Some interesting designs

[Deskpilot]

Hi guys. Thought you might like to see what others are designing. Love this guys work.

 

http://www.alexandershevchenko.com/49489/gallery-galereja

 

Enjoy.

 

 

[Gforce]

Thanks for posting this Doug - This little 95:10 would be fantastic if all CF and electric !! I love it..

 

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Thanks for posting this Doug - This little 95:10 would be fantastic if all CF and electric !! I love it..[ATTACH=full]23231[/ATTACH]

Industrial design is a fascinating art. To me that lovely little plane looks like a dog (as in canine, Pluto fashion, not meaning a dog to fly ...). It's definitely not a cat or a rabbit for instance. Clever stuff - what are the design elements of that thing that make it a 'dog'?

 

BTW if it were to be electric then it wouldn't need that big cowling although it would probably be a good place to put the batteries to suit the balance/CG. Ironic isn't it, the advantage of electric is being able to have a small motor and not needing the large cowling up front and with this one you'd end up having it anyway.

 

 

[Gforce]

Same.. Had I not gone into FX I would of done design I think..

 

That Big cowling would actually lend itself very well to a nice 30kw Joby brushless and then I would place the ESC under that to provide excellent cooling. The Batteries would be great in the lower aft fuse section ( However CG may not allow this ) and the top could be used for a self contained BRS... Or storage depending on your preference. However, the spinner looks WAY to high to me.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Same.. Had I not gone into FX I would of done design I think..That Big cowling would actually lend itself very well to a nice 30kw Joby brushless and then I would place the ESC under that to provide excellent cooling. The Batteries would be great in the lower aft fuse section ( However CG may not allow this ) and the top could be used for a self contained BRS... Or storage depending on your preference. However, the spinner looks WAY to high to me.

Mmmm - the high spinner is part of what makes it look just so, in line with the tailboom etc, and gives excellent clearance to avoid prop damage. A lot of prop FOD on tri-gear planes is actually caused by small stones thrown forward by the nosewheel during taxiing, have a listen next time you fly off a dirt strip with a tri-gear that doesn't have a nosewheel pant - you can hear the stones hitting the prop.

 

Even so, an IC engined version could get that high thrust-line easily enough with a gearbox mounted in the 'up' position, but an electric motor would necessarily bring it lower by half the motor diameter and if you imagine the spinner there it changes the look of the little beasty quite significantly.

 

There's probably room in the cowling for the batteries and the ESC, then you could use the waste heat from the motor and ESC to heat the batteries - I understand they do need heating, not cooling, they work best at about 70-80*C apparently. Keeping the heat up to them is the biggest inefficiency problem the Stemme has, I'm told it actually uses electric heaters ...

 

One of these would probably still retail at around the $35-40K mark because of lack of production volume, there's just not a big market for single seaters.

 

After you mentioned it I had a look for the Joby 30kW offering but can't find anything, do you have a link to it? I think that'd be the largest suitable motor at present? Turnigy's are only about half that I think.

 

 

[Gforce]

Mmmm - the high spinner is part of what makes it look just so, in line with the tailboom etc, and gives excellent clearance to avoid prop damage. A lot of prop FOD on tri-gear planes is actually caused by small stones thrown forward by the nosewheel during taxiing, have a listen next time you fly off a dirt strip with a tri-gear that doesn't have a nosewheel pant - you can hear the stones hitting the prop.Even so, an IC engined version could get that high thrust-line easily enough with a gearbox mounted in the 'up' position, but an electric motor would necessarily bring it lower by half the motor diameter and if you imagine the spinner there it changes the look of the little beasty quite significantly.

 

There's probably room in the cowling for the batteries and the ESC, then you could use the waste heat from the motor and ESC to heat the batteries - I understand they do need heating, not cooling, they work best at about 70-80*C apparently. Keeping the heat up to them is the biggest inefficiency problem the Stemme has, I'm told it actually uses electric heaters ...

 

One of these would probably still retail at around the $35-40K mark because of lack of production volume, there's just not a big market for single seaters.

 

After you mentioned it I had a look for the Joby 30kW offering but can't find anything, do you have a link to it? I think that'd be the largest suitable motor at present? Turnigy's are only about half that I think.

 

Actually......Lipo temps are best kepy cool.. Heat them up and they loose efficiency very quickly and can puff ! I have over 1000 hours flying them ( in UAVs and RC planes ) so can attest to their best practice. This " concept " we have just come up with would be great in your suggested $35-40k mark but would never happen. Look at the Espyder, thats $40,000 for a 300 hour build kit and this would be made of carbon fibre so expect that number to be more like 50++

 

Turnigy motors are pretty average RC model copies of mostly great RC motors but are never meant for man carrying aircraft. I would not trust my high end RC planes to one ! and they do not have a 15KW one... not even 10KW... check out the forums to see how terrible they have been.

 

Joby have a few 30KW motors out for testing only at this point. Not in full production yet.

 

 

[Himat]

Hi guys. Thought you might like to see what others are designing. Love this guys work.http://www.alexandershevchenko.com/49489/gallery-galereja

 

Enjoy.

Thanks for sharing Doug!

I browsed the different designs and found them nice. Being an engineer I do see the difference in designing something that look good and designing something that do work well. Both acts can be described as designing, but one is closer to “styling” and the other to “engineering”. Anyway, to sell the “styling” part is important too. And as an engineer it is a good idea to have a look at what others come up with, an industrial designer might be less constrained than an engineer as he/she are less aware of the boundaries of the “box”. It is easier to think outside “the box” when you are not aware of it. The fin mounted propulsion on the canard airplane is one example here.

 

 

 

[Downunder]

It just me or has a foxbat had a child.......

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

Great designs. Regardless of practicality, they're works of art.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Actually......Lipo temps are best kepy cool.. Heat them up and they loose efficiency very quickly and can puff ! I have over 1000 hours flying them ( in UAVs and RC planes ) so can attest to their best practice.

Yes, keep Lipos cool..... but Lipos are for toys and models, anyone who values their life wouldn't consider using any construction of Lithium Ion batteries in a person-carrying aircraft. Rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries use an electrolyte which is both highly flammable and toxic. Lipos are classified as 'Dangerous Goods'.

 

Electric planes use Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4 - or lithium ferrophosphate - or LFP) batteries. They have an energy density that is about 5-10% lower than Lipos but their power density is considerably higher than Lipos. The electrolyte in LFP batteries is non-flammable and non-toxic, they are considered to be a 'safe' product and so can be disposed of in normal household waste and are not classified as 'Dangerous Goods', so they can be carried as air cargo.

 

LFP batteries do not absolutely need to be heated but if you do heat them they increase their efficiency and decrease their internal resistance which allows a faster discharge rate and that can be very beneficial for power bursts during climb for example.

 

Interestingly the batteries most need to be heated when the motor and ESC demand more power from them (i.e. during climb), and it is while the motor and ESC are working hardest (i.e. during climb), that they produce the most waste heat so it makes very good sense to use that waste heat to heat the batteries ...

 

 

[Downunder]

The yuneec web site states their batteries are kokam lithium polymer.........

 

Stated voltage per cell is 3.7.

 

I think the life battery voltage is 3.3?

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

The yuneec web site states their batteries are kokam lithium polymer.........Stated voltage per cell is 3.7.

I think the life battery voltage is 3.3?

Yes, OK, I should have said that 'some' new electric plane manufacturers are still toying with Lipos but you wouldn't catch me sitting on a pack of them, and the first inflight fire they have will wreck the public's confidence in electric flight for all types of batteries. It's hard enough trying to get anyone to understand the (enormous) difference between Lipos and LiFes now, let alone once a plane has burst into flames inflight - look what it did to Boeing with the 787 Dreamliner when they thought they could do it!

 

LiFe cells are available in various voltages, mine are 2.4V, as are many of the ones used in cordless power tools. Bosch, DeWalt etc use x6=14.4V for their '12V' range. Same for the Shorai Powersports batteries used in karts, racing bikes and cars, and which I have in my homebuilt - 18AH weighs less than 1kg compared with 7-9kg for gel or lead/acid.

 

 

[Admin]

There are some great designs in this thread and with the ability to create some interesting curves with fibreglass and carbon fibre, I look forward to seeing some more economical constructions methods so as to produce them in real life in the not too distant future.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

How's this for a peek under the cowling -

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Hardly an exciting looking engine , but that is progress ( or potentially progress). Internal combustion engines of the reciprocating variety have done the job for a long time but they have destroyed themselves frequently. Some of the engineering over the years has been the peak of that achievable with the conflicting requirements of reliability and lightness being balanced. Nev

 

 

[Mark11]

Hi guys. Thought you might like to see what others are designing. Love this guys work.http://www.alexandershevchenko.com/49489/gallery-galereja

 

Enjoy.

Fantastic - love the delta!

 

 

[Gforce]

How's this for a peek under the cowling -[ATTACH]23267[/ATTACH]

that would be the sonex - i heard they are making one for the Onex aswell... Personally, I strongly feel that the future of electric sports aircraft in in single seat designs first. A conversion I have been thinking about for some years is Mark Browns amazing Starlite. Given it fly`s great on a Rotax 447 ( 42hp ) it would be an outstanding candidate for the Joby 30KW motor.

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Another entry in the race:

 

 

 

[Downunder]

I like the "hybrid" idea here with the Diamond. An efficient generator topping up the batteries.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I always liked the idea of the Wankel rotary for aircraft; with a great power to weight ratio, there are amazing stories about their reliability.

 

But... they chew the juice and can be unbelievably noisy. Note the ugly muffler under the sleek Diamond aircraft.