Engine failure in SA

[Guest Maj Millard]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and best wishes, and yea I found it helpful to put it out there as well as helpful to others in some way, my mate Rob went home this morning couple of stitches in his head and a sore bum and wrist The press here wrote it up wrong made me sound awfull saying my pass went to hospital and me being worried more about the plane, I actually was scrambling around and found my first aid kit and treated robs head,the aircraft was of no importance once rob was off to the hospital I phoned RAAus and gave them the info Astb then phoned me as did SAR so I was at the scene for 1.5hrs b4 I left for the hospital but I didn't know my back was broke I just had pain, weird as it sounds no pain when it happened just shows be careful post accident, you can be in a really bad state and not know it

Steve, On the subject of broken backs, I also suffered two crushed vertebrae in a plane crash in 1974. It is painfull, and Probabily will be for some years to come, and unfortunately something you will have to carry for the rest of your life.

 

Any vertebrae damage these days is called a "broken back".. However if your back was really 'broken' you'd be at least in a wheel chair, or dead !.....

 

Additionally my damaged vertebrae weren't treated correctly at the time, because other injuries I had took priority . Had to half sit up where I should have been laying flat on a board for my back. It took a good twelve months before I was considered fit, and

 

then did several hundred more skydives, which was my life at the time.(early/mid 20s) If thats not a good workout for a back, nothing is !!!....In the process my two injuried vertebrae 'fused' together, which is one way the back goes about strengthing itself after injury. A recent back X-ray shows I now have three 'fused' vertebrae .

 

On the very positive side, and this is ment to be a positive contribution for you, I never have really suffered any significant pain from my injury, and it never has really stopped me from either skydiving, or flying over the years, after the initial healing period.

 

Key is to let it heal properly initially ,(took me 1-2 years when I was young) and then commit to leading a normal life, and staying fit.

 

If you lead an inactive life and slouch on the couch watching TV your back will let you know.

 

Best of luck mate with your initial healing........Maj...

 

 

[farri]

My sincere best wishes to Steve and passenger.

 

This last monday night, I was talking to a guy who owns and flies a Jabiru with a Jabiru engine. He`s based up here in the FNQ area and is considering buying another aircraft with a Rotax blue head 582. engine. The CFI who taught him to fly, advised him to contact me for any advice or opinion I might have on the engine. The first thing he said to me, and I quote, " If I have an engine failure, that will be the end for me," I took that to mean, he would simply give flying away and so I let it pass.... ( I hope it`s what he meant )

 

Though the guy said the 582 engine looked very neat and tidy, I wouldn`t give him any opinion on it because the outside appearance had very little to do with the condition of the inside and I knew nothing about the history of the engine`s prior use. What I was prepaird to talk about was what I do know about the 582 and the fact that there are no guarantees that any engine won`t fail suddently, at any time, for any number of reasons.

 

The guarntee I did give him was the fact that in a single engine aircraft, if the engine failed, the only way he was going was down and if he wasn`t within gliding distance from a suitable landing area the outcome would be completely uncertain.

 

Over the years, I`ve had four 582 grey head engines, totaling 2985 hrs.... More egine failures than you can count on both hands but always walked away without a scratch or a broken aircraft so I`d like to think I`ve learnt a thing or two.

 

After 30 years of flying I still practice dead stick landings, regularly. ( only noise is the wind in the wires ). Because I fly for recreation, I will only fly within gliding distance to a suitable landing area.

 

Everyone chooses their own track when flying. Choose carefully and wisely.

 

Frank.

 

Disclaimer: I`m not sugesting anyone go out and do dead stick landings.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I recently had an incident after fuelling out of a friends 20 ltr containers, while visiting a friends property. We had fuelled the cans at a local Bp with 98 octane.

 

After take off I noticed what I initially thought were ants being circulated in my glass fuel filter bowl, which is visible in-flight in the Lightwing. Initially there were quite a few "ants" being circulated, but then the number decreased and the flight went normally. Afterwards I noticed a bit of crud in the bottom of the bowl and removed it for a look-see. What I thought were ants was in fact small droplets of an oily dark substance. My friend said the cans were clean, so we put it down to the servo. The fuel had been filtered through my Mr Funnel when we put it in my plane...............Maj...

 

 

[farri]

Due to the amount of fuel I was using when I was instructing, I kept a 200lt steel drum with a hand pump in it, for refuling the Drifter. The drum was refilled regularly by the Shell agent who came in with his tanker truck and supplied all our fuel needs on the property.

 

When refuling the Drifter, I always used a funnel with a very fine filter in it. After a period of time I found very small particles of a rusty brown appearance, every time I refuled and did a fuel sample check. It took me while to wake up to the fact that the brown stuf was extremely fine particles of rust that were getting past the filter. I stoped refuling from a steel drum.

 

Anyone who is refuling from a steel drum needs to be aware that the drum may look in very good condition on the outside but be not so good on the inside.

 

Water,either in the fuel itself or from condensation in the drum, will sit on the bottom of the drum, because water is heavier than the fuel. Slowly but surely the water will begin to rust the drum. Fine particles of rust may/can get picked up and passed through the filter on a funnel and into the tank.

 

Buying fuel from a service station doesn`t gurantee it will be clean. Given enough time, steel tanks under the ground will accumulate water and rust and if not checked regularly, the servo wouldn`t even know about it.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Anyone who is refuling from a steel drum needs to be aware that the drum may look in very good condition on the outside but be not so good on the inside.Water, either in the fuel itself or from condensation in the drum, will sit on the bottom of the drum, because water is heavier than the fuel. Slowly but surely the water will begin to rust the drum. Fine particles of rust may/can get picked up and passed through the filter on a funnel and into the tank.

If you have a setup that uses 200lt drums for refuelling, and the rotary or electric drum pumps that are so convenient and go with it then it pays to buy a new drum of Avgas as a once off investment. The Avgas drums have a painted-on liner to prevent rust inside the drum. What you have to be careful of though, is never to allow the pump to touch the bottom of the drum because the liner is only a layer of paint and very easily damaged. Look after it carefully though and you can get many years of service out of that one drum. Unfortunately the drum is even easily damaged from the outside because Avgas drums are intended for single use so they are made much thinner than other 200lt drums.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Steve, On the subject of broken backs, I also suffered two crushed vertebrae in a plane crash in 1974. It is painfull, and Probabily will be for some years to come, and unfortunately something you will have to carry for the rest of your life.Any vertebrae damage these days is called a "broken back".. However if your back was really 'broken' you'd be at least in a wheel chair, or dead !.....

Additionally my damaged vertebrae weren't treated correctly at the time, because other injuries I had took priority . Had to half sit up where I should have been laying flat on a board for my back. It took a good twelve months before I was considered fit, and

 

then did several hundred more skydives, which was my life at the time.(early/mid 20s) If thats not a good workout for a back, nothing is !!!....In the process my two injuried vertebrae 'fused' together, which is one way the back goes about strengthing itself after injury. A recent back X-ray shows I now have three 'fused' vertebrae .

 

On the very positive side, and this is ment to be a positive contribution for you, I never have really suffered any significant pain from my injury, and it never has really stopped me from either skydiving, or flying over the years, after the initial healing period.

 

Key is to let it heal properly initially ,(took me 1-2 years when I was young) and then commit to leading a normal life, and staying fit.

 

If you lead an inactive life and slouch on the couch watching TV your back will let you know.

 

Best of luck mate with your initial healing........Maj...

That's good advice Maj , I two have 4 vetabray fused together after a car accident when I was 20 . I've been on chronic pain management for the past 15 years due to defered pain , but keeping fit and active is the key to a normal life ,

 

After the prang , two years next week , I got quite unfit due to broken sternum and the what , and it took about 8 months before I could get active again , started on the chain saw cutting fire wood ! Worked wonders ,

 

Thinking of you ,

 

Cheers mate

 

Mike

 

 

[AVOCET]

I recently had an incident after fuelling out of a friends 20 ltr containers, while visiting a friends property. We had fuelled the cans at a local Bp with 98 octane.After take off I noticed what I initially thought were ants being circulated in my glass fuel filter bowl, which is visible in-flight in the Lightwing. Initially there were quite a few "ants" being circulated, but then the number decreased and the flight went normally. Afterwards I noticed a bit of crud in the bottom of the bowl and removed it for a look-see. What I thought were ants was in fact small droplets of an oily dark substance. My friend said the cans were clean, so we put it down to the servo. The fuel had been filtered through my Mr Funnel when we put it in my plane...............Maj...

The colour of my crud was like cream ,

 

Rod R rang caltex this morning and the outcome was that this was water mixed with premium unleaded , this was news to me , I always thought that water wouldn't mix ,

 

I'm going home tonight to do a test and see if I can make cream out of water & pulp !

 

Ill let you know the outcome .

 

Cheers Mike

 

 

[AVOCET]

I've got a 200 lt avgas drum with an electric pump & aviation filter , it's been emty for a while but I'm now going to fill it with the Jerry can fuel I get from the servo ,

 

I've been slack and have just trusted the fuel and up till yesterday and have just loaded the fuel direct to the tank .I've never had a problem ,just goes to show how these things can bite you when you least expect it !

 

I'm filtering all the fuel from now on .

 

Mike

 

 

[dodo]

If you can't get it to form an emulsion, try adding a drop of detergent (just one should be enough). It sounds like the problem is that some factor or additive is allowing the water to form an emulsion with the fuel. A little water in fuel is not that unusual. Maybe ethanol would do it?

 

dodo

 

PS I don't know much about fuels - it is just a hypothesis!

 

 

[facthunter]

Rust in tanks even when used regularly in motorbikes seems to be the norm. Petrol doesn't inhibit rust it seems to promote it. I often put a small amount of two stroke oil in the older bikes fuel, hoping it will help stop the rust. Hardly a lot. About an egg cup to 6 litres. nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

That's good advice Maj , I two have 4 vetabray fused together after a car accident when I was 20 . I've been on chronic pain management for the past 15 years due to defered pain , but keeping fit and active is the key to a normal life ,After the prang , two years next week , I got quite unfit due to broken sternum and the what , and it took about 8 months before I could get active again , started on the chain saw cutting fire wood ! Worked wonders ,

Thinking of you ,

 

Cheers mate

 

Mike

Mike, Strange coincidence but I have just spent several hours in the last two days after work, cutting up trees with my Sthil 038!.. I have a fire pit on my property, and generally have a fire when we are there. We are still clearing trees in our bush that were felled by Cyclone Yasi two years ago. The property is about 60 Kim's South of where Yasi crossed the coast. We had trees down in two opposite directions, and one missed the shed by about 6 inches. Our house showed no damage other than a few cracks in some interior drywall.

 

I'm feeling a bit sore from the chain sawing today, but Probabily from also stacking the firewood....great outdoor activity for sure !.....Cheers Ross

 

 

[Kenny]

From what I can gather is it only BP fuel that is giving the problem? Why I mention this is that a Drifter pilot in the Kilcoy area ruined two 503 motors and traced the problem back to BP fuel he purchased from the local servo in Kilcoy.

 

Both motors had some sort of glazing deposit on the bores and also a rubber componebt in the carby had disolved , it seems that the fuel had been contaminated with some sort of additive. While talking among ourselves another pilot mentioned that he would not buy BP again as he too had had problems with BP

 

We did speculate among the group of us at the time that a tanker driver may have siphoned some of the fuel off and replaced it with some sort of filler ( this is speculation only) .

 

As far as the back problems go I too had a back injury in 1966 due to a motor bike accident I injured T11 and T12 , I had surgery to graft them to the next door verterbrae and so have four grafted together. It did not stop me from riding Speedway and Motocross and later joining the police force so there is plenty of scope for an excellent outcome.

 

Cheers

 

Ken

 

 

[corky450]

G'Day Steve

 

Shocking news,get well soon, you've still got to get that Jab up to Tamworth one day.

 

Cheers

 

Corky

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

From what I can gather is it only BP fuel that is giving the problem? Why I mention this is that a Drifter pilot in the Kilcoy area ruined two 503 motors and traced the problem back to BP fuel he purchased from the local servo in Kilcoy.Both motors had some sort of glazing deposit on the bores and also a rubber componebt in the carby had disolved , it seems that the fuel had been contaminated with some sort of additive. While talking among ourselves another pilot mentioned that he would not buy BP again as he too had had problems with BP

We did speculate among the group of us at the time that a tanker driver may have siphoned some of the fuel off and replaced it with some sort of filler ( this is speculation only) .

 

As far as the back problems go I too had a back injury in 1966 due to a motor bike accident I injured T11 and T12 , I had surgery to graft them to the next door verterbrae and so have four grafted together. It did not stop me from riding Speedway and Motocross and later joining the police force so there is plenty of scope for an excellent outcome.

 

Cheers

 

Ken

I tend to buy from BP locally here in Townsville, and I use both 98 and 95, mostly as a mix, not noticed any problems. The funny fuel I got with the little oil balls in it was from an out of town BP. Whatever it was it went straight through my Mr Funnel, but it didn't seem to effect the engine at all. Pays to keep an eye out I suppose........Maj...

 

 

[winsor68]

Steve... What a bloody tragedy...fortunately you are still with us .

 

I imagine you are reading this immobilized on your back so my advice is rest that back as much as you can.

 

Good luck with the rehabilitation. Thinking of you.

 

 

[Thirsty]

I've got a few hours in 380 and was shocked to see the story of your crash on the news. Not sure if you know John Harding Steve but he was a previous owner and his partner was the inspiration for the hey Jude painted on the cowling. He also was shocked but not overly surprised, I think he said he'd had a few sudden engine stoppages in light wings over the years :)

 

Get well soon mate.

 

 

[cooperplace]

The colour of my crud was like cream ,Rod R rang caltex this morning and the outcome was that this was water mixed with premium unleaded , this was news to me , I always thought that water wouldn't mix ,

I'm going home tonight to do a test and see if I can make cream out of water & pulp !

 

Ill let you know the outcome .

 

Cheers Mike

yes they can to form an emulsion, which is what you have

 

 

[Steve Donald]

I've got a few hours in 380 and was shocked to see the story of your crash on the news. Not sure if you know John Harding Steve but he was a previous owner and his partner was the inspiration for the hey Jude painted on the cowling. He also was shocked but not overly surprised, I think he said he'd had a few sudden engine stoppages in light wings over the years :)Get well soon mate.

Hiya I am feeling a lot more comfortable this morning, yea 380 was great to fly I had replaced rod ends engine mounts fitted a new Bolly it was so smooth and cruised nice at 70kts I loved it best tail wheel I have had since my Sonerai, I just enjoy tail wheel flying wish I could get up for a fly now, but I think after waisting so much cash now and at 55 I should hang up the headsets ill post in the classifieds all the gear inst h sets intercoms down the track when I am mobile, the worst part of these events as a pilot is looking across at your passenger and seeing their total reliance on you, he was very brave and remained well braced without any distraction to me, but hard to take knowing is not going to be real nice, leaves you feeling guilty well that's how I feel, then all the what ifs hit you in the head, he's been really nice about it as well visits me in hospital phones all the time I'd prefer a punch in the head that part doesn't hurt , funny thing is he batched all the numbers descent rate area freq reg no date time you name it and used the data for cross lotto tickets, anyway mate all the best Steve

 

 

[facthunter]

Taking someone else up adds a new dimension to the whole business.. The way you think is right. You got down on one piece, and it's bit early to evaluate your flying future. I would never ask a new mother whether she wants another child for the same reason. . You are too close to something that is a big deal, so take it easy for a while. Your job is to repair as well as possible. If your mate's numbers work he might do well that way. . Running over it in your mind is NORMAL. Happens to all who experience things like that. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Steve, the results show that you did good, and the best you could at the time, and the two occupants walked away. You can be content with that pure and simple, and it looks to me like the old Lightwing may get to fly another day also. Be happy with that and heal well mate .........Maj...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Steve, you think too much. Chill out and enjoy a little down time while your airframe repairs itself. Read a book, listen to good music. Sleep a lot.

 

Remember that wise old saying that certainly applies to your situation: any landing you walk away from is a good one. If you can use the aircraft again, that's even better. Your aircraft looks repairable.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Steve,

 

Sorry to hear about your misfortune mate but you and your passenger survived and that's all that matters to us formunites and your families and friends.

 

The plane is replaceable but both of you are not so that is a bonus.

 

I can image what you are going through wondering if you did it right but rest assured you did as your both still with us.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself as you had to make a decision in an instant and your skills and training kicked in and got you both out alive in the end.

 

I can only imagine how it would feel to damage your pride and joy as they become a big part of your life and part of the family in a way.

 

Rest up and recover mate and make a decision later when your head is clear whether you want to continue something you obviously love.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[planedriver]

Rust in tanks even when used regularly in motorbikes seems to be the norm. Petrol doesn't inhibit rust it seems to promote it. I often put a small amount of two stroke oil in the older bikes fuel, hoping it will help stop the rust. Hardly a lot. About an egg cup to 6 litres. nev

I used to do the same Nev. If the tank was empty and I wiped a clean white hankerchief around the inside the inside of the tank and got rust on it, i'd remove it, high pressure clean the inside of the tank tank, put in some rust converter and swirl it around and leave it ovenight. After a thorough washing and drying it out, i'd put a bit of 2stroke oil in first, then a small amount of petrol, and swirl it around the walls of the tank before refilling.

 

I used to do this once a year, as the UK winters always promoted a rusty tank if they were not kept full.

 

This seemed to stop any crap clogging up the filter on the tap, so I could then fly up any hill without any fuel starvation problems.

 

It dosn't need too much oil once cleaned as above, otherwise it'll show up on your plug deposits.

 

"Old fashioned" I may be, but i'm sure it helped prevent potential problems for me in the past for the old bangers I could afford back then.

 

As time goes by, thats all I seem to be able to afford these days.:crying:Funny that, NOT REALLY !

 

 

[planedriver]

Sorry Steve! I got too wrapt up in Nev's post, and forgot to wish you a speedy recovery.

 

Keep yer chin up mate.

 

At least you're here to tell your story, and we're all so very gratful for that.

 

Kind Regards

 

Planey

 

 

[Steve Donald]

My sincere best wishes to Steve and passenger.This last monday night, I was talking to a guy who owns and flies a Jabiru with a Jabiru engine. He`s based up here in the FNQ area and is considering buying another aircraft with a Rotax blue head 582. engine. The CFI who taught him to fly, advised him to contact me for any advice or opinion I might have on the engine. The first thing he said to me, and I quote, " If I have an engine failure, that will be the end for me," I took that to mean, he would simply give flying away and so I let it pass.... ( I hope it`s what he meant )

 

Though the guy said the 582 engine looked very neat and tidy, I wouldn`t give him any opinion on it because the outside appearance had very little to do with the condition of the inside and I knew nothing about the history of the engine`s prior use. What I was prepaird to talk about was what I do know about the 582 and the fact that there are no guarantees that any engine won`t fail suddently, at any time, for any number of reasons.

 

The guarntee I did give him was the fact that in a single engine aircraft, if the engine failed, the only way he was going was down and if he wasn`t within gliding distance from a suitable landing area the outcome would be completely uncertain.

 

Over the years, I`ve had four 582 grey head engines, totaling 2985 hrs.... More egine failures than you can count on both hands but always walked away without a scratch or a broken aircraft so I`d like to think I`ve learnt a thing or two.

 

After 30 years of flying I still practice dead stick landings, regularly. ( only noise is the wind in the wires ). Because I fly for recreation, I will only fly within gliding distance to a suitable landing area.

 

Everyone chooses their own track when flying. Choose carefully and wisely.

 

Frank.

 

Disclaimer: I`m not sugesting anyone go out and do dead stick landings.

Steve... What a bloody tragedy...fortunately you are still with us . I imagine you are reading this immobilized on your back so my advice is rest that back as much as you can.

Good luck with the rehabilitation. Thinking of you.

Hi thanks mate I am sure I will be back in action fairly soon and having this media and support is great I am lucky compared to the suffering others have endured amongst our aviating family no burns or major issues that are life changing apart from the lesson in appreciating what we have , these things do make you reflect , all the best Steve