How well can "the big guys" see us

[ben87r]

Good way to make regionals look out around small airfields is to make plenty of calls. Anything id with "Jabiru, skyfox, Sportstar, Glider " etc at the start makes them pucker. When requested tell them you dont have a transponder and they will get very concerned even holding for long periods whilst you land. BUT this is ones who are on the right freq.d

That is exactly what NOT to do... Make only required calls ie base. When they make their inbound calls respond appropriately and give what information is required to separate yourselves... As for en route, don't forget that these guys are IFR and will when available get information on you so don't think that because you were not aware of them that they are not of you but most of all DON'T do what is listed above. Apart from sounding like a wanker everyone will probably ignore all of your call instead....

 

 

[facthunter]

Brief, Clear and speak slower . If someone asks your position be able to tell them where you are. Don't go quiet and add to the confusion or give wrong position. Radio used properly is one of your best aids in separating aircraft.. Have your brain in gear before your mouth starts to move. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I was taught to fly in California, (both UL and GA) where I swear there are more bloody aeroplanes than birds on any given day !..........An air traffic controller told me once that they separate you from wanker to experienced in the first two transmissions...they have no idea of your flying experience, even if they cared !.... However even as a student, if you make clear confident, calls with all the info they need, they will treat and handle you accordingly.

 

I was taught to run the transmission over in your mind before pressing the PTT.....and then tell them ;.... who you are, where you are, what height, and what do you want ?.....or intentions.........now we'll get all the usual wankers digging out ERSA and going into required phraseology etc etc........but the above is basically it in a nutshell without the BS, and it works every time...Maj.....

 

 

[facthunter]

I think the standard has dropped a bit and it was never sky high. People can tell who the dopes are by the way they talk.. Being a bit self conscious is natural but speeding up is not the answer. Perhaps a bit of practice with a recorder would be in order occasionally. . Hearing your own voice is a bit of a shock to some. Apparently I have a strong accent that people can pick everywhere. Dunno where I got that from. Nev

 

 

[ben87r]

I think the standard has dropped a bit and it was never sky high

Maybe it's something that we (or people much more qualified then me) should try to do something about on here, because, on weekends sometimes its nothing more then annoying hearing calls that, aren't just a little sub standard but are long winded and unnecessary.

 

Now, I'm not having a go here at the majority but think that the minority should have been shown better in training and have slipped through.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I think the standard has dropped a bit and it was never sky high. People can tell who the dopes are by the way they talk.. Being a bit self conscious is natural but speeding up is not the answer. Perhaps a bit of practice with a recorder would be in order occasionally. . Hearing your own voice is a bit of a shock to some. Apparently I have a strong accent that people can pick everywhere. Dunno where I got that from. Nev

Good point, Nev. I have seen trainee auctioneers practising: hilarious!

 

Every smart-phone has a built- in recorder. Might go somewhere private...

 

 

[rankamateur]

Bit of a worry, all this talk about wankers and now you are looking for somewhere private.

 

 

[M61A1]

Sorry, but exchange of info relating to collision avoidance, actual position, height, and intention, is stuff you need and should be shared as required, not only if there is a 'potential conflict'. It may well be too late by then. I make VFR position calls as I feel they are warranted for safety, and will continue to do so. In no way does it come under the heading of 'clogging the airways'...and often after making one, other aircraft will respond (both civil and military) which often are aircraft you weren't aware were there at all, or they of your presence. That is simply increasing safety and awareness for all users.....................Maj....

I think I've poorly worded what I was trying to say, or you've misunderstood. If it improves safety, then it's a call you should make, But for example, why would a military aircraft at 200' bother when someone has announced they are at 5000'? Maybe the military guys where I fly are just procedurally better than the ones where you fly, but since most of them learned here and are bound by the same exceptionally tight law, I doubt it.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Maybe our bitching does make a difference !!....noticed on the current Townsville notams........

 

Acrft Opr D764 class C airspace must mnt freq 126.8 and when transmitting between Class C and class G airspace should also mntr freq 126.7 to ensure appropriate situational awareness is mntn with respect to ops in class G airspace wi the confines of the danger area.......end

 

126.8 is Townsville Class C approach

 

D764 is the Townsville training area

 

It is comforting that they are now required to monitor 126.7 when in the class G with the rest of us around the Townsville class C........................Maj.....

 

 

[frank marriott]

Ross

 

"Should" not required. Full SAR maintained in training area with approach. So unless the training aircraft have 2 radios the don't expect to hear them on 126.7.

 

All aircraft operating within 30 nm YBTL " should" monitor 126.8 also. (Very few do)

 

It is good practise to monitor two frequencies when operating on any freq. boundary e.g. Area freq. and CTAF (again most don't and quite often in small aircraft it is not an option.)

 

If you monitor 126.8 you will hear approach notifying training aircraft of transitting 1200 traffic. Also if monitoring 126.8 they will call you (unidentified 1200 traffic at XXXXX) and advise of known traffic likely to conflict with you.

 

So in short, nothing new at all, just a reminder to aircraft operating in the training area on full SAR on 126.8 that other OCTA traffic may be around not listening to 126.8 due to increased activity at Bluewater Park.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Ross"Should" not required. Full SAR maintained in training area with approach. So unless the training aircraft have 2 radios the don't expect to hear them on 126.7.

All aircraft operating within 30 nm YBTL " should" monitor 126.8 also. (Very few do)

 

It is good practise to monitor two frequencies when operating on any freq. boundary e.g. Area freq. and CTAF (again most don't and quite often in small aircraft it is not an option.)

 

If you monitor 126.8 you will hear approach notifying training aircraft of transitting 1200 traffic. Also if monitoring 126.8 they will call you (unidentified 1200 traffic at XXXXX) and advise of known traffic likely to conflict with you.

 

So in short, nothing new at all, just a reminder to aircraft operating in the training area on full SAR on 126.8 that other OCTA traffic may be around not listening to 126.8 due to increased activity at Bluewater Park.

Frank, even with only one radio, and most military aircraft have at least two, there is still the capability to monitor or scan all required frequencies. Obviously if you are still using an ancient 'thumb wheel' job, or using the option of not being radio equipped ( except at CTAF ® airports ) you would not be so capable.

 

The problem is that military traffic were not necessarily monitoring 126.7 in Class G airspace as we are requested to, nor did they respond to calls on that frequency when called after a conflict, by other Class G traffic....IE ; US !....

 

The notam brings the defiency to their attention , and requests that they monitor the frequency for added safety for all, especially in a training area, where as you would know those involved are not always looking out the window as they should. Or in other words , and this is what they use after a collision " failed to maintain a see and avoid watch" as requiresd in ERSA section blah blah blah.

 

Personally if I am transiting the Bluewater training area (or any other for that matter) I' ll make a call to TWR or approach and ask if any 'known traffic'. Mostly they reply promptly.

 

Remember the approach controller only has to talk with non IFR class G traffic on a time available basis. Meaning if he's got four F 18s inbound, plus two 737s on the way, you probabily won't hear from him for a bit......the notam is a positive move for increased safety in my opinion.............Maj....

 

 

[frank marriott]

Too many wrongs in that statement, I'll explain why next time I run into you.

 

 

[facthunter]

Hopefully you won't RUN INTO him. Nev