Herm Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Thanks for you point of view Turbs.. Be assured if nothing else, I am we'll aware of what I said or at least what I was trying to impart. Not that I am not seeing your point of view, but I still have trouble piling all the problems into one box and then some suggesting that all jab motors are rubber band dead weights. That's where the numbers game come into play really. More jab issues the more it becomes all jabs etc etc.. Could spin this for hours. It seems that some points of my comments are latched onto and others that are descriptive to the comment are ignored? Anyway as a rocket scientist that's the way I see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Using over the top descriptions achieves nothing at all. Think about it. Some senior exec in RAAus said"..." So what. I would not be aware of any who would be particularly qualified to make such a comment. I believe such an investigation could be carried out with justification, but if it results in having more restrictions on all engine servicing is that what you want? I have never seen a proper attempt to work out what should be done about the "apparent" unreliability of ALL ? jabiru engines. Lumping them all in the one basket is not helpful as not all failures have the same cause. I think the NZ body controlling civil aviation there was having some look at them, 10 or so years ago, but I don't recall anything being done to ground them. Flying in some old avro or auster or Fairchild, would entail being exposed to a similar reliability issue. Anything that has an old motor that has been overhauled. If there were a lot of overhauled Rotax's they would not be as reliable as the engines were originally. The main reason rotax are more reliable is being water cooled heads and valves that don't require attention the engines don't get fiddled with and they don't detonate. The basic aircooled Jabiru won't run for as long without attention so then we have to look at how well that is done and whether some engine installations and engine settings have the engine overheating. An overheating engine will not last. Any time I look through the Jabiru publications on motor matters , I feel that if all the stuff there is followed meticulously, most engine will give reasonable service. Any Jab engine seminar that I have gone too didn't convince me that the average "viewer " would get the message particularly . You don't need a GURU. A bit of thorough basics would go a long way. Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I just read the life cycle of a B29 engine just after WW2 was 65 hours FH. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I just read the life cycle of a B29 engine just after WW2 was 65 hours FH. Thirty six spark plugs per engine. That would keep most of us poor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Flying in some old avro or auster or Fairchild, would entail being exposed to a similar reliability issue. Anything that has an old motor that has been overhauled. If there were a lot of overhauled Rotax's they would not be as reliable as the engines were originally. The main reason rotax are more reliable is being water cooled heads and valves that don't require attention the engines don't get fiddled with and they don't detonate.The basic aircooled Jabiru won't run for as long without attention True statement, such a shame the guys at the controls dont fly with a suitable landing spot at all times....... Quote formatting added by Mod xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 To DazzaI live in Logan, and very good friends of mine live in Inala, and you who live in GG have a lot to say ,crime is rampant ,drugs galore ,and dont leave your vehicle unattended ,might not be there when you get back, for all you say about Jabs , what about the Rotax powered Tecnam Of Airsports Boonah that GAVE up not to much from you on that one ,pull your head in good people live in all sorts of areas (as do the bad people) cheers gareth The Tecnam engine that failed at Boonah was not due to the engine malfunctioning I can assure you - and I will leave it at that -. {Moderated} 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I just read the life cycle of a B29 engine just after WW2 was 65 hours FH. Don't see your point there Turbo , they only needed to run for about 18 hours to get to Japan and end the war....certainly not recreational aviation and I'm sure the Japs would agree !!..................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have heard through the grapevine that the first J with a factory fitted Rotax 912 engine has recently left the factory....anyone else have more info on this ??.................Maj.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Starvation or exhaustion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Flying in some old avro or auster or Fairchild, would entail being exposed to a similar reliability issue. Anything that has an old motor that has been overhauled. If there were a lot of overhauled Rotax's they would not be as reliable as the engines were originally. The main reason rotax are more reliable is being water cooled heads and valves that don't require attention the engines don't get fiddled with and they don't detonate.The basic aircooled Jabiru won't run for as long without attention True statement, such a shame the guys at the controls dont fly with a suitable landing spot at all times....... David I think that you need to check the records on reliability of old engines Gypsy Major case in point Mark 1 2 & 10 probably one of the most reliable series of engines ever built, more reliable than either Jab or 912's they very, very, very rarely broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Local 912 just chewed up a redrive, luckily on the ground mid way through a nav. Over $ 2 k repair bill and they did much of the work themselves. 1010 hrs in service. Not running it down just that problems happen to all makes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Local 912 just chewed up a redrive, luckily on the ground mid way through a nav.Over $ 2 k repair bill and they did much of the work themselves. 1010 hrs in service. Not running it down just that problems happen to all makes. More details Jetjr ???..........this has occurred in the past when people ran the engines on standard aircraft type oils (no synthetic additives). There were a couple of cases in the past when GA maint orgs maintaining GA registered Gazzelles used in flying schools. This is directly against Rotaxs recommendations for oil selection, and pretty much guarantees that the gearbox will incur damage down the road...Rotax gearboxes have been proven to be very robust, even after prop strikes if the correct oils are used........Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Problem is... every person has a different opinion on what is wrong with the Jab engine? So, what can we/they do to fix that? Start again? Just like --- Holden or Falcon. As long as the wheels keep spinning all is good. Regards Keith Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth lacey Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 to David Mason facts ,thats the problem there never is any given on most engine failures or planes down ,its as quoted by one CFI ,its unfortunate ,{moderated} Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Rick-p. The gypsy's WERE the most reliable engines particularly when used every day and given 'top" overhauls at around 400 hours. The sit too much and are not running all the original parts. Unfortunately they are not the same now. If we gave the jab more attention (of the right kind) they would be better. They often SIT too long between flights too. IF you start and taxi it 200 yards and leave it for three weeks the bores will be rusty every time. You should always make sure the engine is fully warmed up when started anytime. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I agree FH; with probably a dozen engines around a farm from whipper snippers to bulldozers, the biggest killer is not starting them and boiling off the moisture, and getting oil into the top halves of the seals. A simple enough thing to do, but you just have to (a) remember and (b) not put it off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluespot Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have heard through the grapevine that the first J with a factory fitted Rotax 912 engine has recently left the factory....anyone else have more info on this ??.................Maj.. In the current RAA mag there is an advt for a Qld based Recreational Aviation Flying School listing among their certified types a Jabiru - Rotax powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Starvation or exhaustion? One would get exhausted if you were starving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 In the current RAA mag there is an advt for a Qld based Recreational Aviation Flying School listing among their certified types a Jabiru - Rotax powered. There has bee several certified Jabirus with 912 motors going back over 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 The busted 912 has had the best of everything, regularly flown, maintained by LAME. He owns it. They are great engines but like anything they can and do break down. Expensive suckers when they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Jetjr, Ask him what oil he used in it, I'll bet you it was an aviation grade which has destroyed the gearbox. You need a synthetic blend for the gearbox....motorcycle type.........Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 That is all it would take to cause a gearbox problem in the Rotax. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 That is all it would take to cause a gearbox problem in the Rotax. Nev Guaranteed !.......it's happened before when people think they know more than the manufacturer of the engine............Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Uses shell type specially for the rotax.....plus4?. Owner is LAme and L2, works on rpt ac so does whatever is specified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Superbike plus 4 morphed into the shell recommendation with an aviation designation. Nothing wrong with that one. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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