Light Plane Crash Parkinson

[Guest Maj Millard]

Shell plus 4 seems to be doing the job, personally I've been using Valvolene Durablend 15w50 for about three years now and it's doing fine also. Two auto parts outlets carry it at the right price, so easily available . It's on the Rotax recommended list...........................Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

Engine oils up to the 50's would be OK in Gear boxes but many modern ones are NOT up to it. The earlier toploader gearboxes ran engine oil's but Borg Warner recommended against their use somewhere back in the 60's. The redrive in the Rotax is a special case where there are not only gears to consider but a damping clutch arrangement incorporated in the drive as well. Stick to what Rotax recommend. Nev

 

 

[rick-p]

Rick-p. The gypsy's WERE the most reliable engines particularly when used every day and given 'top" overhauls at around 400 hours. The sit too much and are not running all the original parts. Unfortunately they are not the same now. If we gave the jab more attention (of the right kind) they would be better. They often SIT too long between flights too. IF you start and taxi it 200 yards and leave it for three weeks the bores will be rusty every time. You should always make sure the engine is fully warmed up when started anytime. Nev

Hi Nev,

 

Have been following your advice for some time now and some other knowledgeable persons and no regrets so far.

 

As I have posted previously the outboard motor oil in the avgas has made a world of difference when you hand turn it over before firing it up.

 

Compression always feels equal all round.

 

I put in 50 mls of synthetic enhanced not full synthetic because too much oil is burnt off with little residue as you want some residue on the wall of the bores.

 

Avigas on it's own is very drying on the wall of the bores hence a greater risk of corrosion.

 

Also Nev before shutting down leave it idle for a minute to get rid of any moisture.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Rick-p

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hi Nev,Have been following your advice for some time now and some other knowledgeable persons and no regrets so far.

As I have posted previously the outboard motor oil in the avgas has made a world of difference when you hand turn it over before firing it up.

 

Compression always feels equal all round.

 

I put in 50 mls of synthetic enhanced not full synthetic because too much oil is burnt off with little residue as you want some residue on the wall of the bores.

 

Avigas on it's own is very drying on the wall of the bores hence a greater risk of corrosion.

 

Also Nev before shutting down leave it idle for a minute to get rid of any moisture.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Rick-p

Interested in this, Rick. I have been adding ordinary chainsaw 2-stroke oil to one tank. Works out at about 125:1.

Just like premix was a primitive solution for 2-strokes, I plan to adapt a chainsaw lube pump to squirt neat oil down the carby mouth before I shut down the engine.

 

What is the best breed of oil to maintain a film on the cylinder walls when I don't run my Jab for a few weeks or months?

 

 

[David Isaac]

Well years ago, my dear old dad would shutdown engines with Redex, a type of top lube. Nev would know if that is a good idea or not.

 

This next question is specifically for Nev ... since I own and operate a beloved Gipsy Major, why is the recommended shut down practice for the Gipsy to take the engine to about 1,000 RPM and then kill the mags and as the engine shuts down fully open the throttle? My old man would have killed me if I had ever dome that to an auto engine because he maintained that the raw fuel being drawn into the cylinders and not burnt would wash any remaining oil film off the bore and expose the cylinder to rust if the engine was left any period before restart.

 

 

[facthunter]

Running an engine to a fast idle and the shutting down by cutting the switches , is probably derived from the technique of shutting down a radial like a DC-3 where you CUT the FUEL and opened the throttle as the engine winds down. This is done to clear the products of combustion from the cylinders. There's a lot of flywheel effect in a big radial.

 

With the Gypsy engines we turned the fuel off, and ran them out of fuel and leave some throttle on but close it as the engine slowed down, ( as the engine stresses the mounts with the throttle open. )

 

If you cut them just on the switches a hot cylinder may "run on" or even run backwards a few turns.. This is not good for it.

 

Some engines like the Sidderly? Genet Major would probably keep running with the mags cut (post flight) as they were notorious overheaters.

 

Running the carb dry will fix your concerns David. It also ensures you will have the fuel selected ON before the engine starts next time. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thanks Nev you have confirmed my thoughts. I wanted your opinion before I gently questioned this wide spread practice at Luskintyre.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Well years ago, my dear old dad would shutdown engines with Redex, a type of top lube...

Sounds like good practice David, but how was it introduced into the engine? Getting oil into Jab bores is a major task. Removing four spark plugs takes ages. Adding oil to the fuel just upstream of the carby sounds better, but I prefer the idea of squirting oil down the carby throat.

 

 

[facthunter]

Separately. OK Injecting some oil into the intake before shutting down is a good short term fix. I would use an outboard oil for the extra corrosion inhibiting aspects of it's formulation. Strictly speaking the outboard oils are not for aircooled applications. It won't stay there long after starting next time anyhow. I wouldn't get it anywhere near the carby as it might run into some passages and affect it's calibration/performance.

 

The trick is to get it evenly distributed. To do that it would have to be a fine mist over a period of time SAY 15 seconds. This might be a bit hard to achieve . If you are in doubt remove the cowl and one plug from each cylinder and spray a bit in each one..

 

If you are adding upper lube to fuel you need hardly any. Probably an egg cup to each tank. The only oil I would use there is a recognised two stroke oil as other may foul plugs produce deposits,not mix well and lower the octane rating. Oil in fuel can make it "GO OFF" sometimes. Don't let fuel get stale in your tanks anyhow. If it's mogas chuck it in the old car. If it's avgas you shouldn't do that unless it is a pre converter 1982. model. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thanks for that, Nev. I seem to have got away so far without significant rust in the bores because of our dry climate, but when I start big trips that my change. I might install an oil injector between carby and intake system. My Bing has what seems to be the ideal spot; a blanked-off hole as shown in the image.

 

 

 

[jetjr]

What about products like flashlube? Was some talk a while ago about this helping prevent bore corrosion between runs

 

 

[facthunter]

Your choice. I listed the advantages of the Outboard 2 stroke, one important one being octane rating not affected While not much is being added I like to play it safe. I've used it for years with no problem at all. You might think a small amount is not worth doing, but the fuel is very dry, and the three piece oil ring on a shiny bore doesn't let much oil past. Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Interesting re 2 stroke oil.

 

Lots of discussion using rations of 200:1 in older diesel engines running modern fuels makes them run smoother, faster, .......better and I can vouch for this. I think related to fuel pumps mainly so not that relevant to aviation. Something to do with sulfur levels being too low to lubricate older pumps and seals.

 

Very strong advice to use older 2T rather than 4T or outboard oil types. I think outboard has water dispersant property or suitable for lower heat?

 

 

[M61A1]

What about products like flashlube? Was some talk a while ago about this helping prevent bore corrosion between runs

I have used Moreys upper cylinder lube a lot in my bikes. I can't compare it to anything else, but I can tell you I managed to get 150000 k's out of an early model GSXR, without touching the top end. It was still running strong when I sold it. I flogged it six days a week as a work hack, about 50/50 traffic/open road(120km round trip every day).

 

 

[Viper]

The Tecnam engine that failed at Boonah was not due to the engine malfunctioning I can assure you - and I will leave it at that -.{Moderated}

That,s a interesting comment from someone who has no problem flapping his jaws. As the pilot of the plane mentioned im a bit confused by this statement , the original forum stated that they tried to start the engine and nothing happened then they replace both CDIs and it burst into life I also spoke to the owner of the training school Ian recently and he told me the same as above so either you know something know one else knows or you are just a #$@% stirrer and by reading your other comments I think probably the later . However if it was caused by some other error pilot or whatever, based on your rantings about trans parity on Jabs, why continue with this {ill leave it at that} garbage as it is this kind of cover up that should be exposed so that when this happens to someone else it can be avoided rather than this obvious bias And I can assure you that if I have made a mistake I would like to know about it rather the hear your #$@% Maybe you should use this forum for what it was intended and leave you negative and arrogant comments for the pub where the person you are saying it to can react as nessasary

You have both had your say and that is the end of it in this thread. Take it to PM. - Mod xox

 

 

[Keenaviator]

A mate has run 2 stroke oil at 200:1 in his C180 for many years as a supplementary lubrication. It has performed flawlessly to TBO.

 

Laurie