NatFly 2014

[TK58]

Some good suggestions there, thanks DWF.

 

Keep 'em coming folks.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

That's why NORRAAus was invented. But double the events means double the cost and double (maybe not quite) the effort. And my task is to run NatFly 2014. If they can do a single national flyin in the US (Oshkosh) - which is about the same geographic size as Australia, why can't it work here?One suggestion I've received is to make NatFly more of a social flyin, as apparently it used to be, and leave all the razzamatazz to AUSFLY. Any thoughts on that?

2 events creates 2 sets of experiences, a bit of competition amongst events, the opportunity to try different things. It also give people an alternative event to go to.

 

The RAA could use the event as a way of getting the RAA together more than a trade show (which is a big part of oshkosh).

 

The costs would be neutral as you would get a lot more people coming. Obviously this will only work if there is local interest.

 

 

[TK58]

Sure. I'm not arguing against multiple events, although we do need to be careful not to spread our resources too thin. NatFly roughly breaks even (although about half its budget comes from RAAus, so not sure if that's really breaking even), but NORRAAus incurred a significant loss. Not sure about WestFly, I haven't seen its budget.

 

In any event, my focus at present, and the reason for this thread, is to make NatFly the best it can be in 2014. Providing an alternative flyin isn't going to achieve that, regardless of the merits of the idea.

 

Sounds like you're supportive of the idea that NatFly should be more of a social occasion rather than an exhibition? Is ther a reason it can't be both?

 

 

[Powerin]

I'd like to suggest an operational improvement. Signage and maps. It may seem an insignificant thing, but you can improve the experience simply by having adequate maps and signs. How many of you have wandered up and down long taxiways looking for a clue as to which hanger is which and whether it is private or whether there is a forum hiding inside? Where were those toilets again?

 

Invest a bit of money and get some signs printed up (even laminated A3 paper would do) for the hangars and forums, the bus stops, the food court, RAAus headquarters, the PA announcer and even some lot numbers for the exhibitors. And then have some more at key positions to point people in the right directions....such as a sign pointing down the taxiway showing which hangars are wayyy down there. Or the bus stop is that way, the toilets are over there etc etc.

 

I know when you are organising an event these things seem obvious, but you have to look around your site through the eyes of a stranger.

 

 

[TK58]

With you on that one and it's already on the list. The handout maps this year left much to be desired (colour for one thing) and signage was limited. For next year the plan is to do a decent map in colour and have a whole bunch of signs pointing to the forum locations, toilets, etc.

 

 

[rankamateur]

One of the best things at Narromine was the quality of the non-aviation ladies activities, not many pilots wives are nearly as interested in aircraft as my wife, and she would rather tour Searle's rose nursery anyway!

 

 

[coljones]

With you on that one and it's already on the list. The handout maps this year left much to be desired (colour for one thing) and signage was limited. For next year the plan is to do a decent map in colour and have a whole bunch of signs pointing to the forum locations, toilets, etc.

and a daily timetable handout / diary board /message board.

 

best wishes

 

 

[TK58]

Thanks Steve. I'll see make sure the ladies program gets some attention.

 

Thanks Col. Good idea.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You need to work on building the crowd, maybe invite a vintage car club out for the weekend as well. give the food vendors some decent profits.

 

 

[rankamateur]

A few years back I suggested to Carol that we have a display of building a kit aircraft from start to finish over the NatFly event. We organised a Storch to be built and it was done, from start to finish...it turned out to be a very very popular display with many people giving a helping hand. The main person was Storchy Neil (user on this site) and I think Tomo, also a user of Recreational Flying gave a big hand to getting the project completed over the course of the event.Wonder whether this would be worth organising again?

 

Feedback I got this year were the forums were the same old same old ones...just some feedback!

 

How about a painting an aircraft display or engine rebuild (Rotax or Jab) from start to finish display...could get someone from Floods with a mic explaining everything he is doing as he rebuilds the engine on their stand.

 

Why not have a theme like "Woman in Recreational Aviation" or ??? and run events based on that theme

 

We need a long long list of exciting things happening to bring the visitors back and them to leave saying they just didn't have the time to watch/see everything...many forums have been done to death and perhaps need a little rest for a year or two.

 

Many users here can play a musical instrument and there was some talk a year or two ago about having them bring their instruments for evening jam sessions at the Recreational Flying stand as entertainment.

 

In the centre forecourt have a square area marked off where an event is happening every hour both aviation and non aviation related...from jugglers to fixing a flat tyre contest

As one of the advantages of driving to Natfly instead of flying, I got tangled up in the organisers wind down concert and bar-b-que the night it all wound up two or three years ago, it was by far the most enjoyable part of the week-end for me. Not a single aviation related song as I remember but a hell of a nice bunch of people, not sure if they would enjoy being tied up during the fly-in. Russell is a damned good guitarist I wouldn't mind listening to him for a few hours Saturday night if you could wheel it.

 

 

[goodcom]

I agree a lot with DWF's list, esp. about it being too spread out (its not easy to get around all the different planes, it's meant to be a fly'in), its needs to have the main program Saturday/ Sunday, and need a on ground unleaded refuelling option. There is a lot of rotax's out there (not sure if something was done this year, as I wasn't there)

 

James

 

 

[TK58]

Mogas on field is definitely on the list. It wasn't available this year.

 

I agree about the entertainment. I found the evening entertainment (and atmosphere) better at NORRAAus than at NatFly. The list is growing. This is good.

 

 

[metalman]

I've been to two natfly's at Temora, I didn't go last time as I'm going to AUSFLY ,I'm just looking at alternating the events.

 

I enjoyed the event both times but for me it's about people ,the sales stuff is good ,I like to see what's about ,but the big draw card is the people I've met on various forums around the country, I don't know what we could do to foster that but a few ideas ,having parking and camping in aircraft type areas, all the jabirus together, all the tecnams, all the skyfoxs/kitfoxs, it would let the pilots with a bit in common to get together , perhaps have a couple of mini flights to nearby places of interest ( maybe a 45min flight) and encourage the people displaying new aircraft to do test flights, for every dozen tyre kickers( or would that be three dozen) there would be a cashed up customer, perhaps have a couple of the schools on site doing TIFS and advertise that anyone can come along and fly a plane for less $$$ than a restaurant feed ,there isn't a pilot alive that can resist watching an aircraft take off and land, give em something to watch. And what about some sort of competition, our aero club does one a month and there would be at least two spectators for every pilot, nothing big just a spot landing or STOL comp, and having it on the Saturday and Sunday would give us a bit more time to get there and back .also keeping it as condensed as possible ,the years I was there it was pretty spread out. Another thought is having the AGM there, it makes perfect sense ! Well it appears I might have a couple of ideas!!

 

Matty

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

There was a questionnaire about NATFLY a couple (?) of years ago from RAA - the results might still be kicking around the office somewhere.

 

Last year the webcam just showed the last frame from the previous Natfly (the Jab tent closing up). Could that be active again and have more than one vantage point.

 

As for working out how many are coming - SAAA have a "booking" form on their Ausfly site. No charge to book in, although you can book & pay for dinner etc. That way they know how many are coming, and how many flying in. Perhaps we could do something similar - it isn't a commitment, but could given an estimation of the numbers attending.

 

Sue

 

 

[DWF]

Get the program and forum list out a lot earlier so we can see what is on and if it is worth coming and to plan what to see/do when.

 

Surely the forum program on the web site can be done better than the poorly scanned copy of an (almost) hand drawn list.

 

And keep it update - on the web and on Facebook.

 

As Sue suggests, get the web cam working properly. Maybe have it do a tour of some of the visiting aircraft.

 

Can the AGM be 'broadcast' live on the web? It would be riveting viewing for those members who cannot be there in person.

 

Use 'Survey Monkey' (Google it) to canvass member opinion and ideas.

 

DWF

 

 

[Air Creation]

Have been to both locations and the postive influence of the Temora towns folk is exceptional in supporting our event. To all the Do..ers to create a great event as Natfly, I commend you.

 

Natfly and the team of Do..ers will always improve, grow and learn to achieve the best effort possible for a great event.. so get over where it is or was in the past, our postive support as members is priority.

 

Good luck TK58, the comments to bring the action closer, make it more interactive without being spreadout is a good start IMO.. study the airfield layout and look to keep the people in touch as they move amongst the awesome displays that have been acheived by the supporters. Also the days are important, IMO Sunday should be a day where there is more flying with visitors taking a flight and maybe they will be our next newbies to join in the fun! By the way, my journey is from the Alice, so the trip is fairly long no mater how you do it..! May Natfly 2014 be safe, fun and the best ever..!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I attended Temora 2010 and also presented a forum. Don Windsor who flew down with me from way up North was a volunteer aircraft parking director. Somewhere on this forum this subject of Temora as a venue was previously discussed. I had a very positive experience at Temora and I was very impressed with the facilities that the town of Temora has provided at some expense to them.

 

As Sue suggested you need to dig up those reports that were submitted to an RAA survey. For one, I took the time to make many suggestions for improvement.

 

Any event will have it's negatives and pluses, and it's really what you as an individual are prepared to get out of the event. Many people bagged the 2010 event, I personally really enjoyed it, and I have done Oshkosh, so do have something to judge from, although I do agree that Narromine is perhaps a more intimate site.........Maj....

 

 

[pmccarthy]

One of the most memorable displays in 2012 was the restored greyhound buses. It would be good to have car or truck or motorbike club displays, perhaps changing from Sat to Sun. The clubs would come to see the planes.

 

 

[biggles]

Many users here can play a musical instrument and there was some talk a year or two ago about having them bring their instruments for evening jam sessions at the Recreational Flying stand as entertainment.

Hmmm , might even encourage Farri to fly down in his Drifter , Pud may come also . He knows a few chords !

 

Bob

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

TK58.....There have been several threads on this over the past few years but I will try and give you an idea of what would make NATFLY attractive for me again.

 

I know everyone is not a builder but I am.

 

I would like to see a variety of hands on mini forums covering such technical subjects like:

 

-Aircraft electrical wiring and crimping

 

-Aircraft material selection

 

-Installing undercarriage bungees

 

-Installing instruments

 

-Plumbing fuel systems

 

-Using a torque wrench

 

-Covering techniques (which we have had)

 

-Making Nicopress control cables (which we have had)

 

-Selecting aircraft AN hardware

 

-Prop balancing

 

-Safety wiring bolts etc

 

-Rigging your aircraft

 

-Aircraft painting

 

-Alternative engines (which we have had)

 

These are just a few of what could be done. The first Temora NATFLY had the museum engineers there doing some of this. Was fantastic and I learnt a lot. Yes....I know they need to be paid. We are a multi million dollar organisation. How about RAA cough up some dough and pay professionals to present these? Give something back to the membership.

 

There is a world class museum on site. Other than the first year where the engineers were involved there has been no other support there I could see. Maybe they give us a chunk of money which I dont know about? I know they flew the Spitfire this year after people suggesting they would like to see more input from them. When I last suggested this I was shot down with the excuse that it costs $5000 or there abouts to put on a show from one of their aircraft. NATFLY is supposed to be the annual RAAus showcase. Where we all meet and show new people what we can offer them. In business you need to spend a few dollars to make a few.

 

Others have suggested inviting vintage car and bike clubs for the weekend. There are plenty of camping areas so why not. I know Easter time there are many other things on for these groups so some notice would need to be given. I went to Omaka Classic Fighters this year instead of NATFLY. They have a great show of vintage cars, bikes and machinery. They also had a marquee that was home to half a dozen vineyards for the weekend. This was on the field and was a great spot to meet and the non flying partners loved it! You could buy a wine glass for $2 that had the Classic Fighters logo on it. Its not an issue for people driving as most camp at the field. Night time concerts at the airport would be great. The band at Omaka was a Credence Clearwater Revival band and were fantastic. They have concerts at Oshkosh I believe?

 

The lack of insight from the RAA regarding bringing the younger generation on has always astounded me. Look at the average age of RAA members. With out the up and comings, RAA is going to cease to exist in 20 years time. I have spoken before how I offered to organise a kids program for 2012 NATFLY. The complete lack of enthusiasm from any of the organisers blew me away. I was going to organise and run the whole show! I obtained quotes and sponsorship and had the whole thing organised subject to a go ahead from the RAA. They couldn't even do that!

 

I might sound dirty about all this. I am a little, but more disappointed that the people at the top couldn't or wouldn't see that NATFLY was on the down hill slide.

 

I have been to NATFLY Narromine and Temora. Both are great venues, each with there pros and cons. Guys lets face it, Temora has done a great job with their facilities. Each year I camped there I saw improvements. We have a great group on the ground there at Temora. The SAAA have adopted Narromine as their home and have Ausfly now. Its too late to ponder about whether we should still have NATFLY there. If you think its too hard getting to Temora rather than Narromine, and that is the reason you wont go, you have serious issues.

 

The food court selection in 2012 was great. A good variety of healthy and not so healthy options.

 

I would like to see more suppliers there so I can touch and look at their products. Before I left for NATFLY 2012 I emailed a supplier who had been there previously. I wanted them to bring some things I wanted to buy and was told they wernt going that year as it wasnt worth it. What does that tell you?

 

I do hope you can turn it around and make it worth going to again as I really want a place to go where I can talk plane stuff with folk who have the same interests as me and I can learn how to do things the safe and correct way.

 

Scotty

 

 

[tillmanr]

Best wishes TK58. Part of your task is to keep the enthusiasm of the presenters sustained. I attended a forum for an Australian manufactured aircraft this year and the presenter was quite open about the fact that he had used up his time, energy and enthusiam before the Saturday forum began. When a number of members asked questions relating to what had been discussed at the Friday forum they were given short shrift. I feel it is important that you and presenters appreciate that all members cannot attend every day of the event. My simple suggestion is to have stand where members can check the calibration of their torque wrenches. I am sure that this is not done often enough. Again good luck.

 

 

[jerrajerra]

Invite Ch31 from Melb to record a few hours with the guys from Plane Crazy DownUnder doing commentary. They could hotel it at cost to NatFly to promote the event.

 

 

[Camel]

The previous CEO and the lack of support to some people in aviation has turned me right off Natfly and the fact Casa played big brother doing ramp checks, in the past Casa personnel were there and enjoying and getting informed of new products and I have socialised with Casa personel in years gone by, but I don't care to bother when they want to make their presence felt. Also some of the forums were the same old and losing interest, although there have been some great maintenance and construction forums. The instructors forums were a waste of time. What happened to Steve Runcimans survey ?

 

I may return to Natfly when RAA improve their attitude to their members, aircraft manufacturers and Instructors. I will not return until Natfly is for the members and not for the big knobs to show who is Boss.

 

People go to social events and forums to get informed and make friends not to be hassled and humiliated.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Regarding knowing how many attendees, register your intention to fly in, receive an official registration sticker, place on inside of windscreen and CASA will waive their intention to do a ramp check on your aircraft....that should increase the numbers.

 

Alan.

 

 

[rankamateur]

The best part about Narramine that just doesn't happen at Temora is Sunday morning with a great mass of enthusiastic people able to sit just back from the side of the active runway watching the departing aircraft, it was like a tennis match, next run-up, and take-off and next plane, eyes right! I was fun watching them do a double take when we blasted off in the Savannah, He did turn on the climb rate for the crowd. The departures on the diagonal strip over in the back corner at Temora are almost out of sight, out of mind for the punters.