The demise of GA aviation in Australia

[Russ]

she was there just 2 weeks back.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I hate to say it but I think it has a lot to do with "Housing" Australians especially young people have it drummed into them that they have to get there own house before its too late (Quote from parents) and therefore are saddled with a huge debt that consumes nearly all there discretionary spending. With the cost of living going up and the prices you pay to put a roof over your head are beyond the reach these days, its no wonder they can't afford to go flying let alone buy a plane. Its the biggest social issue in Australia at the moment, not same sex marriage like the media sprooks. I can afford to fly because I don't have a mortgage. The baby boomers worked hard there whole life and are now enjoying the fruits of the debt saddled younger generation. A sorry state of affairs. Until we address the multiply issues of affordable shelters not investments, we will continue to see the decline in GA. Flying will once again be for the rich and privileged. I know I have probably offended a few people on this forum, but not being honest in this day and age will be our undoing in the future. I am 35 years old and would love to have my own house, a place to call home but I know in this current climate of over priced houses that I have a choice, buy a house and never be able to afford to go flying or go flying. Life is too short to be a debt slave to the banks. We all work hard for retirement but for some of us we wont ever make it, I can speak from experience.GA will continue to decline when we have cheaper alternatives out there, and when the cheaper forms get expensive then people move onto different outlets for the recreational kicks.

 

Happy to be put in my place if I have offended anyone one but the above comments are my honest opinions why younger people are not going out to your local airfield and going for a fly.

 

Shane McMillan

Nice aircraft, Shane. I didn't see anything that would offend. Your comments are quite valid. We all have different priorities and "we makes our choices..." Your comments about affordability probably apply to the majority, but there are ways to afford a home AND go flying: don't live in the city.

 

I am lucky enough to have a supporting (tolerant) wife and live in a rural area where land is relatively cheap. We can design and build our own home and aircraft to save money. It takes decades, but nothing comes easily- if it does, we don't fully appreciate it. (My wife approved this statement.)

 

 

[farri]

See what you can do without on this list..Nev

Nev, I love your post and you`ve hit the bulls eye with that one!..That`s about the bottom line of it all..It`s being said, at the moment, most Australians can`t afford to pay their weekly and long term bills! The country can`t either, for that matter, but that`s another story.

 

I reckon most people couldn`t care less about my life history but as the subject has turned to the 'cost and affordability' of flying, I`d like to say this.

 

Fran and I were married at 18 years of age, had next to no money and three children by the age of 22. We lived by the principal that If we couldn`t afford it we didn`t buy it. Our kids learnt to go without from an early age but they always had what they needed and we could always manage to pay our bills and still can. Our kids learnt the lesson well.

 

The result: Our son is the first in our family to have a Uni education. He is a civil engineer and manager of the Cairns branch of the civil engineering firm 'Aecom'. He and his wife have two daughters under 10 years of age, own their own home and have everything they realy want.

 

Our eldest daughter and son-in-law run their own multi million $ business. The don`t need to go without anything they want and they don`t. They have two daughters over 20 years of age who don`t go without much either.

 

Our youngest daughter and her husband are both employed, have two sons and two daughters, with an average age of 20 years and a one year old granddaughter. They have their own home, which they are paying off and by going without the things they don`t realy need, they are staying out of financial trouble.

 

Gues what?....Because Fran and I have gone without a lot of things we would have loved to have had in our lives and we still go without the things we can`t afford, I can go flying whenever I want and take some kid for a flight, did so only a week ago and because I still have the same aircraft I purchased almost 30 years ago, I don`t have to worry about the cost of my flying.

 

Would I like to own and fly a modern LSA?... Absolutely! however, it wouldn`t do much more than the old Drifter and a lot less in certain areas.

 

Moral of the story: If you can afford it, have it... If you can`t afford it, go without it.

 

Frank.

 

Ps, I don`t ask for any money from anyone I take flying and havn`t done so from the time I stopped instructing.

 

 

[facthunter]

You probably enjoy your Drifter more than many would enjoy their Corporate JET. You would get more bang for your buck anyhow, and be more "free" with it. ( Less paperwork). Thanks for the story. You must be proud of them. Nev

 

 

[farri]

Nev, Absolutely! On all counts.

 

Frank.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Drifters are a lot of fun, can't beat that open air feeling

 

 

[facthunter]

Sky all around you, and shaking wheels after take off. Nev

 

 

[farri]

My wheels don`t shake after take-off but they do keep going around. I don`t even bother to stop them. Can`t even imagine the amount of miles, nauticle or otherwise, that those wheels have done.

 

The tyres probably last longer as they`re already turning when I touch down.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I'd rather not tell you how old I am, other than I'm not as young as I used to be !.........Middle of this year I chose a lifestyle change also, and quit a full time jobs with AirWhitsunday working with Cessna Caravans and DHC-2 Beavers (Amphibs).... Prior to that I worked with similar aircraft on beautifully Hamilton Island, for a couple of years.

 

Yes they were jobs in Paradise, but even work in paradise is still work . Plus it was a 600 Klm round trip commute from my home base of Townsville. Granted I did do the commute often in the Lightwing, but not for many reasons, as often as I would have liked.

 

And you are correct, CASA is slowly but surely killing off GA, and GA maintenance facilities. They are pushing everything into the high end of things, and basically it's their way or the highway, with many longtime experienced operators choosing early retirement from the industry, instead of choosing the route of increased costs and headaches by the ever- increasing flow of (mostly ineffective) new CASA regulation.

 

I wanted a change that offered me more time with the family, and more free days to go flying, especially to fly-ins on weekends. Although I have been in aircraft maintenance most of my career, I was quite prepared to accept any job that would finance my grand plan.

 

Have I spent more time with the family and done more flying ?....you bet ya !....I've also managed to get a three day a week job with a previous employer in the ...yes you guessed it !.....aircraft maintenance...I can't seem to get away from it !...however by working three days with four off, I have managed to find the time to do the things I want to do, but wasn't doing previously. I have ramped up the L2 work a bit mainly for my own enjoyment, get around to visiting friends a bit more often in the Lightwing, and I don't miss too many local fly-ins anymore with one coming up this very weekend at Bowen.

 

I and many others in the industry have grave fears for the GA industry in the next five years, with the way CASA is currently steering it. There just aren't the new guys coming through, and they in most cases don't have anywhere near the experience or knowledge of the people they are replacing. CASA doesn't seem to see whats ahead, or if they do, they simply don't care. It is a continuing downward spiral with no signs that it will be reversed any time soon. Like Frank I have decided it is time to grab those things in life that mean the most, and have bitten the bullet in making it happen somehow.

 

I could still easily work five days if I wanted to, however three will do it, and I'm much happier with more flying and more family time lately. Seize the day while you can, and persue those things in life that really wet your whistle !...it's really about priorities and lifestyle ........Maj...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

My wheels don`t shake after take-off but they do keep going around...The tyres probably last longer as they`re already turning when I touch down.Frank.

Quite seriously Frank, I've often wondered why large transports don't have some air-driven method of spinning up the wheels before touchdown; the cloud of rubber smoke on landing must cost a bit! Or is the sudden decelleration vital to keping it on the ground and stopping in short strips? Anyone know anything about this?

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Quite seriously Frank, I've often wondered why large transports don't have some air-driven method of spinning up the wheels before touchdown; the cloud of rubber smoke on landing must cost a bit! Or is the sudden decelleration vital to keping it on the ground and stopping in short strips? Anyone know anything about this?

Search the forum - there was a long and involved discussion on this about a year ago.

Sue

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Here it is - http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/why-dont-they.61603/#post-286678

 

Sue

 

 

[Captain Kramer]

I hate to say it but I think it has a lot to do with "Housing" Australians especially young people have it drummed into them that they have to get there own house before its too late (Quote from parents) and therefore are saddled with a huge debt that consumes nearly all there discretionary spending. With the cost of living going up and the prices you pay to put a roof over your head are beyond the reach these days, its no wonder they can't afford to go flying let alone buy a plane. Its the biggest social issue in Australia at the moment, not same sex marriage like the media sprooks. I can afford to fly because I don't have a mortgage. The baby boomers worked hard there whole life and are now enjoying the fruits of the debt saddled younger generation. A sorry state of affairs. Until we address the multiply issues of affordable shelters not investments, we will continue to see the decline in GA. Flying will once again be for the rich and privileged. I know I have probably offended a few people on this forum, but not being honest in this day and age will be our undoing in the future. I am 35 years old and would love to have my own house, a place to call home but I know in this current climate of over priced houses that I have a choice, buy a house and never be able to afford to go flying or go flying. Life is too short to be a debt slave to the banks. We all work hard for retirement but for some of us we wont ever make it, I can speak from experience.GA will continue to decline when we have cheaper alternatives out there, and when the cheaper forms get expensive then people move onto different outlets for the recreational kicks.

 

Happy to be put in my place if I have offended anyone one but the above comments are my honest opinions why younger people are not going out to your local airfield and going for a fly.

 

Shane McMillan

My comment above are purely from a observation point, taken from people from my age group. Australia has the highest level of personal debt on the planet, and we could talk about this until the cows come home whether the reason for this high level of personal debt have come about from greed or out of necessity is open to other people to debate. But the a fact is, aviation is a discretionary spend you don't need it to survive you buy a plane and fly because you want to or desire it.

 

There might be lots of planes flying around at certain airfields around Australia but the CASA hours flown do not support that maybe there are a lot of foreign students doing

 

flying lessons?

 

I have worked in aviation for the last 15 years and have seen the decline, there just isn't the financial reward for being a LAME or a pilot these days because you can obtain you financial goals faster being a miner with minimal spending on training. You work in aviation because you love it, and because of that you make sacrifices.

 

I do agree that my generation and probably the generation after me want everything now and can't wait to get it and might explain the high levels of debt. My parents are just starting to enjoy the fruits of there hard work.

 

CASA is another brick wall in the demise of GA and the bureaucrats in Canberra are clueless to this, just have a look at Canberra itself all GA has virtual disappeared.

 

Ok that is my rant why GA is in demise, its now time to get out in that shed and finish building my single seat 2 cylinder engine ultralight so I go burn holes in the sky for less that $35.00 hour. Than I can save up for that expensive over prices shelter. Remember "Get in quick or you will miss out"

 

Regards

 

Shane

 

 

[farri]

Quite seriously Frank, I've often wondered why large transports don't have some air-driven method of spinning up the wheels before touchdown; the cloud of rubber smoke on landing must cost a bit! Or is the sudden decelleration vital to keping it on the ground and stopping in short strips? Anyone know anything about this?

Years ago, on TV, I saw an Australian guy demonstrating a device he had designed and developed, which would spin the wheels of the aircraft to the correct speed, on landing. The objective was to reduce or limit the amount of tyre wear and smoke that comes off the wheels. The device was driven by the relative airflow and didn`t require any aditional power.

 

I thought it was a brilliant idea. Did it ever take-off ( Pun intended ) ? I`ve never heard of it again, nor seen it on any aircraft that I`ve seen.

 

Different subject but same principal: I saw another Ausi guy demonstrating the device he had designed, to keep the trailer of a Semi remaining in a straight line when the brakes need to be applied in an emergency. It was fitted in front of the back wheels and when applied, a rubber matt would be released. It would slide under the wheels and the trailer would remain in a straight line and it couldn`t jackknife.

 

Then there was this other Ausi guy!!!!!!!! No wonder Australia is falling behind. All the good ideas have to be taken overseas for someone else to develop and good old Aus misses out. Having said that! There are those who want to keep the ball in their own court and they are mostly the guys with the big $$$$. Why would you want to reduce tyre wear when you`re in the buisness of selling tyres.

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Here it is - http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/why-dont-they.61603/#post-286678Sue

 

Here it is again, rather than trying to reinvent the smoking wheel.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

In 1970 GA training cost me $13.50 an hour in a Victa when my income was $2,700 per year. Multiply both by 20. Training at $270 and income at $54,000. That is not an unreasonable situation for someone today, RA training around here is much less. My first house cost $14,000 which would be $280,000 today, about the price around here of the same tired old miners cottage hat I bought then. so again the same. It isn't the cost, at least for country folk that is killing GA. I think a lot of the fun has been taken out of it. Lack of a friendly local Flight Service unit. Lack of a fun aero club full of young people organising parties and weekend trips. Lack of an aerobatic trainer so that you can progress to aeros on the same plane you learned on. Shortage of young women wanting to be flown somewhere for the weekend. No free documents service from the DCA to make you feel important. No ex-airforce dads and uncles wanting to be flown to Tasmania for a few days. No Biggles books. No Airfix kits. No control line flying on every school oval. I could go on...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Aviation is unfortunately being killed by itself. Look how disinterested the RAA pilots are in their own organisation. Its only going to get worse. I think that the same thing is happening across other industry/sports. Golf is also dying, there are lots of golf courses under pressure to close.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes we are living in a different era. Another factor is airline fares, which make a guaranteed arrival time and hire car immediately available at the destination a better proposition than an afternoon of flight planning and fuelling across three States to wait on a cold airfield for a taxi.

 

In 1970 we were also probably punching in five cents per telephone call and we only called people when necessary vs the monthly online/phone bill we live with today, and we only had to pay for a basic car - no sound system, no air conditioning, no $15,000 worth of safety systems, so while the flying cost is about the same, the disposable income is going on things like I'm doing right now.

 

However, there has been some reshaping of the GA market as others have said, and in most areas it's still buzzing along. At the town where I grew up we had grass strips, and one tin shed. Now several aircraft are hangared there. In the mining areas of course where there's more disposable income, GA activity is much more than it has been in the past.

 

Quite often in a country town there is a "personality" who drives the locals to greater activity than they would get involved in on their own, and there is a cycle as these people get old and retire and no one else wants to carry on, whether it be the airfield, shooting range or even swimming pool, and that often is a reason for decline.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Aviation is unfortunately being killed by itself. Look how disinterested the RAA pilots are in their own organisation. Its only going to get worse. I think that the same thing is happening across other industry/sports. Golf is also dying, there are lots of golf courses under pressure to close.

You can view things that way if you like FT, but that's only one view of RAA. Think negative if you wish, but I prefer to think positive, and after reading through the latest mag, especially the GMs blurb, I have been very encouraged for the future direction of things, and I feel we have definitely turned the corner and are now headed in the right direction. A negative outlook rarely gets anyone anywhere............Maj...

 

 

[turboplanner]

RAA is certainly being strangled by apathy, and the old "Club" type format of GA has probably died; the clubrooms and the dining room are no longer places to take someone for a business meeting, but our demographics have dramatically changed, and many of us have global friends now, where our parents just circulated among the local district.

 

We've all got above just mixing with the locals who participate in the same sport we do. Many of the current generation will be distraught at that, and I think that's where a lot of these "end of the world" comments are coming from.

 

Aviation might be killing itself in Toowoomba FT, but it's alive and well in other places.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

RAA aviation is certainly alive and well here in NQld , with more planes coming to fly-ins all the time, be they formal or informal events. This weekends Catalina memorial at Bowen has 20 aircraft registered with the event organisers for attendance. My guess is there will be more than that...............Maj...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You need to take a realistic view on things. I'd love you to tell me where GA and RA in Australia will be in 5 years time...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

You need to take a realistic view on things. I'd love you to tell me where GA and RA in Australia will be in 5 years time...

Well I wouldn't want to guess with GA, but RAA will still be around and hopefully thriving .........................Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

Well I hope you are correct there Maj. Nev

 

 

[rgmwa]

Some of this discussion has been about how to attract young people to flying and joining flying organisations, lamenting the fact that club memberships are dwindling, social and technical changes are altering the way young people behave and their interests, and that the existing flying population is ageing along with their patched up aircraft.

 

However the fact is that there are still a lot of young people learning to fly, either as a career or for recreation. For example, RACWA in WA has had plenty of ups and downs over the years trying to maintain a viable operation with limited resources, but is still doing pretty well in terms of pilot training. I'm a member, but was still a bit surprised to learn a couple of weeks ago that they had recently recruited another 20 instructors to replace those who went to the airlines and other operators, and most of the 20 were trained at the club. And RACWA is just one of a number of flying schools operating at Jandakot.

 

Below is an interesting article from a young Canadian private pilot. It's a bit lengthy and obviously intended for a US audience, but I don't think the situation in Australia is all that different. Food for thought anyway.

 

rgmwa

 

From EAA

 

Ideas for Attracting Younger Members to Your Chapter

 

The following submission was e-mailed to Mac McClellan by Josh Esser (EAA 1056966), member of Chapter 30, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Josh candidly talks about some of the obstacles we have in getting younger folks involved in our chapters.

 

As I have been reading Sport Aviation, Experimenter, and AOPA's and COPA's magazines, I continue to see comments about the need to inject young blood into our organizations, but the fact seems to be that though this need exists, it does not seem to have become an actuality.

 

I am a 25-year-old private pilot. My wife is a 25-year-old Lear 35 first officer. At our wedding in May, we had over 50 attendees who were younger than 30 and held either a commercial or a private pilot license. Obviously our case is a little different than most, but my point is that there are lots of pilots under 30 out there, but not one of them that I personally know is involved in a flying organization chapter of any sort that I am aware of, except for myself.

 

So why are none of these young pilots in clubs? Our first problem with injecting young blood into the organization is that no outsiders know where they are or anything about them. You may have a fly-in breakfast or something hosted by your chapter, but the only people that hear about it are other chapters. This lack of outreach has a big impact.

 

When I was living in my hometown, I was interested in joining a chapter or club. When I found out that there was no local EAA chapter, I found the phone number for the president of the local COPA chapter. I called him up, and he briefly told me there was a meeting the first Tuesday of every month at the Air Force Association building. He did not sound excited or inviting, and so when it got closer to the date, I forgot all about it. I like to think that I might have ended up at that meeting if I was given an enthusiastic invitation and if my contact information was received with a subsequent phone call a few days ahead of time to remind me about the meeting, plus a reaffirmation that they would want me there. I think there was a good chance I would have been there.

 

But the root of the problem is that everybody who wants to join a club has to first want to join and then has to go through the process of finding that club. There are programs all over the U.S. and Canada that are full of young people who fly or want to fly. Namely, programs like the Civil Air Patrol, the Royal Canadian Air Cadets (probably has the most successful pilot licensing program for teens in the world), and many flight college programs across the country. How many clubs have ever approached the leaders of these programs and spoken to the youth and young adults about your chapters? I think that number is probably less than 1 percent.

 

In reality, you are only going to get chapter growth from the flight college programs, but it is good to instill the seeds early into the teen programs as well. There are literally thousands of 20-year-olds learning to fly across the U.S. and Canada right now who are in commercial college-based flight programs. Do you think this next generation that has clearly demonstrated its passion for flying may want to be involved in a program full of like-minded individuals? I would like to believe that there is a good chance. It therefore would be great if a couple of proactive members actually came and gave a presentation for what EAA is all about. Don't make the young pilots find the chapter; show them where it is.

 

When I relocated to my current city, I joined a COPA chapter and an EAA chapter. When I asked my wife if she wanted to come to one of the meetings with me, she crinkled up her nose and said, "I don't want to go to an old boys club and talk to a bunch of crusty old guys. Half of them are so out of touch with the type of flying I do, yet try to argue with me when I try to talk to them about the stuff I do every day at my job." (I am paraphrasing a bit, but you get the point.)

 

The chapter has zero to offer her. What can we do to offer the younger generation value to their membership? First of all, we need to have an open mind. New members have new opinions, and the students in these flight programs are highly trained in air law. Maybe members have never heard of what they are talking about, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. I have heard of other chapters reducing the rate for younger-than-30-year-olds to $10. That is beside the point. To them it is still a wasted $10.

 

Before we cut our membership rates, why don't we increase our chapter membership value? For example, when I first went to my new chapters meeting, I had to go out of my way to talk to people and meet acquaintances. If I didn't make that move, I would have sat in the corner and not talked to anyone all night. I am a very outgoing guy, so this was easy for me; but it may not be as easy for the next guy. It is easy to add value to a new membership; you need to make new members feel welcome. I mean really welcome. Don't just say hi and walk away. Talk to them; ask them about their flying experiences, what they are flying now, and what they want to fly.

 

I understand that with younger people it may be hard to find engaging topics due to the age gap, but they are there because they like airplanes! And you like airplanes, too, so you have a whole breadth of topics to talk about now.

 

I would go as far as to say that new members need to be assigned a flying veteran member as a mentor. A one-on-one contact who they can ask questions, a mentor who will call them to remind them to come, a mentor who will call them midweek and say, "I'm going for a spin. You want to jump in? If you help me wash the bugs off when we are done, we will call it even." Don't split fuel costs or anything for these new members. You were going flying anyway, so take them for the trip. If they offer to pay for some gas, so be it.

 

A young person will have a lot of expenses between tuition payments and higher-than-ever living costs. You don't want them to turn down a ride because they can't afford it. One day they will be able to afford it, and I would bet my bottom dollar they will pay it forward to the next generation. Do you think a new member who gets to tag along with a member who is going flying anyway, getting a couple of free flights a month, would see some value in membership? I sure do. If you don't have a plane but you have a project, maybe you can invite them over and show them what a cleco is and how to buck rivets. It takes very little effort by the chapter members to make the new members feel appreciated. Plus an extra set of hands is sometimes great to have.

 

I like the new EAA Chapter Video Magazine. I think there is a lot of production value and good information in that video. Unfortunately, showing that video and then doing nothing more at your meeting will not resonate with the younger crowd. Why?

 

Young people are more tech savvy. They will ask the question, "Why can't I just watch this from home? Did I really have to drive 30 minutes to watch this episode that could have just been e-mailed to me monthly as part of my membership?" I am not trying to discredit the video; just make sure you have some other content instead of turning the lights back on and telling everyone that's all for this month's meeting.

 

When the chapter is discussing topics, engage the new and younger members. Ask them their opinions, even if they are not well versed in the subject. Have a real conversation about why you may feel differently about a certain subject than they do. I know this seems like simple stuff, but it happens all the time. You may find that the new members from the college flight programs have a lot of knowledge and insight into various discussions.

 

I find it amazing that pilots who plan every aspect of a flight just want new pilots to join their chapters and wonder why they aren't. We need to approach this recruitment like we would build an airplane. You don't just start throwing plane-like pieces together and hope it flies. No, you need to sit down and think about what you want that plane to do. Once you establish that, you sharpen your pencil and you start to design the plane and get a solid plan together.

 

Once the plan is on paper and everything checks out, you start to implement your design, ordering the tools and material you need to do the job properly. You start to assemble your plan and check the quality as you go, while learning from mistakes.

 

So I guess I really am challenging everyone to start putting a plan together. Spread the word of what ideas are working for your chapter and what ideas don't work. I feel that a lot of members talk about wanting younger members, but not many are actually doing something. Maybe we all need to put our heads together and brainstorm on how we can make improvements and get more young people involved.