Idiot at the Gathering of Eagles

[Teckair]

I am sure the "powers to be" will view this thread as an indication of the culture of RAAus...the very subject that is on their minds at the moment

Yes unfortunately you most likely will be right, I don't get motivation of some of the posts.

 

 

[djpacro]

A beat-up involving aerobatics below 500 ft requires (apart from low level aerobatic approval) specific approval from CASA for location and time.

 

 

[Ultralights]

beat up? or Go-Around?

 

 

[cscotthendry]

beat up? or Go-Around?

Unless you do go arounds on a "knife edge" attitude and at what sounded like full throttle the full length of the strip, then this was definitely a beat up.

BTW admin, no one has as yet identified whether this guy was a Rec pilot or VH reg so I think you're a bit premature about RA-Aus getting involved in this. But certainly, whatever his license, I'd like to find out that CASA had a quiet word in his shell-like.

 

 

[DWF]

This is not a new way to kill yourself.

 

People have been using this method quite effectively since the very early days of powered flight.

 

Unfortunately there is also often considerable collateral damage.

 

Its a bit like unprotected sex - it can be fun but it can also have unexpected and undesired consequences.

 

 

 

WARNING - don't try this at home (or anywhere else).

 

 

[facthunter]

A go round wouldn't involve flying at a constant low height at higher than climb speed. Normal circuit procedures are predicated on people being where you would normally expect them to be. Sounds boring but that is the way it is. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

BTW admin, no one has as yet identified whether this guy was a Rec pilot or VH reg so I think you're a bit premature about RA-Aus getting involved in this. But certainly, whatever his license, I'd like to find out that CASA had a quiet word in his shell-like.

A harmin rocket is a special based off an RV4, that can't be too hard to find.

 

 

[rocket1172]

Teck, I guess you havn't been trained lucky yet by that statement. Like it or not there is a professional way to manage low level flying and thats why we get trained in risk management and hazard identification. And if it was never allowed then CASA would not have made rules to that effect with endorsements etc. The difference with wanna be's and professionals is the training. There are definitely areas not to fly low level at any stage without a proper plan. Just because you dont like the taste of vegemite, dont tell me I cant have it, coz I grew up on it. Probability is what will kill you, unless you are trained to reduce that probability which is very much achievable, and this has been endorsed by the very regulators that control us. No one is going to let me do brain surgery without the proper education and training, nor would I even try and do the training required. Its not for me, nor is it for many many people. Low ops are the same. Keep an open mind about low flying and dont ridicule those that do it professionally!

 

Enjoy your lunch? Thank an Ag Pilot!

 

Wear cotton? Thank an Ag Pilot!

 

 

[turboplanner]

beat up? or Go-Around?

Nobody, absolutely nobody, is ever fooled by that sort of comment, which from time to time is included on fatal accident reports.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Teck, I guess you havn't been trained lucky yet by that statement. Like it or not there is a professional way to manage low level flying and thats why we get trained in risk management and hazard identification. And if it was never allowed then CASA would not have made rules to that effect with endorsements etc. The difference with wanna be's and professionals is the training. There are definitely areas not to fly low level at any stage without a proper plan. Just because you dont like the taste of vegemite, dont tell me I cant have it, coz I grew up on it. Probability is what will kill you, unless you are trained to reduce that probability which is very much achievable, and this has been endorsed by the very regulators that control us. No one is going to let me do brain surgery without the proper education and training, nor would I even try and do the training required. Its not for me, nor is it for many many people. Low ops are the same. Keep an open mind about low flying and dont ridicule those that do it professionally!Enjoy your lunch? Thank an Ag Pilot!

Wear cotton? Thank an Ag Pilot!

Good comments to defend ag pilots, but this was a circuit beat up against circuit direction, and most of the bravado here is coming from people whose skill isn't up to an ag pilot's a******e.

 

 

[rocket1172]

Yeah ya right Turbo....thats the only thing I see that was wrong with it. The reversal. Just defending professionals there....And to reiterate, I am not advocating anything illegal here. For those out there thinking of doing it, dont until you get trained.

 

 

[Teckair]

Teck, I guess you havn't been trained lucky yet by that statement. Like it or not there is a professional way to manage low level flying and thats why we get trained in risk management and hazard identification. And if it was never allowed then CASA would not have made rules to that effect with endorsements etc. The difference with wanna be's and professionals is the training. There are definitely areas not to fly low level at any stage without a proper plan. Just because you dont like the taste of vegemite, dont tell me I cant have it, coz I grew up on it. Probability is what will kill you, unless you are trained to reduce that probability which is very much achievable, and this has been endorsed by the very regulators that control us. No one is going to let me do brain surgery without the proper education and training, nor would I even try and do the training required. Its not for me, nor is it for many many people. Low ops are the same. Keep an open mind about low flying and dont ridicule those that do it professionally!Enjoy your lunch? Thank an Ag Pilot!

Wear cotton? Thank an Ag Pilot!

OK Rocket I am not an AG pilot most pilots are not, and I have not been talking about Ag Pilot operations and neither have you that I have noticed until now. I have an understanding of what AG Pilots do each day and that is one gutsy job in my view, I have nothing against AG Pilots and in fact like watching them do their work. My understanding has been this thread is about ordinary pilots doing beat-ups and not about Ag Pilot operations. Apart from you there are some others who seem to think beat ups are a great idea, I am guessing these are not Ag Pilots or low level trained. I think you would have to know this and it is irresponsible to promote low level flying without any mention of AG operations, as there has not been until this post. Do you really think people will actually go out and get an AG Endorsement or low level training before doing a beat-up? If you do then you are wrong because there are a whole lot of deaths as a result of beat-ups.

 

 

[503]

Was it not just a down wind touch and go with out the skill required to actually touch

 

 

[ahlocks]

.... I don't get motivation of some of the posts.

Maybe, just maybe, people post some stuff just to wind up the cottonwool set .

( It's a bit of a sport really....)

 

 

[Teckair]

Maybe, just maybe, people post some stuff just to wind up the cottonwool set .( It's a bit of a sport really....)

OK enough said, you think don't take stuff said on this forum too seriously? I hope RAAus and CASSA see it that way.

 

 

[Teckair]

OK enough said, you think don't take stuff said on this forum too seriously? I hope RAAus and CASSA see it that way.

Probably not much point in posting on here in that case.

 

 

[ahlocks]

If RAA and CASA can't get collective heads around the reality that people make crap up and post it on internet forums they need to find a new line of work.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Probably not much point in posting on here in that case.

Why? Are you not able to work out who is actually out there flying and who is just writing about it on the interweb?

 

 

[poteroo]

DJ, wouldn't this come under Low Flying/Aerobatic endorsement to be able to fly low along the strip?

Ian, a low flight along the strip, on the right hand side, into wind, below Vfe, is perfectly legal as it is for the purposes of determining whether the strip is adequate and safe to land on. But, the smart-alecs in our midst believe that blasting down the strip, with IAS into the yellow arc, constitutes a 'strip inspection'. Pull the other leg on that! It is what it is - illegal low flying and you will be busted for it if someone in authority happens to be present. (see CAR 157). You can easily pick the 'untrained' executing these activities, because they simply can't hold a constant height above the earths surface.

 

happy days,

 

 

[flyerme]

Just curious ,How many peeps have trained for there Low-Level endo? Yes I have. did a 5hr coarse. Firstly you wont be granted the endo (even if paid and done the coarse)Unless you have an actual legit reason for it . ie= own large property or multiple properties and require the endo to check fence lines, water troughs,mustering etc... The first things drummed into my head was NEVER fly low unless it is truely necessary, never fly low over terrain you have not inspected from the ground first, and MOST IMPORTANTLY NEVER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE HUGE PRIVILEGE and RESPOSIBILLITY you trained for.. Theres a great book called "Flight at lower levels" A must read for any pilots and makes wire spotting from a couple thousand feet a lot easier..... I can understand go arounds,missed touch and goes etc but taken from this thread seems a dangerous maneuver may have been had? Not to bright and definately says to me the pilot has NOT undergone the training which really opens your eyes to the very real dangers or this would not have happened...

 

Don't ruin it for the rest of it please..fly smart and fly safe

 

P.S NOT having a go at the actual pilot referred to in this thread as I was not there and don,t know the actual details.comments made in regaurd sto this thread and it posts.......

 

stay safe peeps ,see you up there (WAY UP THERE LOL)

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

Just curious ,How many peeps have trained for there Low-Level endo?

I have the LL endorse in helicopters, GA planes and RA planes and I can't possibly see why anyone would suggest you can't have it unless/until you have need of it, though I have heard nonsense like that from CAA/CASA and AUF some while ago. That's like saying you can't have an instrument or multi-engine rating until you plan to fly a twin in IFR. Who said you won't be granted it? As far as I'm concerned any precision training is good training and LL doesn't necessarily have anything to do with rural properties or primary production, however it can have a hell of a lot to do with surviving (or not) an inadvertent incursion into marginal conditions.

 

On the subject of the OP - I really think this has blown out of all proportion when castigation of general low level hooning around the countryside has become intertwined with the discussion about a fly-by at a fly-in at an airstrip. Surely we all know that hooning is stupid and dangerous and some folks are always going to be dumb some of the time. But as for a fast fly-by at a fly-in, at an airstrip, what's the concensus? Should never be done? Should only be done as part of a programmed routine (making it a display rather than a fly-by)? Should only be done by people holding an LL endorse? Are fly-bys at landing speed OK without an LL endorse, just not fast fly-bys? What about cruise speed fly-bys on the dead side to waggle the wings in farewell after a fly-in? Too dangerous?

 

BTW - I guess some folks don't know why the showy folks like to do their fast fly-by contrary to the circuit direction? They're usually arranged that way at airshows too, and it's because it looks faster since it's downwind so the ground speed/speed past the spectator is considerably higher. AND - it's much safer, believe it or not, because you benefit from any effects of wind gradient rather than being disadvantaged by it. An engine failure is also less hazardous because at high speed you have plenty of envelope for a turn-back to land into wind - no, I'm not firing up the turn-back debate again because there's a big difference between a turn-back from EFATO and a turn-back from 150-200kts.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Maybe, just maybe, people post some stuff just to wind up the cottonwool set .( It's a bit of a sport really....)

Yeah it's a great topic for a windup.

Which of the photos I posted a couple of pages back was the funniest, do you think?

 

There are some very good, competent, and responsible people in RAA trying to ensure that rec & sport pilots get taken seriously in the aviation community and get treated fairly by the regulator. And there are some others who are doing their level best to unravel those efforts.

 

 

[Teckair]

If RAA and CASA can't get collective heads around the reality that people make crap up and post it on internet forums they need to find a new line of work.

And you think you are in a position to make that determination?

 

 

[Teckair]

Why? Are you not able to work out who is actually out there flying and who is just writing about it on the interweb?

Yeah well I did wonder about a AG Pilot who chooses to fly a Savannah but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

[flyerme]

I have the LL endorse in helicopters, GA planes and RA planes and I can't possibly see why anyone would suggest you can't have it unless/until you have need of it, though I have heard nonsense like that from CAA/CASA and AUF some while ago. That's like saying you can't have an instrument or multi-engine rating until you plan to fly a twin in IFR. Who said you won't be granted it? As far as I'm concerned any precision training is good training and LL doesn't necessarily have anything to do with rural properties or primary production, however it can have a hell of a lot to do with surviving (or not) an inadvertent incursion into marginal conditions.On the subject of the OP - I really think this has blown out of all proportion when castigation of general low level hooning around the countryside has become intertwined with the discussion about a fly-by at a fly-in at an airstrip. Surely we all know that hooning is stupid and dangerous and some folks are always going to be dumb some of the time. But as for a fast fly-by at a fly-in, at an airstrip, what's the concensus? Should never be done? Should only be done as part of a programmed routine (making it a display rather than a fly-by)? Should only be done by people holding an LL endorse? Are fly-bys at landing speed OK without an LL endorse, just not fast fly-bys? What about cruise speed fly-bys on the dead side to waggle the wings in farewell after a fly-in? Too dangerous?

 

BTW - I guess some folks don't know why the showy folks like to do their fast fly-by contrary to the circuit direction? They're usually arranged that way at airshows too, and it's because it looks faster since it's downwind so the ground speed/speed past the spectator is considerably higher. AND - it's much safer, believe it or not, because you benefit from any effects of wind gradient rather than being disadvantaged by it. An engine failure is also less hazardous because at high speed you have plenty of envelope for a turn-back to land into wind - no, I'm not firing up the turn-back debate again because there's a big difference between a turn-back from EFATO and a turn-back from 150-200kts.

Zane Tully....Paid and trained for my low level endo only to recieve a letter from one "Zane TullY" informing their was insuficiant warrent for the endo there fore they would not grant my LL endo!!!!!!!!!!!!.. My CFI sent and made a number of phone calls but 2 years on still yet to have the LL inked on my certificate... ( THAT I TRAINED AND PAID FOR) all LOGGED IN MY PILOT LOG BOOK AND SIGNED OFF.....................My old CFI strongly Believes every pilot should have this endo and it should be part of the syllibis.To open our eyes to the dangers of low and slow.

OK so I spent money on a endo I never revieved but the good thing was the lessons I learnt.. makes me a lil safer I believe... money well spent