Rec Pilot Then Upgrade To PPL or PPL Straight Up??

[Guest Condog]

Hi guys

 

If i want to have a vh reg Jabiru 170, 230 or 430

 

And i want to be able to fly into Bankstown or Canberra

 

I noticed Rec Pilot Lic costs around $4000 to $5000 and PPL costs $15,000

 

Lots of threads and sites say you can convert very quickly

 

Cost is a reasonable consideration

 

So im wondering on your thoughts as to go straight for PPL or do RPL and then convert.

 

Thanks for you advice in advance.

 

For those who dont like typing i will add a pole so they can tell me without any typing which way they think i should go. Ta.

 

 

[facthunter]

A point to consider is whether you purchase your plane at some stage and use it during the training. If it is VH registered it couldn't be used under RAAus. If it is VH registerable (certain models) it could be transferred (I presume) provided you checked that all maintenance was done appropriately ?

 

I would advise generally to start down the RAAus route at a school that has both, ideally and do the theory for the PPL. A combined school will accommodate your needs better and with more understanding and complexity.

 

If that cannot be done all you flying hours count for acquiring skills, and essentially the standards are skills based. ALL GA qualifications transfer where applicable to RAAus. Not all RAAus skills will meet the PPL standard so don't directly transfer to a credit for that particular sequence, but you, having done "some" work might expect to achieve the required standard with a few more hours, rather than have to learn the whole thing again. Nev

 

 

[seb7701]

Agreed. I haven done the RAA thing and am now staring down the barrel of a conversion to PPL in not many hours. RAA for sure!

 

 

[ayavner]

Agree with the above, however you may want to double your estimates around money as those are just minimums. I am probably $8000 into it, and still have the PAX and NAV yet to do for my RAAus ticket. Then sure, another minimum 15 hours or so to convert to PPL. But, that's the way I've chosen to do it, who knows it it will really work out cheaper in the end; I suspect it will be a negligible difference when its all said and done.

 

 

[metalman]

I'd wait till December when the Part 61 regs come into play,,,could be a very simple path from an RAA cert to a RPL then onto a PPL,

 

Matty

 

 

[facthunter]

The RPL has restrictions and unless you think you NEED it, It is actually no use to you. Just go straight to the PPL or CPL if that is your aim. It has no employment value, and just a diversion to someone who is going further. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

The fact is - things are about to change, and none of us know exactly how the conversions will work after the adoption of CASR Part 61 on 4/12/13. We currently don't know just how things will fit - anything that looks simple in a CASA press release often turns out complex, difficult and costly......but we live in hope! My best interpretation is:

 

Starting in RAAus, and then taking the transition to an RPL isn't going to take very much cost in the conversion. You'll need an ARN, an ASIC, an English language proficiency test - but that will allow recognition of your radio ticket, and a Drivers Licence (aviation) medical. Then your PC will be recognised for an RPL. But there's an inconsistency in that the PC minimum is 20 hrs TT,(15D + 5S) - but if you start in GA then its 25TT, (20D +5S). Your RAAus cross-country endorsement will only be recognised if it contains a min of 5 hrs solo plus an x/c of >100nm w/2stops - which means you will probably have closer to 15 hrs in total navs. In other words - the RPL more or less becomes the current non CTA PPL with restrictions on weight and pax.

 

But if you then plan a transition to full PPL - that's likely to include both CTA/CTZ endorsements flying, plus some IF (probably?), plus the PPL final theory exam, plus a Class 1 or 2 medical.

 

So, using the absolute bare minimums - the RAAus route to RPL is roughly 20hrs + 15 x/c @ $200, plus any flight test to shift over. $7000 + $300?

 

If you start the GA route via a RPL - it's going to be 20hrs dual + 5 solo mins in GA aircraft - then you do your x/c endo. So you seem unlikely to get away with <35 hrs TT. If you estimate costs based on this - it will be closer to 35 x $250/hr = $8750.

 

Now the costs will vary between schools. At dual RAA+GA schools - it will be simpler. In fact these schools might even start off using the same student syllabus, do the GA exams, and use the same (CASA) student record sheets to allow for easy conversion.

 

happy days,

 

 

[68volksy]

It's becoming a bug-bear of mine to see people use the phrase "Recreational Pilot Licence" when referring to the "Recreational Pilot Certificate". Might not mean much on the surface but it blurs the line between the two options unnecessarily in my view. Anyway to answer the question ...

 

This question comes up so often! If you can find a VH registered Jab or own one then go straight through with PPL. There's no point doing RA at all if that is the case - just head off along the PPL/RPL route. If the only Jab you can find is RA registered then sure go ahead with the RA certificate. If you can find a school with an RA registered Jab that does GA also then that would suit perfectly also. Main point for me is that you should spend as much time in the formative hours getting to know the aircraft you actually intend to fly. I think it's a waste flying several different aircraft along the path to your end result. I'm 60 hours in on one aircraft and still learning how the different systems and mechanics work - all little things that might save my life one day!

 

The fine print with the RA to GA/RPL conversion is the GA Flight review that will be needed. The schools are getting more of an update on this but it won't necessarily be straight-forward. Remember the RPL automatically means you can fly anything up to 1500kg which is a substantial increase over the RA maximums. As such i'd be thinking most schools will be looking for a few hours in heavier aircraft before signing off on an RPL.

 

 

[Camel]

Firstly, a GA registered Planes requires to be maintained by a LAME and an RAA private plane can be maintained by the owner L1 , L2 or a LAME giving you more choices. When you train in your own plane GA rates and RAA rates are a lot higher than you may expect also I would suggest that if you are carefully counting hours and dollars that you should not buy a plane until you understand a liitle more as flying, maintenance, insurance, hangar, training and general care and repairs does not come easily if you are counting all the pennies. It would be cheaper to hire than to buy, but the convenience, joy and freedom to go when you want when you own your own plane is special.

 

Everyone on this Forum has given you good advice, my choice would be RAA to Pilot Certificate then GA to PPL if you can find a school to do both even better, if you change aircraft expect up to 5 hours to get use to it and if you change instructors also expect more hours to get use to him or her. Also there is a saying " the longer it takes then the longer it will take" in other words fly regular to do it quicker. also the older you are can mean it will take longer as youth have the ability to learn quickly, "youth is wasted on the young". I have flown with over a dozen instructors and always a different way of doing things, this is good as you will pick the best ways and learn the wrong ways, my first instructor said what kills you is what you don't know. I'm still learning and I am an Instructor with well over a thousand hours. Anyone who says or acts like they know everything is best kept away from.

 

 

[shu77]

I started the RPC with the idea of transferring to a PPL when I had some hours. I may still do that some day, but I am having more than enough fun so it keeps dropping down the priority list. The only real incentive I can see in the PPL is the ability to fly out of Bankstown or Camden in CTA or the prospect of 4 seaters or aerobatics. For general flying though I cant justify the extra cost per hour to rent a C150 or a C172 over a J170 or a Tecnam

 

 

[ben87r]

If you will need a PPL then I would recommend doing it straight out, if you think you will need a PPL at a later date I would also recommend a PPL. I've done both and my RA hours ment nothing and it cost me 18k still for my PPL so all my Ra hours cost on top of that. GA training that I received was to a much higher standard as well. Mind you if RA was to meet all the things that your after it was allot of fun for me and much cheaper.

 

 

[ayavner]

Well about that, just make sure you are with a school that can do both - as long as they train to the day VFR GA syllabus, then all your hours should count. My school has an arrangement with a local GA school so when we're done they ship us there and we do the bits we didn't get to do in RAA, like instruments or whatever, something like 15 hours to convert.

 

 

[metalman]

Both the schools in the Yarra valley are GA/RAA ,it should be a pretty easy path for anyone wanting to go from an RAA cert to RPL and then further,

 

 

[Guest Condog]

Wow thanks for the replies. Lots of thinking now.

 

Usually qhen governing bodies of anything make changes they make Things more difficult and more expensive, so im wondering if i should do this right now. Because im assuming the will say all RPL prior to x date in Dec 2013 will have this ........ All RPL after x date will require this....

 

Whats your thoughts on that.

 

 

[poteroo]

Wow thanks for the replies. Lots of thinking now.Usually qhen governing bodies of anything make changes they make Things more difficult and more expensive, so im wondering if i should do this right now. Because im assuming the will say all RPL prior to x date in Dec 2013 will have this ........ All RPL after x date will require this....

 

Whats your thoughts on that.

That's a fair expectation - we are dealing with different air here in Oz, and CASA needs to protect us from ourselves! Anyway, it's pretty obvious that you'll be able to convert from RPC to RPL without too much difficulty. From what I read into the proposed CASR 61 - it's not going to be any harder to swap over to full PPL. May depend on individual schools particular attitudes - look for joint schools where there is 'recognition' of past flying and theory.

 

happy days,