Phillps oil for Jabs

[jack1]

I know an 230-C owner who has been using Phillips oil 100AD for over 700hrs and still running strong and has more or less has not touched the engine, I just want to know if any body else in Oz has any experience with the Phillips product.As far as I know this is the oil Jabiru USA use in their engines and they don't seem to have the issues we have as far corrosion, carbon build up etc. I am not a big fan of Aeroshell W100 Plus in Jab engines and Phillips 100AD seems to meet Jabiru's requirements.

 

Below is what Jabiru equivalent requirements for oil in their service manual and what standards Phillips 100AD meet. Is there any difference between the different standards of oil mention below or is it the same oil and just an Australian standard Vs USA standard. Interested in any replies.

 

Jabiru manual recommended. Phillips 66 Type A 100AD

 

Lycoming No. 301F. Lycoming No. 301G

 

Continental MHF-24B. Continental MHS - 24B

 

MIL-L-22851C. MIL-L-2285D

 

 

[AVOCET]

Is Philips oil available on Australia ?

 

Cheers Mike

 

 

[jack1]

Yes you can Phillips oil in Oz. I have since found out from Jabiru USA they use Aeroshell exclusively. I just want an oil that leaves a cleaner engine I know people who are using the Shell Plus 4, the same oil that Rotax use, and are very happy with it leaving the engine much cleaner but my engine is only new and if I go down that track and have engine issues Jabiru will will probably wipe any warranty.

 

 

[facthunter]

The main issue is the fuel you use and warrantee. IF you use avgas you should use a specific aero engine oil. to handle the lead. Shell W-100 plus or the multigrade, is the Latest with extra protection for camshaft scuffing and storage corrosion factors addressed. All these oils have adequate detergent capacity and high quality control. The oil would be available under a release note. (required with aviation) These oils are competitively priced. and MUST meet the standard.

 

Running a motor for a while and experiencing no trouble is not a good test. Logically you would say "why not". there would be loads of reasons, one being that while an oil may appear to be doing the job it may be close to failing in some respect and without a proper CONTROLLED series of tests, the fact that your engine has no faults apparently, would not be enough, to confirm it's suitability.. Some very sophisticated tests would be need to confirm that over perhaps thousands of hours of testing. There aren't many oils out there today that are designed for air cooled engines, because where are all the air cooled engines? Nev

 

 

[geoffreywh]

"because where are all the air cooled engines? Nev"..................In the front of just about every light aircraft in Australia today?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes Geoff, but I think he meant what percentage of internal combustion engines do they represent.

 

 

[facthunter]

And most of them use the recommended oils specifically made for air cooled engines .Nev

 

 

[Dieselten]

Jabiru engines must be run on an ashless dispersant aero-engine oil (after engine break-in on a non-compounded aircraft engine oil). That is laid down in the manuals. If you decide to deviate from what Jabiru specify, you have become an (unpaid) test-pilot.

 

Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 specifically states on the labelling on the back of the bottle the following: Quote: "DO NOT use Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 in engines that are designed to use ashless dispersant aviation piston engine oils such as Aeroshell W oils. This includes air cooled Teledyne Continental Motors, Textron Lycoming and Jabiru engines". If you know of people who are using this oil in Jabiru engines, please ask them to reconsider;- they are not doing themselves - or their engines - any favours.

 

The oil-manufacturer and engine-manufacturer probably know more about engines and oil than the aircraft owner or user, so why deviate from what the manufacturers specify? Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 was specifically engineered by Shell, in conjunction with Rotax-Bombardier, for the liquid-cooled Rotax 912-family only. That series of engines have unique requirements for their oil because the oil also lubricates the gearbox and clutch-assembly, and the wrong oil can rapidly decommission those two item. The Jabiru engine is direct-drive; it has different requirements and therefore different lubricant specifications.

 

If the Phillips oil meets the specification set out by the aircraft/engine maker, then it is acceptable - as are the others Jabiru specify. The question then becomes what is commonly available where you normally operate and/or maintain your aircraft? I'd venture to suggest you'll find Aeroshell, Mobil or BP aircraft engine oils are a lot more commonly available at most airfields/airports/maintenance facilities here in Australia than Phillips. I have no doubt Phillips oils are very fine aviation-grade oils. Are they readily available and how do they compare pricewise to the others?

 

I have no issues with Aeroshell W100 Plus, although I prefer to use Aeroshell W100 in my Jabiru. I change it and the filter every 25 hours because at that point it is loaded with lead oxide from the Avgas, and changing oil every 25 hours is the cheapest maintenance you can do for your engine. Remember, the Jabiru engine has relatively little oil-capacity to keep it small and light, and the limited volume of oil is pretty much at the end of its life at 25 hours anyway. If you use mogas only, you can get away with oil and filter-changes every 50 hours. Aeroshell oils are excellent for their intended purposes, and they are traceable via the Release Note. So are any other aircraft oils that meet the specs set out by Jabiru.

 

The oil-filter is so cheap you may as well change it at the same time, and always cut the element out of the old filter and inspect the pleats for any metal. Only then do you know how things are going internally. That and regular leakdowns are the best indicator that all is well inside the powerplant.

 

"Leaving the engine much cleaner" is pretty meaningless. Think about it this way:- if the oil comes out dirty then that "dirt" isn't in the engine any more is it? If the oil comes out clean, what's been left behind in the engine that should have been removed with the oil?

 

Changing the oil regularly is the cheapest and best maintenance the owner can do for his aircraft engine. Using the correct oil is just more of a good thing.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

sorry Turboplanner. I couldn't get the laughing face to work. I was not terribly serious. .......................Although I have always used Exxon Elite 20w50 in both continental and jab 6....I just don't like how long it takes for 50w oil to get around an engine in winter...OK Shell 100W in summer. Excellent even. But the stuff is like treacle in Melbourne winter...

 

 

[facthunter]

As far as I am aware ANY recognised aviation oil will meet the standard it says it meets. That is one thing you should be able to depend on. The multi grades are more suitable in colder climates but lower viscosity mono grades may also be specified in some cold areas. Jabiru haven't done this as Australia is not a cold country like Canada is.

 

Aircraft engines are not stop start like doctors cars used to be. Some of the thick oils ( and aircraft oils tend to be ) take a while to warm up and the warm up is done with a bit more care than the average car,( which is suggested be done while driving moderately rather than idling). An aeroplane has to contend with a full throttle take-off and high power climb every time it is used which is a little different to the use most vehicles get.

 

Some approved aero four cycle engine oils are synthetic and some owners use them. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Theres some talk on "new" oil being used in Jab engines soon to be recommended but that was last Sept

 

Every chance its the shell sport plus 4 me thinks

 

 

[AVOCET]

As far as I am aware ANY recognised aviation oil will meet the standard it says it meets. That is one thing you should be able to depend on. The multi grades are more suitable in colder climates but lower viscosity mono grades may also be specified in some cold areas. Jabiru haven't done this as Australia is not a cold country like Canada is.Aircraft engines are not stop start like doctors cars used to be. Some of the thick oils ( and aircraft oils tend to be ) take a while to warm up and the warm up is done with a bit more care than the average car,( which is suggested be done while driving moderately rather than idling). An aeroplane has to contend with a full throttle take-off and high power climb every time it is used which is a little different to the use most vehicles get.

Some approved aero four cycle engine oils are synthetic and some owners use them. Nev

Hi , what is the synthetic brand oil used in aviation ?

 

I've only read about 50/50 blends

 

Unless this is what you were referring to

 

Cheers Mike .

 

 

[jack1]

Thanks for the replies. Nev i I just want to know if the Philips oil is the " equivalent " oil to the Aeroshell as mention in the Jab service manual. The standards mention in my thread above have the same names & numbers but have an "G" instead of a "F" or an "D" instead "C" etc. Those letter changes might be a big deal, changing the characteristic of the oil altogether, or on the other it might change it 2/5ths of stuff all or its Oz - USA thing. i am no expert that is why I am asking the question. I rang Jabiru and they even could not give me a defined answer.

 

Jetjr the "new oil" being tested is definitely shell plus 4. Plus 4 oil out of Jabirus have been sent to pommey land by Shell for the last 2-3 years for testing ,when certification takes place who knows.

 

 

[AVOCET]

I googled Philips oil , and there are a couple of lab comparison test that are worth a read

 

Cheers

 

 

[jack1]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-aircraft-oils.php.

 

Interesting read

 

 

[facthunter]

I understood all the major manufacturers produce a synthetic 4 stroke aero oil as distinct from "synthetic technology", that you often see in auto oils. Unless turbo fitted and long oil changes , I wouldn't go there. I can't see why one would use them particularly if the plane isn't used virtually every day, and clocks high hours., on longish flights. 6 months or 5o hours is the usual change, but this is back to 25 hours for most of us folks. Nev

 

 

[jabpilot]

Mike,

 

Just took delivery of my latest case of Phillips 100AD, 12 qts, $95-00. From Skyshop. $30 delivery to my door. (However I guess you could avoid the delivery for a personal pickup.)

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

 

[jetjr]

Bit of an update re new oil for Jabiru - thx to Ausfly Jab talk

 

Shell are visiting soon to strip some engines which have been running new oil for some time, then maybe it will be approved.

 

Its not a "new" oil but new application of an existing product apparently.

 

Also Jabiru confirmed soon to be available oil catch can, to fit on top and recycle blown out oil.

 

 

[facthunter]

Never believed in recycling oil from breather. Usually too much water in it. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

I agree but plenty - like mine - pump it out for fun it seems.

 

Catch can should let water go out into drain can but capture and let oil return slowly.

 

Some other types are already out there with good success Im told

 

 

[Paul davenport]

Automotive applications RECYCLE oil after it has been separated from the the blow by gasses ,only under extreme short drive situations does the oil go milky , as long as oil is kept hot (usually not a problem for our engines) . I suspect moisture is a problem in the catch can as it draws moisture in after engine is turned off and oil is cooling down. Why don't we have a crank case vent system much like the auto engines ,catch cans would not be required and quite possible engines would use less oil as the baffle (vapour separator) in the system would allow oil to drain back to sump

 

 

[jetjr]

Old thread Paul, sep 2013

 

Auto engines do this to lower environment emissions. Like many of these approaches it is at detriment to engines performance and increased maintenance

 

 

[Paul davenport]

I am sorry I cannot accept this excuse, it was what the car manufacturers used some years ago when close loop crank case vent systems were introduced now it's accepted practice and it is not the reason motors wear out . I understand we will never have the economy of scale production that the auto trade has but to ignore advances is to doom us the way of GA . A correctly designed system would would not go astray .

 

 

[jetjr]

Not understanding why you feel crankcase vapour capture is an advance?

 

Its done to reduce emissions, thats all

 

 

[Paul davenport]

Yes you are right no oil leak on the ground ,also no oil under car,no oil leak on belly of ac. Modern ideas tend to have a flow on effect to efficiencies goodness me wouldn't we all like to use less fuel ,car manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming to use modern ideas and now they boast about efficiencies and power increases using less fuel. One small step for ,well you get the picture I am sure,but to do nothing ensures we go backwards