Tail drager or tricycle ?

[MarcK]

Hello all

 

I am gong to attempt to start my training again after being constantly stoped by weather and work last year I decided to pull the pin until i thought I would have the time to commit. I am not sure it will work out this time either heading into spring / summer but I got the itch again.

 

I have a choice of training in a tail drager or a tricycle aircraft. Now personally I love the dragers but there is something in me telling me I need to learn them both. So the question is do you think it would be easier to convert from a drager to a tricycle or the other way around. It will be a Light Wing in both cases.

 

Thanks

 

Marc

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Learn the tail dragger first for sure...the ticycle is easy as...remember the only real difference is in takeoff and landing not the actual flying

 

 

[Keenaviator]

They all bite if you try hard enough. That said, if you learn to 3 point land a tail dragger properly, you will land a tricycle beautifully using the same technique.

 

 

[metalman]

You will NEVER regret learning to fly a taildragger,

 

Matty

 

 

[SDQDI]

Definately go with the tail dragger first. When I learnt I was given that same advice (instructor owned the tail dragger and I was sceptical) and I could soon see the wisdom of it, you learn to use your rudder from day one. After getting my certificate I did my cross country in the nose wheel and was surprised at how quickly I became "rudder lazy".

 

 

[MarcK]

What are the main real world benefits of a tail dragger do you think? Apart from style and class!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

What are the main real world benefits of a tail dragger do you think? Apart from style and class!

Aren't "style and class" enough?

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Enough said, I agree with everyone above, go the drag Queen first and the rest will follow without much trouble. Good luck, once you get the certificate all the time and expense will be well worth it.

 

 

[facthunter]

Going from a tailwheel to a tricycle is easy. The other way around , Who knows? It varies. The tailwheel will instill more awareness of the value of the rudder. A tailwheel is more versatile and can handle rough strips and gusty wind conditions better. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Enough said, I agree with everyone above, go the drag Queen first......

OK ... I confess I love drag Queens ... LOL

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I'm not disagreeing with all the tail wheel fans but the combined hours needed to learn to fly on one type and then convert to the other probably wouldn't be much different.

 

But you would get your pilot certificate sooner and with less frustration by starting on the tricycle

 

If you were advising a family member on learning to drive which would you recommend - a small saloon or a Morgan 3-wheeler (not a particular accurate analogy - tailwheel aircraft are far more numerous than Malverns finest)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[turboplanner]

That's right John, plenty of people here keen to spend students money. We lose more pilots per year due to accumulated cost than any other reason.

 

Training cost sounds manageable at the beginning, but multiple instructors, different aircraft, and feeling obliged to train on days when you and the instructor both know it will not be productive, can break the budget.

 

What the taildragger brigade are saying, and I notice it's the same few, will certainly broaden your skills base, but in most cases for what? The world's aircraft manufactures went for tricycle undercarriages for the better directional stability on the ground, particularly on windy days, with consequent lower repair costs.

 

 

[facthunter]

The question was put. Do which one first? If you aren't proposing to go taildragger then you won't do it anytime. Most schools don't have one anyhow. Most pilots these days will never fly one. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The question was put. Do which one first? If you aren't proposing to go taildragger then you won't do it anytime. Most schools don't have one anyhow. Most pilots these days will never fly one. Nev

True, it may be easier to start on a tricycle, but we benefit from broadening our skill base. Turbs has a point also. I had to travel interstate to find my tailwheel instructor, and he would put the Thruster back in the hanger after a couple of circuits when the wind built up. I spent a lot of time and money over a couple of years trying to tame the damn thing. I can understand why some students would have given up. Finally, in frustration I got my ticket in a Jab. Much, much easier, then converted to tailwheel when I got the Jodel.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Well of course Marc did say he was starting in a Lightwing and I believe they are one of the most docile of all, so maybe a Lightwing would be a good starting call.

 

 

[MarcK]

The school has both last time I checked and as mentioned I have the choice of learning in either. From the points listed above I think I might start in the nose wheal for the certificate. Just to get it done, once I have that I will see what to play with next. As with most of us stuck on the ground it's a time /weather/ money Swiss Cheese equation ( Trying to get all the holes lined up) I have the permission of the trouble and strife to spend the money. I have time currently working FIFO and I might even take up prayer to try work on the weather when I am home. But any of these 3 can disappear at any time so I think it's in my best interest to get my certificate done ASAP. I do love the idea of the dragger and I really am struggling with the choice but I think if I want to fly I have to let the idea go for the time being. The school only has the one dragger and if I or anyone else breaks it it will put a massive hole in my training.

 

If my lovely wife ever gets to the point of insanity of letting be buy an aircraft it would probably be a tail dragger but for now I will stick with what makes the most sense.

 

Thanks all for the posts

 

Marc

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Go for it Marc, and do your best to keep that great assett- your supportive wife.

 

 

[crashley]

one day everyone will wise up and realise that tail draggers are like hand start engines and navigating without gps etc old fashioned and difficult and more risk of damage for no reason also check the insurance rate for a tail wheel version compared with a nose wheel version the tail wheel is a lot dearer for a reason

 

 

[facthunter]

The way you have painted it is not correct crashley. For an owner, who has to use rough strips or flys in windy conditions often they are the only plane. There are a couple of strong tri gear U/C's But most won't cope with rough treatment. If I was running a flying school, a tailwheel would be about the third plane I would put on line. In a training environment the tailwheel would be more risk, and have less demand for it. It's not a matter of it being old fashioned at all. It's a question of horses for courses. Nev

 

 

[MarcK]

I have always bee more interested in sleek looking low wing aircraft. I am male and so I do love the sexy things in life but what turned me towards the draggers is the videos of the carbon cub. What they do in that thing is amazing. It looks like you could step out of the thing 3 feet of the ground before it hit the ground if the worst happens.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I have always bee more interested in sleek looking low wing aircraft. I am male and so I do love the sexy things in life but what turned me towards the draggers is the videos of the carbon cub. What they do in that thing is amazing. It looks like you could step out of the thing 3 feet of the ground before it hit the ground if the worst happens.

Do a few thousand hours before attempting things like that...

 

 

[MarcK]

Roger on that one I hope to get a couple more hours towards that number by the end of the month lets all keep our fingers crossed for good weather on the 19th thats the day I have booked to get back in the air got a couple of hours.

 

 

[crashley]

I think I may be missing something is a tail wheel easier or harder to handle in a gusty wind than a nose wheel

 

and yes I believe on very rough airstrips a tail dragger is the go but how many people use rough airstrips

 

 

[SDQDI]

Those of us that don't have smooth strips use rough strips. I think maybe the analogy you used crashley was a bit harsh I prefer likening them to maybe commodores and land cruisers they are just built for different uses doesn't mean one is worse than the other it just depends what you need them for.

 

 

[metalman]

I fly out of Coldstream airport, it's a gravel strip and no matter how careful you are that initial power when taxiing or taking off can suck stones up into the prop,,,,the taildraggers don't have the problem like the nose wheelers,although I'm still very aware of it and do all I can to be kind to my prop. Another point in favour of the taildragger ,on a recent trip some of the crosswinds were well above anything I'd flown in 25knots and more, at a couple of the places we dropped into I had to touch down on one corner of the runway splay area run up over the runway on an angle and off the other side ,in a taildragger it wasn't an issue ,I don't know to many ultralight tricycles that I'd be comfy doing that with.

 

I started off in tricycle gear stuff like most of us but always like the taildraggers( I've never seen an aircraft that looked ugly with a tailwheel) after a while I did the training and started to look for time in anything going, it's not easy to do nowadays but I managed to get some C185 and RV6 time, then we moved south and I got some Eurofox hours ( a really sweet plane) and spent a few hours in a super decathalon and recently was able to get checked out in a DH82a , the thing is ,for some reason ,the most interesting planes have tail wheels and the ability to handle one finds you in a position to get left seat in some pretty cool aircraft.

 

Someone mentioned insurance? I have my Skywolf ( a Skyfox based experimental) insured for flight risk, and my RV6 kit for ground risk ,hull value about $38000 each for a premium of $2200 a year, not sure how that compares with others, also heard that the RV taildraggers are less risk than the nose wheelers.

 

My point in if you have the choice to train in a taildragger I'd go for it , if it added maybe 3-5 hours to the total ( which is about the minimum for an endorsement) it would be worth it ,you'd come out the other end a much more aware and competent pilot, and in a position to get time in some of the more interesting aircraft around,

 

Matty