Light Plane Crash Parkinson

[cooperplace]

It's all in the thread Avocet flys againCheers Mike

where is that? I can't find it. Thanks

 

 

[coljones]

Yamaha 100 beeweeCheck out thread : avocet flys again .for the full story

Mike[ATTACH=full]23293[/ATTACH]

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/avocet-flys-again.63465/

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Bloody weak those nose wheels aren't they

Sharrap yer daft bugger,. . . . .

 

Maybe it had something do do with the S K I L L of the pilot ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

 

[Teckair]

TheIt has been said that we make our own luck...

That is true a lot of the time, but when you go into tall timber like that your future is in the lap of the gods. I have heard people say they would stall the plane onto the top of a tree in that situation, which is a bit of a joke considering the same people do not practice glide approaches, and even if you did it probably would still be a matter of luck. Others say they would float down onto a rain forest canopy in a Drifter which is just as silly as once a Drifter stops flying it does not 'float' it falls like a homesick manhole cover.

 

 

[Teckair]

Sharrap yer daft bugger,. . . . .Maybe it had something do do with the S K I L L of the pilot ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I doubt it.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Dazza, you made a spelling mistake .........!!!!

Don't worry DAZZA. . . . . I make delibrate speling and ridiculus gramatikal mistakes al the time, just to keep some of the more "Erudite" and otherwise ediffimakated colonial blokes from geting boored with the eksiting subjekt of forum ayveayshun subjects, with which they are quite obvioulsy not that intrested. . . . . .

 

Pihl

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I doubt it.

Hmmmm,. . . .you could well be correct,. . . . . . dunno. ( about doubting it I mean of course.. . .)

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Crashed his aircraft then rode off into the night...... .Alan.

Did you mean. . . he RODE off into the night Alan,. . . because if there was a creek nearby, perhaps he could have. . . . . . .ROWED off into etc. . . . . .

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

That is true a lot of the time, but when you go into tall timber like that your future is in the lap of the gods. I have heard people say they would stall the plane onto the top of a tree in that situation, which is a bit of a joke considering the same people do not practice glide approaches, and even if you did it probably would still be a matter of luck. Others say they would float down onto a rain forest canopy in a Drifter which is just as silly as once a Drifter stops flying it does not 'float' it falls like a homesick manhole cover.

True, Teck. It's a long drop from the top of some trees, with few branches and little undergrowth to slow the fall.

 

We can never have too much training for when things go wrong. Glide approaches are a crucial skill. Although it is not legal for RAAus pilots to stop the engine in flight, I have it on good authority that gliding with a stationary prop is quite different to having the engine idling. Perhaps our BFR should be more rigorous, with a silent glide approach thrown in.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

It is legal with a CFI. And IMHO should be done with ALL advanced students before and after cert issue.

 

 

[facthunter]

OK sometimes the glide is better with the prop stopped. (Most people don't believe that, but it's true). A fast idling motor, (like a six cyl jab) will make a much longer glide than something that idles slowly. It used to be common to switch off the ignition to simulate eng failure. It's not recommended as a few times it has resulted in the key coming out of the dash and ending up on the floor "somewhere".

 

Regarding Motz comment. I would probably agree with that.

 

The engine stopped routine was done in the "olden" days but it is quite hard to stop some engines. even with throttle closed and switches off. You sometimes had to stall the plane in a turn to do it. It was done in conjunction with an engine windmilling restart in flight exercise. This often required the aircraft to be placed in a vertical dive for thousand feet or so . Vne comes up fast in a Chipmunk.Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

OK sometimes the glide is better with the prop stopped. (Most people don't believe that, but it's true)... Nev

It must vary between aircraft. My source found a faster rate of descent without prop spinning. Either way, we all need experience of this (preferably with an instructor) before it happens for real.

 

 

[facthunter]

You are completely correct about the variation. O.K. The worst situation is with a CS prop and a reduction gear on the engine. A turbo prop is the really extreme situation where the prop can absorb more power in a flame out situation than the normal thrust provides. This is why they operate with auto feather..

 

I reckon the 912 would stop at all but high airspeed with the switches turned off. The area of the prop blades have a big bearing on the drag when stopped too. Toothpick ones would have less drag. It would be nice to know what your particular plane would do. Learning the first time it happens is not optimal. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

The bennifits are huge. How many pilots use the FCMOST check or something like it? Is there a restart in that accronim? No, because it was designed for aeroplanes that windmill. Jabs and rotaxes will stop at best glide ( generally). So an FCMOST aint gunna start the engine untill you actually hit the button.

 

Thats just an example. Restarting the engine in a glide is something that can/should be practiced to a be a nice controlled CALM procedure.

 

Also, the shock factor of seeing the writing on the back of the prop needs to be trained out. And they can learn tricks like using the starter to move the prop out of your vision etc.

 

 

[facthunter]

Situational awareness is critical. If there is a great thump noise and a bulge in the cowl with black oil coming out of it. You could consider the engine is no more use except to keep the aeroplane C of G in the right place . If the cowl is deformed and spread open there will be a marked effect on glide angle. Cope with the unexpected. Not all engine failures are copybook. There may be a fire risk associated/evident with the one you have, making getting on the ground as quickly as possible, a top priority. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... the shock factor of seeing the writing on the back of the prop needs to be trained out....

Now there's an idea, Motz. Print the re-start acronym in bloody big letters on the back of the prop-

preceded by that wonderful line from "Dad's Army" : DON'T PANIC.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Hahaha.. Like your thinking there mate...

 

 

[Tomo]

Also, the shock factor of seeing the writing on the back of the prop needs to be trained out.

This is probably more important to worry about than worrying about how much the glide increases with a stopped engine I reckon. The shock factor is pretty crippling to a situation.

 

 

[farri]

I read an aticle in an American 'Ultralight' magazine, that stated, " You should always carry a rope. In the event of an engine failure over trees, choose the bigest, bushiest tree and fly right into the middle of the canopy. If you try to stall onto the top of the tree, the aircraft may fall from the tree. The rope will assist you to climbe down because you would probably get more injury from falling from the tree than the crash. " What a load of bull s**t.

 

Anyone who thinks they can stall onto the top of a particular tree, land gently, then use the rope to climb down the tree, has got s**t for brains... Anyone who thinks they can gently land the Drifter onto the top of a tree, is even stupider.

 

I`ve had enough engine failures to know the score. If the engine fails, the method to achieve the best result is to have a suitable place to land within gliding distance and the skill to land safely. Even this won`t guarantee a safe landing as the terain may be completely different to what it looked like from the air and not be suitable at all.

 

If the pilot doesn`t have the required skill for the particular aircraft they are flying, the landing might still end in disaster even on suitable terain.

 

Frank.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you are 'shocked and awed" you are a passenger.. Seriously though there are lots of things to do and an engine stopping should not be entirely an unexpected event. Your takeoff briefing to your passenger( and you) should consider the actions YOU will do if the donk goes quiet there , there and there.. So you in part have prepared yourself and when it doesn't happen, (most times) you carry on happy.. More realistic training perhaps? I'd like a quid for every simulated engine failure I have done.. IF you live in hope alone you won't perform well when it goes pear shaped. nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

There was that American test pilot who attributed his long career to not being surprised when something went wrong; but being surprised when it didn't.

 

 

[facthunter]

Awareness and prepared is not pessimism. It's part of your job as a pilot of a flying machine. You can't just pull over and lift the bonnet. Nev

 

 

[rankamateur]

Don't worry DAZZA. . . . . I make delibrate speling and ridiculus gramatikal mistakes al the time, just to keep some of the more "Erudite" and otherwise ediffimakated colonial blokes from geting boored with the eksiting subjekt of forum ayveayshun subjects, with which they are quite obvioulsy not that intrested. . . . . .Pihl

Looks a lot like dyslexia to me Phil, it's OK though, it hasn't killed me yet.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF you can spell Dyslexia, you don't have it. That Philperry has stayed too long in angleterre to be trusted anymore..Nev

 

 

[Methusala]

When viewed from the ground , looking upwards, tree cover looks a LOT LESS dense than when flying over it at one or two thousand feet and looking down! Don