Flying With Young Children

[I_Con]

Hi All

 

Just recently I have started taking my 2 girls (1 and 3 yo) flying with me. The 3 yo sits up front with me and the 1 yo in the back next two my wife. the 3 yo has her own (pink) headset and she is ok in her car child seat strapped in as it would be in the car. The 1yo however refuses to keep her headset on and every flight is a battle for my wife until the 1yo falls asleep or we have to turn back. Just wondering what other peoples experiences are in regards to child restraints (I want them to be safe, not just follow the law) and hearing protection?

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Maybe try piping her music into the headset or get a portable DVD player and put the sound into a decent pair of head phones, adjust the carseat for maximum comfort, consider what she sees and the angle she sits at. Best of luck, after 3 years old it just gets better.

 

 

[I_Con]

Tried that with a iPad, she'll do it all day long when we are at home training her to get used to it, but as soon as she gets into the plane all bets are off.

 

 

[Marty_d]

At the rate I'm building, my 5, 3 and 9mths kids will have their own pilot's licences by the time it's finished...

 

 

[nong]

Do the children really have to fly? The answer might be yes. It might not.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Do the children really have to fly? The answer might be yes. It might not.

1 and 3 year olds do not have properly formed skull bone and even a minor "walk away" incident for you from an engine out etc. could be fatal for them.

 

Not trying to be an alarmist and I think it's fantastic you want to share time and your hobby with your family, I have 3 daughters myself, but would never take them on a dirtbike or race/rally car back in the day when they were young.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Perhaps the 1 yo is trying to tell you something...

 

 

[I_Con]

Ok so we are going to turn this into a irresponsible parent thing. I was just going to let this thread die on its own but I feel compelled to reply.

 

I am not oblivious to the dangers involved in light aircraft, quite the opposite, I have researched it extensively. Its very hard to compare driving and flying as they are measured in different ways (klms driven to hours flown) and its not feasible to convert hours flown to distance driven because that makes driving look really dangerous compared to aviation. If driving distance is roughly converted to hours in the car (which is a rough estimate because no one knows the exact average speed of all those driven klms plus the whole pedestrian/cyclist thing) then you get the motorbike analogy. Obviously you can reduce the risk of dying in a car by only driving to the shops and back rather than driving on country roads or on Fri and Sat nights when DUI is prevalent.

 

The general consensus is that flying GA aircraft is some where between riding a motorbike on the road at its most dangerous to driving in a car on the road at its safest (I have even read that its as safe airline travel, but I don't think anyone really believes that). Again its difficult to compare because of the differences in measurement. I'm not sure where the dirt bike riding/race car driving analogy comes into it.

 

Basically GA flying encounters 1.8 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours. To break it down further, private and business flying (the category I am interested in) is the most dangerous of all GA ops at 2.2 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours. FYI Flight instruction is the safest at .03 fatal accidents per 100,000 hours and any GA flying in New Zealand is much more dangerous. Now obviously these are not preferable numbers so I looked into it further. I don't have solid numbers to back this up but around 80% of these fatal accidents are caused by pilot error. The most common is flight into IMC by a VFR pilot resulting in CFIT (I count flight into IMC by VFR pilots pilot error), followed by fuel exhaustion. Another interesting fact is private pilots are pretty safe in their first 200 odd hours, its after that, that boundary's start to get pushed and the bag of luck is emptied before the bag of experience is full. Lets not forget that there are a lot of cowboys out there that do stupid things in a plane who are more likely to be involved in a fatal accident.

 

So going by the figures above, I believe I can reduce the risk of my children being involved in a fatal plane accident to the level of driving by:

 

• Filling the tanks for every flight no matter how short. In the C182 I fly I can have full tanks, the whole family and associated stuff and still have room for another 100kgs in the back.
   
   
  
• Fly only in good weather conditions. Never VFR on top.
   
   
  
• We do day trips/navs only on Saturdays so if the weather turns we can stay the night and try to get home on the Sunday therefore reducing get-home-itis because of work or whatever else.
   
   
  
• My family know and can accept that if weather is not perfect we won't go.
   
   
  
• I will never stray to far from a forced landing site. I'm the guy that will only cross the mountains following the Great Western Hwy so there is always a road/oval/golf course within easy reach.
   
   
  
• I will constantly go back to the CFI practicing emergency's and abnormal situations. Its one thing to know what to do, its another thing to have it practiced it in the A/C I fly regularly.
   
   
  
• Only fly into and out of certified airfields with nice long paved runways.
   
   
  

 

 

My instructor tells me if I continue to fly like this I will turn into a pussy and never get any real experience, thats fine I'm only a PPL and I will never NEED to get there. And besides I still do all the fun stuff when I have a mate next to me.

 

The data I have used came from the ATSB at http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/32897/b20060002.pdf.

 

Everything I have said above relates to certified VH reg general aviation. I have not looked into the dangers of LSA which would be different.

 

So with all that my wife and I have decided to allow our kids to fly on the provision that is as safe as can be and we won't take any extra risks. When we were planning/starting our family we both agreed we would protect them as best we could without being helicopter/hovering parents wrapping our kids in cotton wool. We have decided that the benefits of flying as a family outweighs the risk.

 

 

[facthunter]

Well enough analysed. With that attitude you are one of the better possibilities

 

Whole families can be wiped out in car accidents and it often happens.

 

It's possible the aircrafts motion or the engine noise affects the little one and a lot of them don't like having anything around their heads at times. There could be a problem with the pressure changing affecting the ears. Be very careful with any form of head cold and have them chewing or sucking something when descending to aid clearing the ears. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

I agree with FH.

 

Good on you for giving your kids great family memories for the rest of their lives.

 

You sound like you display airmanship and healthy levels of logic. There's a lot of things that can be called bad parenting, but I wouldn't list family flying trips amongst them.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

1 and 3 year olds do not have properly formed skull bone and even a minor "walk away" incident for you from an engine out etc. could be fatal for them.

Other way around I reckon. In many ways babies & tots are super tough.

 

Good stuff Con, I haven't taken any younger than 4 so I can't offer any helpful suggestions other than maybe a portable DVD player or some other distraction.

 

 

[I_Con]

Other way around I reckon. In many ways babies & tots are super tough.

I agree, the amount falls and head knocks my two have had would give the average adult concussion and bleeding on the brain. And how many times have you heard about serious car accidents where the parent/s are wiped out and the kids walk away orphans.

 

Major thread drift now. My biggest fear is my girls will fall in with the wrong crowd/meet the wrong guy/get involved with drugs/e.t.c and ruin their lives.

 

I have a friend who has a boy and a girl, both teenagers now but the dad got his son into dirt bike riding at the age of six. They would hook up the trailer with the bikes and head off somewhere riding every other weekend. Fast forward to today the boy is 16 and most of his facebook posts are pics of himself with his dad riding bikes or some other activity but usually involving a parent or the rest of the family, not street racing/underage binge drinking/doing drugs/sleeping around/e.t.c. Their daughter who is at uni now is a similar situation, was always involved in doing something usually with mum from a young age and now always doing stuff with her mum and family, even went on a 3 month holiday around Europe with mum during her gap year instead of getting pregnant at the Gold Coast for schoolies. Both the kids are quite bright and you can tell they are going places.

 

The reason I tell this story is so that some may understand why I want to include my girls much as possible.

 

Edit: On a side note (or rather back on topic) a bit of googling found these CARES Airplane Safety Harness For Children. Any one had any experiences with these?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My eldest daughter is 39 this year and she started her flying experience in a bassinet in the back of a Cherokee. All the kids still enjoy flying with me when they can, all now in their 30s. I just wish I had taken them flying more often when they were young.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Major thread drift now. My biggest fear is my girls will fall in with the wrong crowd/meet the wrong guy/get involved with drugs/e.t.c and ruin their lives.

Or they could meet a pilot!

PS: My earlier post was certainly not to have a go at your parenting skills, just trying to point out that not all kids are pre-disposed to flying. The 1yo doesn't enjoy it, the reason maybe physiological, or as simple as not liking the loud noise. Don't push it, leave it for a bit and try again at an older age

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

If you cant control by voice command alone, then they don't belong in a plane.

 

If your wife spends the flight trying to control then she isn't going to enjoy it, the kid clearly isn't and your attention must be impaired if you know what your wife and kid are doing throughout the flight.....

 

Is there a reason they have to be there now? If not, just give them a few more years and they'll love it..... Forcing something early may well set up an ongoing phobia where waiting until they are ready will likely just bring joy.

 

Andy

 

P.S regarding the "tether" (Tongue in cheek!) a roll of gaffa tape can equally immobilise and has the benefit of forcing the earmuffs to stay on, and removing the ability to cry and scream.....at a fraction of the cost whats not to like?

 

 

[I_Con]

If your wife spends the flight trying to control then she isn't going to enjoy it, the kid clearly isn't and your attention must be impaired if you know what your wife and kid are doing throughout the flight.....

I never said they don't both enjoy it, just that we can't keep the headset on the youngest. We have a short scenic planned for tomorrow afternoon, we are going to try industrial ear plugs and a beanie, I'll report back with results.

 

 

[M61A1]

I never said they don't both enjoy it, just that we can't keep the headset on the youngest. We have a short scenic planned for tomorrow afternoon, we are going to try industrial ear plugs and a beanie, I'll report back with results.

What about a WWII style leather helmet in a small size? Perhaps custom made if necessary.

 

 

[Marty_d]

What about a WWII style leather helmet in a small size? Perhaps custom made if necessary.

And it'd look so cute!

 

 

[ayavner]

[turboplanner]

I think you're expecting too much from the 1 yo. Lying down in the car seat, just listening to the engine, shaded from the sun should be OK for a little while when awake; better to time the flight for a sleep period, then it's a breeze.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's a breeze if an open cockpit. Nev

 

 

[I_Con]

The pic of that dog is so cute.

 

So just came back from a relaxing 1.4 hr scenic. Turns out the ear plugs (minus the beanie) where a hit. 1 yo was playing and laughing with my wife before falling asleep for the rest of the flight. Although she wouldn't keep the beanie on for any length of time, she barely noticed the ear plugs were in and a good time was had by all.

 

P.S, the 1 yo is in a forward facing child seat.

 

 

[sfGnome]

I don't think I've ever seen a 1 yo who would keep anything on their head, so I wouldn't get too worried about the beanie. Babies' hearing is much more sensitive than adults - including high frequencies that we wouldn't even be aware exist - and some kids are much more sensitive to noise than others. If bub was happy with the ear plugs in, then I'd guess that you've found the cause of the previous problems.