hit with the cannon fire most German aircraft just started shedding large bits pretty fast. Additionally the Tempests didn't often hunt alone, and were pretty good at covering each other.

When based in Germany towards the end of the war, the Tempest pilots were very seasoned, whereas most of the good German pilots had been taken out already, so they ended up fighting mostly new guys who were easy to deal with........Maj...

 

 

[eightyknots]

It's time we dropped another A bomb.

Jab7252: this is not the spelling thread! Try: http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/spelling.64454/page-5#post-302726