NQ election ballot form stuff up....update. Tuesday 17 Sept 2013

[Guest Maj Millard]

It appears that around. 40-50% of the NQ members did not receive their ballot voting form or prepaid envelope with the September magazine.

 

After being informed of this by around 10 members, I contacted the RAAus office last Friday, however most were understandably at Narromine. I was informed by the friendly and courteuos office staff most would be back in the office today,Tuesday.

 

On Sunday I sent an Email to the GM outlining the problem, and CCed it to several executive and board members. This morning I received a phone call from Maxine Picker, asking me if I would mind receiving a phone call From the magazine editor. I stated I would welcome a phone call. Not long after I received a call from Brian Bigg. He enquiried as to how many members did I think did not receive their ballots. I replied it looked like around 40-50 % from the contacts I have had.

 

He then suggested that it looked like a stuff up by the people they contacted to, to conduct the mailing, but indicated it was probably computer generated, and it appears thats where the problem may have originated.

 

He suggested if the GM approves, there will be an emergency mail out in the next couple of days, to all NQ members, of additional ballot forms.

 

I have not at this time received any return Email from the GM.

 

My thanks to Maxine Picker and Brian Biggs for your personal calls...................Maj...Ross Millard

 

 

[fly_tornado]

nothing runs smoothly in the RAA. you should look into that Ross or people will think that it was a conspiracy!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

nothing runs smoothly in the RAA. you should look into that Ross or people will think that it was a conspiracy!

Well believe me I am doing my best to highlight the problem. You would think at this stage of proceedings that they would have the ballot form thing pretty much sorted, it's not the first election they have conducted. I've got members up here who are pissed off, and want the NQ election post-phoned to a later date. We'll see what transpires.............Maj...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

maybe this is just the first time someone noticed? could explain the low turnout for votes...

 

 

[sain]

speaking of conspiracy theories:

 

I don't suppose there were any correlating factors for the people you'd been in touch with Maj? Common people they had voted for (or not voted for) in past ballots?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

speaking of conspiracy theories:I don't suppose there were any correlating factors for the people you'd been in touch with Maj? Common people they had voted for (or not voted for) in past ballots?

I would imagine they would be the same people, there are on so many people up her after all.................Maj...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Today's update : ......Wed 18th Sept......Recieved a call today from the GM Mark Clayton, very friendly and we discussed the problem at length...seems the NQ election may be put back a month (subject to some approvals) and next months magazine will have another round of amended ballot forms in it.

 

Mark said many of the vote envelopes already Recieved at the office have no Member number on the envelope , so therefore they are invalid votes.

 

I assume the new envelopes will have the usual member number box on the rear of the envelope. So to those who have already voted..THANK YOU ...but you may have another chance yet !..............from bad sometimes comes good, and we may actually have a record voter count the way things are going.....Cheers, Ross Millard

 

 

[Blueadventures]

Today's update : ......Wed 18th Sept......Recieved a call today from the GM Mark Clayton, very friendly and we discussed the problem at length...seems the NQ election may be put back a month (subject to some approvals) and next months magazine will have another round of amended ballot forms in it.Mark said many of the vote envelopes already Recieved at the office have no Member number on the envelope , so therefore they are invalid votes.

I assume the new envelopes will have the usual member number box on the rear of the envelope. So to those who have already voted..THANK YOU ...but you may have another chance yet !..............from bad sometimes comes good, and we may actually have a record voter count the way things are going.....Cheers, Ross Millard

Hi Ross

 

I have sent in a ballot form with my vote. The envolope back was marked with my member number and that its for the NQ ballot. I'm away from Friday for 6 1/2 weeks so will not be getting the next magazine before early November. I expect my vote sent will be considered. Cheers Mike

 

 

[turboplanner]

Today's update : ......Wed 18th Sept......Recieved a call today from the GM Mark Clayton, very friendly and we discussed the problem at length...seems the NQ election may be put back a month (subject to some approvals) and next months magazine will have another round of amended ballot forms in it.Mark said many of the vote envelopes already Recieved at the office have no Member number on the envelope , so therefore they are invalid votes.

I assume the new envelopes will have the usual member number box on the rear of the envelope. So to those who have already voted..THANK YOU ...but you may have another chance yet !..............from bad sometimes comes good, and we may actually have a record voter count the way things are going.....Cheers, Ross Millard

Are you saying that people are going to get the opportunity to vote twice? If so the election could be invalid with further problems.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Hi RossI have sent in a ballot form with my vote. The envolope back was marked with my member number and that its for the NQ ballot. I'm away from Friday for 6 1/2 weeks so will not be getting the next magazine before early November. I expect my vote sent will be considered. Cheers Mike

Thanks Mike, I will look into that for you OK........Cheers and good luck with the course.....Ross

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Are you saying that people are going to get the opportunity to vote twice? If so the election could be invalid with further problems.

Turbo, I don't expect that to be the case, I would imagine they will have a check off list, and once a member is checked off, that's it. Thats the way I would do it anyway....

 

I will send off an Email to thenGM, and try to get things explained a little better ok............Cheers Maj...

 

 

[Powerin]

Mark said many of the vote envelopes already received at the office have no Member number on the envelope , so therefore they are invalid votes.

I could make a joke about Northern Qlders here...but I dare not. And one would hope (expect?) that pilots might be more adept at reading instructions than the average Joe. But even so, perhaps it might be time to rethink the method by which RAAus validates its votes given the high number of informal votes caused by forgetting to write the number on the back.

It's a simple thing to write the number on the back of the envelope, but also apparently an easy thing to forget. So they need to recognise there are Human Factors at play and change the system.

 

I've thought the same thing about the Pilot Certificate renewals. When I first got one of those there is one form that tells you how to pay and also how to do it online if preferred. Then there is this other form for the medical declaration. There is nothing on either form that says you need to send in both...or what to do with the medical form if you pay electronically. It's always dangerous to assume that things are obvious and people will know what to do. Human Factors.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I must admit to complete ?????? as to why we have to put our membership numbers on the envelope. I mean WTF does that do??? does it somehow mean that the envelope can now be opened to see what the member (including number) has actually voted for....

 

It seems a stupid rule to me, I don't understand why we have to do it.

 

Can anyone else shed some light on why this is needed?

 

Perhaps, I feel another Special Resolution coming on for the next GM / AGM, unless its a requirement of the model rules... in which case we may well have to comply

 

Andy

 

 

[David Isaac]

Andy,

 

the number is used to check off the member on the list of financial members to validate the vote and to ensure there are no multiple votes. The envelope is then kept secure and unopened until poll close and vote count. The opening and counting is scrutinised by independent persons nominated by the office. Additional scrutineers can also be nominated by individual persons standing for the positions.

 

Once the envelope is opened there is no connection between the number and the actual vote at the time of counting.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

Last time I voted, I remembered an envelope within an envelope. That way, if it is accidentally opened before close of voting, the inner envelope remains sealed and unidentifiable. Checking the membership number against the current address ensures the votes go into the correct ballot box. For fear that people south of 22 degrees might stack the result . Seriously, there is some confusion about who is actually in NQ and I've had people way south of that line telling me they haven't got their NQ voting paper . I am pretty certain the envelopes don't get opened until close of voting - in the presence of scrutineers.

 

Sue

 

 

[fly_tornado]

[Guest Maj Millard]

I could make a joke about Northern Qlders here...but I dare not. And one would hope (expect?) that pilots might be more adept at reading instructions than the average Joe. But even so, perhaps it might be time to rethink the method by which RAAus validates its votes given the high number of informal votes caused by forgetting to write the number on the back.It's a simple thing to write the number on the back of the envelope, but also apparently an easy thing to forget. So they need to recognise there are Human Factors at play and change the system.

 

I've thought the same thing about the Pilot Certificate renewals. When I first got one of those there is one form that tells you how to pay and also how to do it online if preferred. Then there is this other form for the medical declaration. There is nothing on either form that says you need to send in both...or what to do with the medical form if you pay electronically. It's always dangerous to assume that things are obvious and people will know what to do. Human Factors.

POWER..............It actually took a couple of sharp-eyed northern pilots to track this down after all you blind Southerners have been missing it for years !!!!.....that's why we are better pilots also by the way !!....................

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I must admit to complete ?????? as to why we have to put our membership numbers on the envelope. I mean WTF does that do??? does it somehow mean that the envelope can now be opened to see what the member (including number) has actually voted for....It seems a stupid rule to me, I don't understand why we have to do it.

 

Can anyone else shed some light on why this is needed?

 

Perhaps, I feel another Special Resolution coming on for the next GM / AGM, unless its a requirement of the model rules... in which case we may well have to comply

 

Andy

Andy, I had assumed that you were a bit smarter than than, sounds like you need to make plans for moving north of the border, but you only qualify for residence in the SE corner at this time.......................

 

 

[turboplanner]

Which border, NQ or SQ or PNG?

 

 

[Hongie]

I recieved my Magazine yesterday sans voting forms. So, I sincerely hope that they do indeed put it off a month, so that i have a chance to vote.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Simple guy I am....

 

As voting envelopes come into the office throw them into the basket that collects them unopened until time has expired. The envelopes have an address that includes details to make it clear its a vote....something like "returning officer ...or thereabouts" as the first line of the address.

 

Do nothing until the time has expired.

 

Open them up and low and behold there is a membership number....do with it what you will to ensure that Ross cant sneakily vote 400 times for the opposition.....

 

count them......

 

So what am I missing?

 

How is the vote more or less "fair dinkum" as a result of the number on the outside of the envelope?

 

If we ever had a large percentage of members voting I guess the number on the outside means the checking can be done as the returns come in....but realistically when the vast majority of board positions are appointed without a vote being needed then to me catering for a close to 100% return is as likely as winning Lotto and I don't play!

 

Today where we are lucky if we can get 5% of the membership to vote it just seesm wrong to toss out a chunk of these because of something that IMHO matters not!

 

Andy

 

P.S I'm assuming that your membership number is on the vote form....I cant be 100% sure it is because its been at least a month since my last vote, but Id almost bet Ross's lefty on it...

 

 

[David Isaac]

The problem with your suggestion is in the words that your 'membership number is on the voting form' and that is illegal. A voting form cannot legally be used in any way to identify the voting party. Cast your mind back to the recent Federal election ... There is no identifier on your ballot forms for legal reasons.

 

So that is why the membership number is on the envelope and is removed and destroyed after the vote is legitimised.

 

 

[Chird65]

Simple guy I am....Andy

 

P.S I'm assuming that your membership number is on the vote form......but Id almost bet Ross's lefty on it...

Poor Ross, he will be now known as his Chinese name WunHungLow

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well Andy, you're the glass half full guy.

 

Now, I'm not for a minute suggesting the following is or has occurred, but imagine I'm and official sitting in the office, eyeing off that basket.

 

What you are missing is that by having a membership number on the outside of the envelope, I can find out who the voter is.

 

When I see it is Handy Andy, I know him, and I know who he'll by voting for, so I know I have to rustle up another vote to beat that one.

 

If the potential is there for a problem, best it's eliminated.

 

If people were told to make sure they put their numbers on an envelope sealed for anonymity and they didn't, that's another reason

 

Glass Full

 

 

[David Isaac]

That's why ballot forms should in an ideal world be mailed to a separate address of an independent organisation or the RA Aus law firm as an example and only delivered to the RA Aus office at close of the poll just before the count.