The demise of GA aviation in Australia

[fly_tornado]

Piloting is not a religion. I think scholarships are a dopey idea....real feel good stuff. Frankly, there should be hurdles. The requirement for both financial commitment and personal effort, goes some way towards sorting out the chaff.Anyone can loaf along on a scholarship. When the dough runs out, often, so does the student's feigned interest.

The flying club in Clifton has been doing scholarships for a few years now. None of the recipients seem to have stuck around. Like most young people they just don't have the money to spend and there is nothing compelling about hanging around an airfield.

 

 

[ayavner]

The say youth is wasted on the young... those same kids, when they get my age (or above) would be grateful for that money to help keep the dream alive!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

maybe we need to allow some african kids to grow up here?

 

 

 

[facthunter]

They make them cheaply there. Nev

 

 

[Guest Yampy]

At least he's wearing a parachute .

 

 

[facthunter]

He's gonna need strong arms unless that truck stops soon. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

The CASA attitude doesn't help. In the last two days I have had an AWB about valve rocker block failures and info about airmanship.

 

The rocker block info was just about saying that LAMEs don't know what they are doing and the airmanship article was long and so basic that it was all old hat. Anyone not knowing it shouldn't be flying.

 

I have also recently seen figures for registered planes not flying for a year and the numbers are increasinh.

 

 

[M61A1]

He's gonna need strong arms unless that truck stops soon. Nev

At least he's committed, there'll be no getting off that ride before it ends without consequences.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

maybe we need to allow some african kids to grow up here?

You obviously haven't been to Moorooka (Brisbane) lately.

 

But anyway, they will just take up skateboards, dirtbikes, Playstations etc etc and all the other alternate toys now available since the 70's.

 

I had zero exposure to planes in my schooling late 60's thru 70's btw, was all about cars and dirtbikes for our area (Mornington Peninsula) and seeing as how many great riders and drivers came out of the area it must have had an effect.

 

 

[M61A1]

The flying club in Clifton has been doing scholarships for a few years now. None of the recipients seem to have stuck around. Like most young people they just don't have the money to spend and there is nothing compelling about hanging around an airfield.

I think it depends on the individual. You either love fly or you don't, I don't see any point in trying to convince someone that they do. From as young as I can remember, I've loved to hang around the airfields. I was given my first camera at eight years, I still have lots of aircraft photos of as many different types as I could find and their cockpits. These days, apparently, I'm an "aerosexual". Mind you, it probably doesn't help that all of our so called "heroes", are dimwits who can run fast while carrying a pigskin ball that's not even round.

 

 

[facthunter]

I reckon it's more of an addiction than a "lust". After almost a lifetime with them (I can see all the faults and limitations of flying contraptions) I spent an hour yesterday watching one of the Shuttleworth flying episodes. Having flown examples of some of the exhibits, it's a lump in the throat experience at times to see them flying again. Whilst pilots come from all walks of life there becomes a sort of bond of understanding about flying that those who haven't done it can't know. This doesn't come in the early days as far as I recall, as you are so absorbed with YOUR level of coping and skill, and it is self evaluation and a fair bit of competition and desire to be "ace of the base, (deep down)" You get over that later and what becomes evident is that your experiences have modified you, and the way you think.. That is what learning always does. It is actually the definition of learning.

 

The experiences gained in flying are of such intensity, over time you would have to be switched off to avoid them. Nev

 

 

[metalman]

nicely worded Nev, i fin d the longer I fly the more addicted I get, I find myself counting the minutes to last light at the moment and doing the traffic maths to see if I have enough time to do a few laps, and on that, I can remember being so bored with circuits during the beginning ,now though, I find myself enjoying the "getting aquainted" part of a new type.

 

I can see a couple of problems with the perception of flying and the youth of today, one is the idea of the costs, people are often surprised when I tell them that a RAA cert might run to $5-7000, and an aircraft can be bought for around the same as a nice tinny, but regardless it has to be a passion, there is a bookshelf full of log books at the school on my field(and at my previous haunt for that matter) with a few entries and then no more. I asked the FI about it and he reckons a couple of things, some people just want to see if they can fly an aircraft with no ambition to go further, some want to go solo as some sort of "life time " tick list, others start but then the money becomes an issue, ,,,so I guess there will always be a bit of a revolving door senario at the schools . The other issue is the attitude of a lot of kids today(not all though) is the gaming scene, I've watched my sons with it and really, real life can't compete (in their minds) with the games, you can be and do anything in the game ,instantly, no training required! Place that against flying and it's a lot of study ,time and money just to get into a pretty slow aircraft.

 

With so much out there competing for our time and money I think flying has to be a passion or it wont hold a person for long!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

ok that doesn't really explain the industry is in such decline. My experience with the RAA, being all that I can go by, things aren't going well and its because the pilot population apathy is endemic. Maybe its an Australian thing?

 

 

[ben87r]

The course that I'm in at the moment I'm one of the old ones!(26) average age of 21ish and hundreds of people putting themselves through so I don't think it is an issue with the kids, more with how "smart" you get told you need to be to be a pilot and how much "work" is involved in doing it and how you need to be a millionaire because no one who is on a normal budget can possibly afford it.. It's is unfortunately normally told to people from pilots, and this rules it out before any real research can be done into becoming a pilot or any ambitions have set in. Kept me from doing it till now

 

 

[rgmwa]

Nev and MM have made some good points. The high cost of flying in any form, plus the considerable initial effort required to get a certificate or licence to fly an often ancient aircraft, followed by the ongoing commitment and expense of maintaining currency and gaining experience typically doesn't appeal to a younger generation who grew up when space travel was already established history, and who are much more interested in the immediate return on investment in the latest electronic gadget or game. I think high costs and social change are major drivers of why GA is in decline. I'm generalising of course, but much of today's youth seems focussed on the individual. For example, they don't join clubs like people did years ago, and which provided a framework for supporting and encouraging an interest and providing social interaction. I'm a late starter to flying, but go to a typical aero club meeting today, and have a look at the membership. You will find very few young people. Interestingly, forums like this in some ways perform a similar function, but sitting in front of a computer is not the same as making the effort needed to go down to the airfield to see who's there and what's happening.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[metalman]

The course that I'm in at the moment I'm one of the old ones!(26) average age of 21ish and hundreds of people putting themselves through so I don't think it is an issue with the kids, more with how "smart" you get told you need to be to be a pilot and how much "work" is involved in doing it and how you need to be a millionaire because no one who is on a normal budget can possibly afford it.. It's is unfortunately normally told to people from pilots, and this rules it out before any real research can be done into becoming a pilot or any ambitions have set in. Kept me from doing it till now

One of the problems is in having people feel that comments are all encompassing, there are always exceptions, but from what I've seen in the short time I've been flying is that young people (under 25) are an exception, unless it's being bankrolled by a Chinese or Indian airline but then there isnt the same passionate motivation there( not counting the exceptions ).

 

As for the decline in the industry it is EVERYWHERE, the motor trades ,manufacturing ,steel workers, there are simply very few apprentices and for that simple reason the manual trades are slowly dying. Aviation does add another dimension to it all with the regs we have, I was keen on getting into the rag n tube resto side of things but after a few chats with older LAME's I kinda thought it was all to hard, one area I am looking into is getting a welding approval still time consuming but as I get older I can see it as a bit less physical than my current trade.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Much cheaper and quicker to build things than fix them.

 

 

[oracle1]

Soon you will plug a data cable into the back of your head and a feeding tube into your mouth and go flying in the matrix.

 

 

[ben87r]

The way I see it is that if given the right circumstances that kids a still interested but the hurdles of cost and effort need to have been addressed. The industry does need to change to accommodate this however. What I didn't mention earlier is that it's a vet course meaning up to 80k is a government loan so the student has to "only" come up with the remainder. This to me is a move from the industry to combat one of the previous issues. If the kids keep saying its to hard and the oldies keep saying that the kids aren't interested anymore I don't think we will get anywhere

 

 

[M61A1]

ok that doesn't really explain the industry is in such decline. My experience with the RAA, being all that I can go by, things aren't going well and its because the pilot population apathy is endemic. Maybe its an Australian thing?

I suspect that industry in general is in decline because we are so overegulated. Every industry has to support a quality system, a training/competency system and workplace health and safety, that all comes at a massive price. It's nice to be able to say "look we're all nice and safe because I won't allow you to hurt yourself", but you get to a point where you are no longer productive or competitive. The countries experiencing a boom at this time have far less regulation. We're on the way down, I don't see it turning soon.

 

 

[facthunter]

Aviation skills are declining world wide. As CNC technology took over from trained machining specialists, IT has taken the place of " FLYING" skills in Jet transport. While the overall safety picture may remain somewhere near static, the accidents that DO happen appear to be with aircraft that have nothing much wrong with them except not enough fuel or someone doing something ridiculous with the flight control systems, so a perfectly good aeroplane comes to a bad end. We are close to having pilotless aeroplanes in military and probably civil operations. If I had the choice between a fool up the front or no-one, I might go for no-one. then I would have to trust the designer more, the owner of the Airline to do the right thing and not cut everything down to make a higher profit. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I suspect that industry in general is in decline because we are so overegulated. Every industry has to support a quality system, a training/competency system and workplace health and safety, that all comes at a massive price. It's nice to be able to say "look we're all nice and safe because I won't allow you to hurt yourself", but you get to a point where you are no longer productive or competitive. The countries experiencing a boom at this time have far less regulation. We're on the way down, I don't see it turning soon.

For sure the regulation environment is killing western economies. but how does that explain the performance of the RAA in non regulatory issues? CASA doesn't seem overly concerned with the SMS as long as the RAA makes some effort to address safety. The promotion and marketing of recreational aviation by the RAA over the last few years is so bad its beyond explanation.

 

 

[frank marriott]

COST of flying - one has to compare time[year] with cost i.e. when I started my PPL in 1979 the hourly cost of training was at least as expensive if not more so then today if you take an hours training V a week’s wage as a % - for a warrior/C172.

 

In my local area private flying is as busy as I can remember it and still growing - that being said the main growth area is in RAA LSA types.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

what age do you guestimate the pilots to be? Every airport I go to I seem to be 20 years younger than everyone else.

 

 

[facthunter]

WAS the main growth area frank. I don't know where it is now. As to cost of flying it as a percentage of the average wage , it is better than ever. When I was learning the average weekly wage would buy you less then two hours flying. nev