Telephone numbers

[frank marriott]

I find interesting the amount of concern by some on this site about posting telephone numbers. Most people (maybe with the exclusion of people here) are in the white pages anyway, they are pretty big books.

 

Is it (like unidentified forum names) so insulting posts can be made without responsibility?

 

Maybe if correct names were included/identified then some of the personal/stupid/unhelpful type posts would be at least minimised.

 

 

[dodo]

No. Minimising personal details posted is to minimise the risk of identity fraud.

 

dodo

 

 

[sain]

Its because anybody, anywhere can read the phone numbers posted here and use them for whatever they want. Nuisance calls, marketing calls, political calls.

 

There is also the nastier side of the house, where somebody wants to make a threatening phone call. They grab a legitimate, know good call and spoof the caller id with that number. If I wanted to cause mischief for you frank, and I had your number a faked phone call from you to the RA-Aus general manager could cause you some grief.

 

Yes, in theory they could get those details from the phone book, but how many f marriotts are there in townsville?

 

And then there is profile building. If somebody, say for example NSA, wanted to build a profile on you then things like your phone number posted here would be matched to your address (white pages search), would be matched to details from another forum. And pretty soon, you have F Marriott, of <whatever address> Townsville QLD, interested in planes, fishing, scantily clad women in leather outfits. Member of whatever groups. From your facebook page they'd get your other interests, geolocation data from your images. IT systems and Phone make and model would likely come pretty quickly, which would allow them to figure out which particular variety of exploit they need to compromise your phone and turn it into a 24/7 listening device, or to syphon off all the data from your computer. Would you want the world to know your browsing history? Where your kids (or grandkids) go to school would come fairly rapidly. If somebody wanted to apply pressure to get you to do something, would they go that way?

 

The profile builds up pretty rapidly. I saw it done live on a person picked at random at a IT presentation. In under 5 minutes that person was uncomfortable with the amount of information found about them. In 20 minutes they were distinctly frightened. The information the presenter found on the family tree site was particularly disturbing for the individual.

 

Not using a real name on the internet is about protecting your friends and family as well as yourself.

 

Mutual respect for our fellow aviators, whatever their views, combined with common curtesey and judicious use of the ignore feature would probably go a really long way to achieving your goal of minimising personal/stupid/unhelpful type posts. I love the ignore feature.

 

Mind you I have noticed that its awfully quiet in here these days. *tap* *tap* *tap* Hello? is this thing on?

 

*Edit - disclaimer:* Just in case there are still people out there not ignoring me. The reference to scantily clad women in leather outfits was a poor attempt at a joke. I have no knowledge of Mr Marriott's like or dislike of scantily clad women in leather outfits.

 

 

[dodo]

I have no knowledge of Mr Marriott's like or dislike of scantily clad women in leather outfits.

It all adds to the profile

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I run into Frank fairly often and can report that I have not seen any scantily clad women in leather enter, or deplane from his aircraft. I will watch closely if future though, and if I do You'll be the first to know. Now some of my mates down in the Whitsundays however, that's another story entirely !!..................Maj...

 

 

 

[Admin]

Ok, I will pose a question then...how do you feel about the site Administration knowing the phone number and real name, but kept confidential, of those that use the site...would that stop a lot of the cruddy posts?

 

Mind you I have noticed that its awfully quiet in here these days. *tap* *tap* *tap* Hello? is this thing on?

Yes, figures have dropped but that is for two reasons...firstly they always do drop slightly during winter but the main reason is that the whole RAAus saga has firstly worn people out and secondly it has brought a lot of the arguments out. When the arguments come out the alpha male personalities run riot destroying everything in their path and then leaving behind a trail of destruction. No one likes to be told they are wrong, be argued with, not have their views at least heard without ramification of a full frontal attack...but this is the industry we are in and with human nature being as it is we just can't learn that we are all in this together with one single common interest...plus with age comes the argument that we become set in our ways and won't tolerate anyone else's opinion other than our own. It's a pity as imagine how much further we can go if this wasn't the case?

Don't worry though, I am taking steps to yet again resurrect the site to bring back the comrade and friendships of yesteryear where we can yet again sit around and chew the fat on recreational aviation and the great positive aspects of the industry

 

 

[sain]

Well, in my case the site admin(s) already know who I am and have a sort-of proven ability to keep it quiet.

 

I have been contacted by a third party group of misguided ra-aus enthusiasts looking for support (via contact details available only to ra-aus or here) last time ra-aus was all going pear shaped. That, to my mind, was an unacceptable use of my information and I was royally pissed about it. Realistically, without resorting to stupid lengths, there was little I could do to determine which of the two was responsible. If it happens again, the stupid lengths become less stupid. The issue, obviously, was disclosure of contact details to a third party without consent.

 

The issue I have with the site admins knowing it comes down to one of the simplest concepts in information security - the need to know principle. Why do they need to know? What aspect of the site can be better managed by having my contact details available to them, that can't be handled in any other way? The answer, in my mind anyway, is none. If I'm being rude, or racially offensive (inadvertently or otherwise), inappropriate, sexist (yes, I know the scantily clad women comment falls into that category), stalkerish, or otherwise making a pest out of myself then the admins can moderate me, ban me, ip address block me (if necessary) or take other steps. If I post illegal (copyright protected material, child porn, whatever) material then the admins can provide sufficient information to the police services that the police are able to identify me. As an end user I can't see why the admins would need that information.

 

The reason why I've provided it to them in the past is about the only reason I can see for it. I wanted to send a package to another forum member, and I was not personally known to them, and nor did I know their address (and I also didn't want to take the stalker route, outlined above). As I had previously purchased stuff from clearprop (i.e provided name billing address and shipping address) I requested Ian confirm my identity for the other forum member, so they could take appropriate action against me if they thought it was necessary (i.e if I started stalking them etc).

 

anyway, enough of my paranoid ramblings....

 

 

 

“Paranoia is just the bastard child of fear and good sense." (Charlie)

 

"Poor thing. Let's adopt it, give it a last name and raise it right." (Jace)

 

"You want to get it a puppy, too?"

 

"Sure. We'll call it Panic. It and little Paranoia can play together at the park and scare the hell out of all the other kids.”

 

― D.D. Barant, Back from the Undead

 

“Paranoia is just having the right information.”

 

― William S. Burroughs

 

source for both: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/paranoia

 

 

[Admin]

Firstly let me say that information about users on this site is never EVER given out to anyone...the very first time that that happens would completely destroy this site...several years ago an aircraft importer tried to blackmail me saying he had hacked the server and extracted all the email addresses and unless I let him advertise his range of aircraft on the site by 4pm that day he would send an email to them all saying how lax the security was on this site. It was later proven after police investigation that he hadn't accessed the data and was just trying a big blackmail con...I think we all know who that aircraft importer is.

 

The point is that someone may say they got details from here and if they do I need to know about it straight away so I can again enlist the services of the police as there is no way known that any information is ever released

 

The reason why site admin may or should know the name and phone numbers of the registered users on this site is very simple. Firstly it is very much a misunderstanding of people thinking that they have a right to do what ever they want, go where ever they want or use what ever they want just because it is on the internet. Yes, web sites let you read and see ONLY what they are willing to let you read and see however anything more such as what you can use/see/read etc by registering on a site is breaching through that free public service into being a "Private" service provided by the site administration. This means that site admin has the "right" to know who is using his "private" service...any attempt made to circumvent that right is illegally obtaining service by deception. So those that go around boasting how they have been able to deceive their way to access a privately provided service are opening themselves up for prosecution under "Obtaining Service by Deception" that will have far reaching implications of dishonesty and deceit and a police record of the same.

 

Another reason why a registered user's name and phone number could be asked for is the psychological aspects of posting. If a person is aware that their identity is clearly known by the admin of the service they are using they may be less inclined to not only cause trouble but also to look at what they are doing/posting etc in a more respectable light...less crap gets posted, less innuendo gets posted, more helpful and factual information gets posted etc etc etc

 

Finally another reason, and a very important one to site administrators, is the ability for site admins to be able to contact a user not only for that all important help and support but also, and as we know exists here on this site, but to keep email addresses etc up to date. This site has a huge load of users that now have incorrect email addresses. In most cases they have changed their email address and thus there is no way that they can be contacted to update them, and this is the reason why every single day, site admins get bounced post update notification emails by the bucket full. I for one are at a stage where the only way to stop it is to delete the user from the site however then comes all the "I got deleted" comments around the traps just because the user wouldn't update their email address. Having a phone number would enable a site admin to simply give them a ring and they can update the user's email address for them, no more inbox's full of bounced post update emails and no more bad blood prevailing...it becomes a service just like what the site admin is trying to provide and just simply asks for a little respect for what they are providing

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I run into Frank fairly often and can report that I have not seen any scantily clad women in leather enter, or deplane from his aircraft. I will watch closely if future though, and if I do You'll be the first to know. Now some of my mates down in the Whitsundays however, that's another story entirely !!..................Maj...

Maj, not sure if you stated your case very clearly, please add more pictures for a more thorough review.

 

By the way, with the thread title "Telephone Numbers", I thought this thread was a bitch session on the price of planes!

 

 

[facthunter]

Yeah, I thought someone was complaining about prices. Nev

 

 

[damkia]

I would suggest that the best place for the personal details of members to be created and kept by Admin would be on a USB stick and only plugged in to an offline computer when the need arises to consult the list. This would then put the list out of the way of anyone trying to maliciously gain the data it contains.

 

 

[Admin]

I would suggest that the best place for the personal details of members to be created and kept by Admin would be on a USB stick and only plugged in to an offline computer when the need arises to consult the list. This would then put the list out of the way of anyone trying to maliciously gain the data it contains.

...until you misplace the USB stick

 

 

[rankamateur]

I had no hesitation giving you, Ian, my phone number when you asked for it to help sort out the issues with the chat room, I have no problem with you keeping my number in case you need it again, for any of the reasons you described. I would think it was a bit rich if some third person posted my phone number on the public forum for another member to contact me when it could much more reasonably have been passed by private message. If I attended fly-ins and airshows handing out cards with my phone number on them, then I have chosen to put my details in the public domain, that is quite different to some one else making that choice for me.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Maj, not sure if you stated your case very clearly, please add more pictures for a more thorough review.By the way, with the thread title "Telephone Numbers", I thought this thread was a bitch session on the price of planes!

Oh alright as long as Ian doesn't ban me again !.........................

 

 

 

 

[sain]

Oh alright as long as Ian doesn't ban me again !.........................

nice drifter!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

nice drifter!

Yes I got to fly that one that day , very nice indeed !........

 

 

[eightyknots]

I have no problem with Ian knowing my phone number. I am sure that he is entirely trustworthy.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

How many here that object to Ian having their contact details go down to the shopping centre (or their wives without them knowing) and enter competitions and the like and happily fill in their details to win a tinney and a carton of beer or something like that...now that's a worry who is getting all of that info? I don't think you have no problem here with security when you think of all the other companies etc that have your details, if you are worried about your details being stolen from here, I think this site is the least of your problems imo...

 

David

 

 

[gareth lacey]

Ian ,who has control and ownership over this site is entitled to know the members details this is the same as google ,facebook,utube etc and i am very comfortable with this ,the others send you crap

 

and may even on sell your details, it also gives Ian the means to get rid of unwanted forumites ,and the odd weirdo ,any way if your that paranoid of giving out details ,go back to the cave and hibernate LOL

 

cheers Gareth

 

 

[flying dog]

I know it is getting a bit off topic, but how can you spoof a phone number?

 

That would surly need the person spoofing to have access within the phone system.

 

But what do I know.

 

 

[sain]

Wikipedia describes it fairly well, without going too far into the technical details.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing

 

 

[flying dog]

Sain,

 

MOST of that is not really applicable in Oz.

 

I shall do some digging - as dogs do - and find out how valid that link is for this country.

 

 

[sain]

true, but the last paragraph under technology and methods, and the valid reasons section will point you in the right direction.

 

have fun..

 

 

[flying dog]

Point me in the right direction?

 

My compas is broken.

 

If the phone rings, and there is a "NAME" it is because I put it there.

 

If the name is supplied by "the carrier" it is flagged as SUSPICIOUS!

 

I am really losing touch with the modern generation and how "gullable" people are trusting technology and phones.

 

I KNOW the VOICE of people and so if "Fred" calls me and it isn't Fred's voice, there are processes to determin what is going on.

 

C'mon! It isn't rocket science folks.