Model Aircraft and liability issues.

[farri]

I`ve given permission to a couple of guys to fly large models and helicopters off our property and I may give permission to their club. I`d like to get more information on the liability issues of flying models and what to look out for.

 

In the event of an accident caused by a model aircraft, resulting in someone being injured, would the person flying the aircraft be liable or the land owner who`s property it is being flown from?

 

Has flying model aircraft ben deemed to be a dangerous activity?

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

They start with the land owner, then go through "all the people" so the organiser, the participant, the owner of the model and so on, so you would need your name on the policy for a start, and you would need to see each renewal is current, or take out your own Radio Control Public Liability policy.

 

In my club you require a licence before you can fly, you can only fly at the club field and linked club fields, and the subscription includes a substantial amount for Public Liability insurance (maybe more than RAA) which the club takes out. There are a few serious injuries from people being hit by wayward aircraft on the field, in parks, hitting cars on highways, property damage etc. You aren't covered if you fly away from the field or linked fields or let your licence lapse.

 

Compared to RAA there should be a lot less big claims, but more small claims.

 

The noise factor may be a planning issue.

 

 

[Gforce]

I can help you out here - get all members to get insurance here. http://www.amas.org.au/#!insurance/cnnu

 

 

[farri]

Thanks turbo and Gforce, for the information so far. The guy who came to see me told me everything they do, club wise, is by the book and legal. He also told me that if we have my property registered as one of their flying sites, their insurance would cover any issues that might arise.

 

I know how difficult it is for anyone to find some land to fly anything from. Our property is ideal. Unless out of control, the aircraft won`t even fly over my next door neighbours property. I thought this forum would be a good place to start gathering information so any factual information that anyone can give me, will be greatly appreciated..... I don`t have any trouble with any one and I want to keep it that way.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Gforce]

Frank, the guys sound like they have found a very understanding and perfect guy to help them out ! Nice one Frank :-)

 

 

[John Nooyen]

Have a chat to these guys.

 

http://maaq.org/

 

 

[farri]

Thank you, gf. If all legal and liability issues can be taken care of, I will allow the club to fly here. I may even become a member.

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

Excellent John. Thank you.

 

Frank.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I can help you out here - get all members to get insurance here. http://www.amas.org.au/#!insurance/cnnu

For those of you who have been asking how much Public Liability Insurance cover to buy for your flying, which may include busy airports, note the $20 million cover and note the requirement to comply with applicable CASA regulations for RC Aircraft.

 

 

[old man emu]

Farri,

 

Thanks for letting those RC guys have a place to fly. It is so terribly hard to get a place nowadays.

 

As the bloke from the club says, if your property is listed as a designated club flying field, the insurance is taken care of. If I was you, I'd make it a condition of usege that you are given free club membership, which will include your RC flying insurance.

 

The next thing to do is build some amenities and a bar-b-que and lay in a stock of soft drinks that you can sell. Never miss a chance to make a quid!

 

OME

 

 

[farri]

I wouldn`t be involved with any club that isn`t a limited incorporated association.

 

Way back when I was the president of the 'Far North Queensland Ultralight Association', I demanded that the FNQUA become incorporated because I`d made the land available, free of charge, to the club and I was concerned about litigation. ( no litigation ever occured )

 

Myself and two other club members wrote the constituation. We could set our own limit of liability so we set the limit to, ' The assets of the club' (though there were none) and $20 per member. We lodged the aplication, it was accepted by the bureaucats who had to approve it and we became an incorporated association.

 

I don`t know what the requirements are these days for a 'not for profit, limited liability incorporated association.' If someone does know, this is probably a good time to tell us.

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

Thanks OME and I love it especially your last line. It never has been easy to get any land owner to provide land for anything, let alone something considered to be a dangerous activity, especially free of charge.

 

Had I not given a bunch of guys, with dreams of starting an Ultralight club, sitting around tables at the Cairns Education Center with nowhere to go, the use of my land, there probably would never have been the FNQUA, I would never have instructed and a hell of a lot of people would never have known the joy of flying in the Drifter.

 

I sincearly believe that everything we do leads to something else and if we can help each other in any way possible, we create a better world. I`m not farming anymore, my time is my own and I`ve got plenty of land.

 

Frank.

 

Ps. Please believe I`m not looking for 'brownie points'

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Hi Frank...we have gone through this here at Tamworth. Apparently as long as the land owner gives his permission for the guys to fly there, the insurance they hold covers it. I know thats a very basic description and im sure there are other factors but I believe you will be right as long as they have current insurance.

 

Scotty

 

 

[farri]

Thanks Scotty. I`ve just got off the phone to the guy who came to see me. I won`t mention his name publicly, just yet. Need to see how it all pans out.

 

Different Subject. I see Google earth has updated the immage of this area and it`s been recent. I was having a look at Deeral on GE and when I zomed in on our property, I see the Drifter sitting beside the house. That was a couple of weeks ago when I brought it up here to give it a wash and some TLC.

 

Never know just what you might see on GE.

 

Bugger the building, I just want to fly ,these days. ... .........I will have a look at your Pietenpol though.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Downunder]

All state Assns are members of the national body, The Model Aeronautical Association of Australia, http://www.maaa.asn.au/

 

See the "Policies and Procedures" link. All the info is there including field aplication forms, insurance etc.

 

 

[Ivan B]

If you want to stir up some further discussion/information try http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php

 

 

[Marty_d]

I`ve given permission to a couple of guys to fly large models and helicopters off our property and I may give permission to their club. I`d like to get more information on the liability issues of flying models and what to look out for.In the event of an accident caused by a model aircraft, resulting in someone being injured, would the person flying the aircraft be liable or the land owner who`s property it is being flown from?

 

Has flying model aircraft ben deemed to be a dangerous activity?

 

Frank.

Farri, as an ex-model flyer I think you're a bloody champion for letting them fly on your land.

 

As others have said the MAAA insurance covers public liability, as I recall annual club fees were up around the $200 mark when I stopped flying models about 15 years ago and most of that was insurance.

 

I was learning to fly the real thing at the same time, vividly recall one time when I overflew the club (Kelly Field, out near Richmond) at 500 ft AGL in a C172 and was treated to the sight of a largish model biplane slow rolling about 100 ft below and to the side of me.

 

 

[farri]

Thanks Guys, I didn`t expect so much response. I need to know as much as possible about safety issues and fire risk, especially with turbine engines.

 

I would like to know if anyone here has crashed a model with a turbine engine and has it started a fire.

 

So far, I`ve found this information http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/model-turbine-safety.html

 

Frank.

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Frank...with Turbines they dont need to crash to light the place up. I have seen the dry grass catch fire just from the exhaust on take off.

 

Scotty

 

 

[Gforce]

Frank, I don't fly Turbines so cant confirm 100% but my understanding is that they are only allowed to operate in very restricted RC fields DUE to this very reason. It might be something that you would have to exclude from your field use. Here is why...

 

 

 

[farri]

Man! That is nasty. Certainly a fire risk to be taken seriously. Havn`t done enough research yet but I will do ASAP.

 

I do have fire fighting equiptment and I`m no stranger to fire. In my pevious life as a cane farmer, harvester owner and operator, I light many cane fires and fought many that got out of control, so much so that, finaly, every time I lit a match, I became extremely anxious. A cane fire out of controll is a very nasty beast, indead.

 

Back to topic: I still don`t know whether model flying has been deemed to be a dangerous activity.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Gforce]

Frank, Its really one of theses sports that has multiple categories and risk categories to match. 90% of RC club flying with just be sports flying and most clubs require pilots to have a check flight then work on their " wings " Starting with bronze to Gold standard. Very easy stuff but a Gold wing pilot will be a competent pilot and will be able to perform basic aerobatics. All of this would be deemed low risk. Pylon racing would be deemed a higher risk... Jets are again a higher risk... ALOT of RC clubs might restrict flying to " sports only " so you may want to do that. It will still keep 90% ( possible all ) the guys happy.

 

 

[Ivan B]

Yea but Turbines look and sound so cool .

 

I fly model aircraft (Gold wings Powered and Glider) and every field I've been to (only 4) have all had some restrictions. The only aircraft I would suggest have a very low risk of fire are gliders. The batteries in MOST (NOT ALL) gliders are NiMh, your standard rechargable batteries. Other Battery powered aircraft USUALLY use LiPo Batteries. LiPo's can cause Fire here are a couple of examples from youtube 1)

 

Although this is rare it does happen.

 

Can't tell you much about liquid fueled RC aircraft as I don't fly them.

 

It's great that you are going to let the club fly on your property, With the correct management risk of fire or other accidents can be minimal. Most RC pilots that become members of clubs are very responsable and follow the rules.