NatFly 2014

[TK58]

The Board of RAAus has appointed me as NatFly Coordinator for 2014. I've been to two NatFlys at Temora (2011 and 2013) and two at Narromine (2002 and 2008) and have a few ideas myself, but I'm very interested in the views of others about previous events - what was good, what should be dropped, what hasn't been done before that might be worthwhile, what should be done differently, etc.

 

NatFly appears to have been in decline for a couple of years now. There are probably multiple factors in that, but we need to turn it around.

 

Please keep suggestions and feedback constructive if you want to be taken seriously.

 

Ian, if this is not an appropriate forum please let me know.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Even Natfly in the rain at Narromine was better than any of the three I went to at Temora. A bigger air museum doesn't make a better event.

 

 

[David F]

I have been to both Narromine and Temora.

 

My preferance is Narromine with the clubhouse giving a direct view of the runway (air conditioned)not too spread out

 

good catering. In my opinion the Temora option was good for those living in Temora no one else.It may be that with the reorganization at RAA they start listening to the members and bring our main event home.

 

David

 

 

[AVOCET]

Bring it back to Narromine

 

 

[robinsm]

been to all at Temora, none at Narromine, the location is immaterial, the attitude and attendance of the members is. The temora council has done a great job with their facilities. No good bitching about the show if you don't turn up and support it. You can hold the thing in Canberra/Brisbane/Melbourne/Perth, if people don't attend and show an interest then its fairly pointless. As has been said a number of times, its what you do, not where you do it that matters. It is a fly in so why are you worried about a little cross country flight to get to it. I live in Goulburn and would fly to just about anywhere in eastern oz to attend one. (My machine wont do Perth fast enough).

 

 

[old pilot]

Hi

 

How could you say it's immaterial where the Flyin is held the further south it's held the less queenslanders that will attend and that's not really looking after the rag and tube flyers which it should be ,I have been involved with ultralight aircraft since 1980 this was even the auf were formed have owned ten of various types ,have been to all but one natfly at narromine so I think that was nine none at temora as I was against it moving to there like many others I will not be attending whilst it's there.

 

But I do hope it goes well for you and I'm sure Dave caban will help you all he can

 

Regards

 

Old pilot

 

 

[VFR Pilot]

I think the venue makes all the difference.

 

In a way Natfly is sort of like a ctaf, since moving to Temora it now has no boundaries and everybody is spread out according to their performance.

 

At Narromine there was more togetherness, every one was closer you had more chance of bumping into people you knew, it sort of felt more homely. It was easier to see other peoples planes and pick up ideas and talk.

 

Thats what it was like for me anyway.

 

 

[robinsm]

I fly rag and tube, 60 knots full speed, 50kt cruise. 2 stroke engine. I have flown from Goulburn into Queensland, into Victoria and out to Broken Hill and Cameron Corner. If the distances area to much maybe we should make it ayers rock to be central. I, for one, have no problems with the distances involved whether it is Narromine, Temora or broken hill. I have flown into Queensland and will be attending flyins there this year. If I wanted a safe and local flyin I would push for Canberra. No matter where you hold it, you will not satisfy all people. How do the victorians feel about Narromine as opposed to Temora? Old pilot, If you don't attend it is your loss.

 

 

[old pilot]

Unless you chage your attitude it will go no where and that's why a lot of people will not attend I have flow all over oz and beyond that means nothing ,you go on a few long trips whilst out there you might get the chip off your shoulder as for my loss I don't think ,I know of lots that have and won't be going back

 

Cheers

 

 

[robinsm]

What, lost the chips off their shoulders? Theres no satisfying some people. My chip is alive and healthy and enjoying my flying and flyins, no matter where.

 

 

[planesmaker]

I believe that one reason Temora is not as popular is it is just too spread out. At Narromine the planes and exhibitors were all there together and one could walk around and talk to other builders etc. having planes parked tail to tail puts a lot more aircraft in a smaller area. I did never get around to catch a bus to look at some planes at Temora. It really does not create the atmosphere like Narromine had. My 2 cents worth. Tom

 

 

[Admin]

The location is always going to be a thorn in someone's side...that's the problem we have here in Australia. I am in Melbourne so I would much prefer it at Temora and so too I presume those in South Australia and Tasmania. Further North to Narromine will suit Qld better...or even further North to say Moree and if that was the case then Qld would be much happier but Vic, SA, Tas, Canberra and probably Sth NSW wouldn't be but then we could do away with the Northern Flyin and have a Southern Flyin instead. Having a Southern Flyin may well turn out to be more popular than the Northern Flyin.

 

Narromine is now also the home of SAAA

 

I don't think there is an answer that would satisfy everyone so all we would do is fight about it till the cows come home but what resulted from moving to Temora was more money in our Association's bank account given to us by Temora...something Narromine wasn't going to do.

 

Good luck TK58...you have a hard job on your hands and please, use this resource as much as you want to bounce ideas of everyone, get feedback etc as I am sure we all do want the event to be as successful as possible.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I agree with Ian, there's no way you are going to please everyone so there's probably not much point in trying. Add to that the fact that we're locked into Temora for a few more years and it all becomes a moot point.

 

For me I'd like to see some more flying happening. I appreciate the fact that it's a 'fly in' and not an airshow but part of the attraction is all the exhibitors. It would be nice to see them show off their products and not just sitting on the ground all day. It is called NatFLY after all and not NatLAND...

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Weather is an issue for a venue too. We have not been to Temora for NATFLY (but have visited other events there by car). Both husband & I are RAA members. He was never happy about the move to Temora. Now AusFly is an annual event at Narromine we are using that as our annual aviation fix. Easter is also a difficult time to get time off work (parents of children on school holidays get preference). We both have jobs that ignore public holidays, if Easter falls on our days off, we can get there - it hasn't happened for 3 years.

 

It takes all Friday to get to Natfly to find we have missed a whole day and the thing finishes on Saturday - so we only get one day, where we would prefer Sat-Sun, leaving Fri & Mon for travel.

 

Sue

 

 

[planesmaker]

Another point about Natfly, for me, the exhibitors are not the main attraction rather the comraderie and talking to other builders etc. I am not sure how this can be achieved physically at Temora but I am sure things can be rearranged to bring the whole thing closer in. I suggest studying the aerodrome plan and look at different arrangements to try and make it work better. Tom

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I think Sue has raised an interesting point about the timing of the event. It seems stupid to me to have it structured such that you have to extend an already long weekend just to accommodate travel. Holding it over the Saturday/Sunday would make a lot more sense to me.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I think the simplest way to double the attendance is to have 2 events. Natfly South and Natfly North.

 

 

[TK58]

Temora is the venue for the next 2 years at least. Each time the location for NatFly has been tendered it has been for a 3 year deal. The current deal goes until 2015. Like it or not, it is what it is and my task is to make it the best it can be. Can we get over the location for now and get some ideas to make this event all it can be?

 

 

[TK58]

I fly rag and tube, 60 knots full speed, 50kt cruise. 2 stroke engine. I have flown from Goulburn into Queensland, into Victoria and out to Broken Hill and Cameron Corner. If the distances area to much maybe we should make it ayers rock to be central. I, for one, have no problems with the distances involved whether it is Narromine, Temora or broken hill. I have flown into Queensland and will be attending flyins there this year. If I wanted a safe and local flyin I would push for Canberra. No matter where you hold it, you will not satisfy all people. How do the victorians feel about Narromine as opposed to Temora? Old pilot, If you don't attend it is your loss.

Couldn't agree more. I flew my 95.10 aircraft (single ignition 2 stroke, 55kt cruise, 2 1/2 hour no reserve endurance) from Gatton to Temora this year and loved every minute of it. I flew past Narromine on the way down (went through Orange and Gunnedah on the way back). I think Temora was about 2 hours further, but that just meant an extra 2 hours in each direction doing what I love doing - flying.

 

I'm a relative newbie (reached 200 hours on the NatFly trip) and the flying there and back is a big part of why I go to flyins. Some of the comments here make me worried that might change as I get more experienced. I hope not.

 

 

[TK58]

... we would prefer Sat-Sun, leaving Fri & Mon for travel.

Thanks Sue. I've wondered myself why the event seems to wrap up on Saturday. It's been suggested that some people prefer it that way so they can go to NatFly and still spend a couple of days with the family. On the other hand for people like you who travel a long way to be there, being able to travel down on Friday without missing a major part of the event is a consideration.

 

At the moment the dates are 18 - 20 April (Friday to Sunday). I'm thinking to schedule something more interesting than departures on the Sunday.

 

 

[TK58]

Another point about Natfly, for me, the exhibitors are not the main attraction rather the comraderie and talking to other builders etc. I am not sure how this can be achieved physically at Temora but I am sure things can be rearranged to bring the whole thing closer in. I suggest studying the aerodrome plan and look at different arrangements to try and make it work better. Tom

Thanks Tom. I'll certainly take that suggestion on board. This year was a definite improvement on 2011 (the only other Temora event I have personal experience of) in that regard. Sadly, in part at least, I think that's because 2013 was a much smaller event than 2011. Nonetheless, I will put some effort into making the layout as compact as possible.

 

One of the challenges with that is there doesn't seem to be a straightforward way to know beforehand how many will be there. This makes all sorts of things more complicated, including the layout, the catering, etc. Anyone got any ideas on how we can get a reasonable idea of numbers (say within 30%) before the event?

 

 

[TK58]

I think the simplest way to double the attendance is to have 2 events. Natfly South and Natfly North.

That's why NORRAAus was invented. But double the events means double the cost and double (maybe not quite) the effort. And my task is to run NatFly 2014. If they can do a single national flyin in the US (Oshkosh) - which is about the same geographic size as Australia, why can't it work here?

 

One suggestion I've received is to make NatFly more of a social flyin, as apparently it used to be, and leave all the razzamatazz to AUSFLY. Any thoughts on that?

 

 

[Admin]

A few years back I suggested to Carol that we have a display of building a kit aircraft from start to finish over the NatFly event. We organised a Storch to be built and it was done, from start to finish...it turned out to be a very very popular display with many people giving a helping hand. The main person was Storchy Neil (user on this site) and I think Tomo, also a user of Recreational Flying gave a big hand to getting the project completed over the course of the event.

 

Wonder whether this would be worth organising again?

 

Feedback I got this year were the forums were the same old same old ones...just some feedback!

 

How about a painting an aircraft display or engine rebuild (Rotax or Jab) from start to finish display...could get someone from Floods with a mic explaining everything he is doing as he rebuilds the engine on their stand.

 

Why not have a theme like "Woman in Recreational Aviation" or ??? and run events based on that theme

 

We need a long long list of exciting things happening to bring the visitors back and them to leave saying they just didn't have the time to watch/see everything...many forums have been done to death and perhaps need a little rest for a year or two.

 

Many users here can play a musical instrument and there was some talk a year or two ago about having them bring their instruments for evening jam sessions at the Recreational Flying stand as entertainment.

 

In the centre forecourt have a square area marked off where an event is happening every hour both aviation and non aviation related...from jugglers to fixing a flat tyre contest

 

 

[TK58]

Now that's the kind of input I was hoping for. Thanks Ian.

 

 

[DWF]

I am in WA and so it is only a few degrees heading change between Narromine and Temora. As has been said already, where ever you choose it will not satisfy everyone. I attended the first and third NatFlys at Temora and found it to be a very suitable venue - good airstrips, no CTA, OK weather, plenty of room, supportive town and people, etc. I have not attended one at Narromine and so cannot comment on that venue.

 

The location does not matter as much as what is there and what happens.

 

Likes

 

• 'Train' (and other vehicles) to take people around the airfield.
   
   
  
• Food court/dining in one central location
   
   
  
• Displays of new (and not so new) aircraft types available
   
   
  
• Commercial displays/shops of aviation goodies available
   
   
  
• Some interesting forums
   
   
  

 

 

Dislikes

 

• Too spread out - long distances to walk - too long for me.
   
   
  
• Long waits for bus to town.
   
   
  
• Long distance between forums
   
   
  
• Tech, Ops and Instructor forums on Thursday - most people are still in transit.
   
   
  

 

 

Suggestions

 

• Main programs and forums to be on Saturday and Sunday to allow for travel.
   
   
  
• A forum/workshop (separate from the General Meeting) to discuss the strategic direction for RA-Aus conducted by a facilitator with presentations from the President/Board, General Manager and Structure Review Committee.
   
   
  
• A forum on how to set up a weather station at your airfield and get it on the net. What equipment is required/recommended and some costings.
   
   
  
• Trains to be more frequent and visit ALL forums and locations of interest.
   
   
  
• Pilot/crew ONLY flight planning area with NAIPS access etc.
   
   
  
• Seating be available at various places around the site so people can sit and rest, watch the aircraft and have a chat.
   
   
  
• A different theme/activity/attraction each year so it is not the same event each time.
   
   
  
• A forum on the introduction of a Safety Management System for RA-Aus and how a SMS can be implemented at small Flight Training Facilities.
   
   
  
• Forums recorded and made available on a DVD following the event.
   
   
  

 

 

Perhaps a thread called "Why would/do you come to Natfly?" would provide some useful input.

 

DWF