Well done Doug

[Old Koreelah]

...It is also a good idea to keep the runway below this 'line', as far as is practical, when operating in the circuit. DWF

...which runs counter to some of the advice we get about flying a circuits. If you are using power in the circuit, then your rate of descent is different to your best glide rate.

 

 

[Oscar]

When you run out of height and lift and you have no noise to turn on, it's called an 'outlanding'. Glider pilots do them all the bloody time, and we are trained to make extremely sure it isn't a 'crash'. Ending up in a field miles from buggery, full of cows and tillage rows, in an unbent aircraft is an inconvenience for the retrieve crew - it isn't a 'miracle escape' from certain death. Your peers expect you to do this without damaging the aircraft - and rightly so.

 

Other than in a vectored-thrust aircraft (or a helicopter in hover, but helicopters are an affront to the laws of physics at the best of times), it isn't engine power that is holding you up - it's airflow over the wings. Having an engine/s providing thrust is simply an extension of the conditions in which you can keep flying. And - to keep faith with an old saying:- 'size doesn't matter' -look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

 

Doug did an exemplary job of reacting to the situation, selecting a suitable landing site, securing his passenger - and FLYING THE AIRCRAFT.

 

Flying the aircraft starts from the moment that lift is greater than weight and does not stop until available lift is less than weight. A successful outlanding is one where the aircraft is securely on the ground before available lift has diminished below weight. A crash is a situation where the aircraft has not reached the ground before the available lift is less than weight. A crash is not the moment when the noise goes out - that is merely a significant change in the current flight dynamic.

 

Doug demonstrated that he appreciated very well the extent of the options available before weight would exceed lift and selected a landing site within that parameter. He secured his passenger to the extent of the material available. He maintained full control of the aircraft right to the ground. 10/10 for his actions.

 

And, I suggest, 11/10 for a brilliant demonstration of the fact that having the noise go out does not mean 'oh, shit, we're dead.'

 

 

[Oscar]

Centre a thermal with over 1000 fpm lift in it and feel the force.. but seriously, it's the decision-making process from 1000' AGL that matters. If you know the aircraft's glide capability and you have already selected a suitable bit of ground on which to land, then the rest is simply flying to get to that point safely. The engine is no more than a useful lump of weight to keep you within the c/g limits.

 

That said: thermalling an Airtractor is the stuff of legend. Some pilots have it..

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Centre a thermal with over 1000 fpm lift in it and feel the force.. but seriously, it's the decision-making process from 1000' AGL that matters. If you know the aircraft's glide capability and you have already selected a suitable bit of ground on which to land, then the rest is simply flying to get to that point safely. The engine is no more than a useful lump of weight to keep you within the c/g limits.That said: thermalling an Airtractor is the stuff of legend. Some pilots have it..

1000' agl isn't really high enough for proper development of a thermal - still going to be pretty small. Even paragliding I don't like getting much below 3000' when flying cross country.

Laurie

 

 

[Oscar]

Ingo Renner used to pull himself out from about 300 feet, but I am not so confident - therefore, at 1,000 and no lift, it was land. But in the context of this thread, that's not cogent: Doug handled an EFATO from 1200 feet, extremely well - a video that should be in every FTS,

 

 

[ausadvance]

have a reference line on your wing or strut; below it is a cone of places you can glide to. Above it is territory you can't make it to.

I have them set up on my aircraft at about 80 percent of what i can really do so I always have a bit up my selves. The best thing about them......is I havn't had to use them!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Cadet-Glider-Lands-On-Roof220549-1.html

[M61A1]

A crash is a situation where the aircraft has not reached the ground before the available lift is less than weight. A crash is not the moment when the noise goes out - that is merely a significant change in the current flight dynamic.

A crash is just the noise that happens from impacting something. If there was no crash, it was just a landing.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Ingo Renner used to pull himself out from about 300 feet, but I am not so confident - therefore, at 1,000 and no lift, it was land.

I was privileged to have Ingo as one of my instructors at Toc when I learnt gliding (or should I say when I learnt to fly, even though I'd been flying for a few years prior to that ...). On a day when there was no apparent lift and no-one could get away from the circuit (tow, circuit, land) he took me for a fly in the Caproni M2 motorglider. We used the donk up to 800ft IIRC, he switched off and we completed a Bronze which took most of the day, without using the engine again - a remarkable achievement in a motorglider with a fixed prop and also allowing me to fly very inefficiently for around half the time.

 

We got below 6-700ft several times and while I was frantically searching for the ideal spot to land (for practice, we could always have re-started the engine), instead Ingo was effortlessly scratching the virtually non-existent lift. He had/has that rare attitude of 'never-give-up'. We used to say he bought thermals before a fly and chucked them out when he needed them.

 

For those who don't know, Ingo Renner was Australia's first World Gliding Champion and the most remarkable flyer I have ever seen. He won the Championship a number of times, perhaps someone can post some details, he's well worthy of a discussion thread.