CASA's hidden agenda ????........

[turboplanner]

Andy, what you think about the present structure and how it should be managed, is well worth some discussions in other threads away from this subject, but is completely irrelevant in terms of what the Association's structure IS, and how it should be operating NOW.

 

Of course you don't jump from one extreme to the other - I am "managing" in three Associations at the present time, and except for projects which require major input, am able to get the administration done with very little effort, due to travel required only once a year for the AGM, the rest all electronic, which RAA could also do.

 

What you are advocating is different to what others are advocating and different to what I would be advocating, but I repeat, has no relevance to complying with the present structure of Recreational Aviation Australia Inc. and getting on with the job.

 

"I mean we have a staff of employees that couldn't comply with CASA's requirements and they worked fulltime"

 

I think you'll find that started as a small, manageable problem that was not addressed, as the board of management could have addressed it, but delegated to a single employee, and then was allowed to continue until it spiralled into a major problem.

 

"A treasurer that wouldn't know P&L from balance sheet if he fell over it"

 

A board of management could have discussed the difficulty of bundling many different costs in one reporting line, and so not being able to show members where money was actually going. You don't need to be an accountant to be a treasurer of an Incorporated Association, you just need to ensure the office staff post each income item and each expense item to its correct position. For a start we are not a P&L organization.

 

"secretary that used the constitution when it was advantageous to him and tossed it out when not"

 

You call a general meeting in accordance with the constitution and fire him! You don't stand there with your finger in your mouth and do nothing.

 

"They generally shouldn't be doing work themselves"

 

The staff of around a dozen people are there to do the work; if the work isn't being done then maybe there are productivity issues within the staff that the office manager should be observing and reporting to the board of management, or the workloads are not allocated efficiently, or more employees are required, or any one of a dozen reasons, including a reliance on an outdated paper office culture. The fix for that starts with the board of management looking at existing job descriptions versus job requirements.

 

None of what you pointed out is beyond the capacity of elected officials, provided they themselves understand what their CASA and RAA job descriptions are.

 

Until the members get pi$$ed off enough to force the board members back to what the Association's rules require, this wasteful discussion, which has be flowing like a sewer for four years already, will continue with more and more red herrings about fantasies like secret agendas by CASA.

 

 

[Bandit12]

......the reality is that in RAAus we are knocking of a substantial amount of members every year and its at a level that its certainly noticeable.

The reality is that the RAAus fatality rate is twice that of comparable GA aircraft over the last decade, and that is ignoring any other high profile incident like the ferris wheel that caused additional scrutiny. I don't think there is a need for a hidden agenda, the publicly available figures make a convincing agenda by themselves.

 

 

[Methusala]

....and the new recreational licence is not a stalking horse for a take over of what will qualify for possible transfer to VH registration and if we continue to jump through hoops and if people who are frustrated with the plane in their shed being unusable and maybe get caught flying it illegally. Then CASA may have a dirty dossier to take to the minister's office, throw their hands up in the air and bleat, "Honestly minister, what can we do with these pests?".

 

Call me cynical or delusional, the proof will play out in its own time. Don

 

 

[turboplanner]

No, it's not a stalking horse. Take a careful look at what it gives you and what the medical includes, and you will see:

 

(a) It's a very poorly thought out, even a targeted option for GA pilots in poor health to drop back to one passenger, and lose some of their freedoms.

 

(b) It's an even less exciting prospect for RA pilots

 

© It's much easier for pilots to become active in cleaning up RAA, and continuing with better freedoms.

 

The fatality rate within RAA is WAY to high by community standards, but that is likely to be taken care of by lawsuits, and multimillion dollar payouts will ensure the last PL insurer bales out, and when he does, and RAA and any members who are sued are unable to pay the claims, then it will be all over, and you'll have to see what CASA offers.

 

So it's more productive to face and get under control, the real threat, which is well within the hands of members.

 

 

[turboplanner]

You're thinking of the CASA you knew Major; post-Pelair, Barry Hempel, the Senate Inquiry and a few others, there's a shift in critical mass beginning to take place.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Turbs, I'm starting to think that you are CASA !.........like I have said before on other posts, I first started dealing intimately with the fore runner to CASA, (CAA DCA ..DEPT of Name changes) back in 1968. I have for many years had to deal with them, and their ever-changing confused regulatory system, on a daily basis ...and still do in my profession. Shift in critical mass !!??.....if that suggestion wasn't so funny it would be tragic !!..the only critical mass they need to shift is themselves...In past years I have held multiple CASA Maintenance Authorities to allow me to deal with certain requirements within companies I work with.

 

Last year one company sent me back to school in Brisbane to re-do and upgrade my regulatory knowledge in respect to the new Part 66 licensing, and the new regulatory system generally. (AA Aviation Administration. 86% pass first try).

 

Additionally I also flew and worked under the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA )for twelve years in the States, as a pilot and engineer.

 

I still maintain currency with both my FAA PPL NVFR and my Airframe-Powerplant licenses, which always have been ICAO compliant, and recognised the world over (except Australia !) unlike the ever changing 'toy ' licenses and ratings we attempt to use here on a daily basis. My FAA ratings I gained in the 90s and renewed them recently in 2012. Cost of renewal for each by the way ?......US$4.00..........postage about $20. And having had the pleasure of operating under a system that works, (FAA), I certainly know a barsterdized one that doesn't when I see it (CASA), regardless of how many times they attempt to fix it.

 

The sooner the Government of this country realises the FAA system is so far superior to any botched up bastardised euro adaptation, and adopts it enmass, the far better off we will all be in this country.

 

My open and continuing criticism of the current CASA system is backed by past, and very recent first- hand experience, so don't even entertain the idea of suggesting I'm not up to date there !........and what about you Turbs?...what exactly do you base your knowledge and opinions on ?..............Maj....

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

There seems to be a move here in Australia to have company, and COUNTRY specific "certificates" for maintenance types. I regard this as an attempt to prevent our workers going overseas and getting extra experience or money. If ICAO compliance is an element of RAAus ops, I ask WHY? ICAO compliance means we will be followers rather than instigators/leaders. ICAO Stands for International CIVIL Aviation Organisation, primarily interested in standardisation . Why would ICAO be involved with our type of aviating as long as we keep away from their ops? And get away from EXEMPTIONS . Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

There seems to be a move here in Australia to have company, and COUNTRY specific "certificates" for maintenance types. I regard this as an attempt to prevent our workers going overseas and getting extra experience or money. If ICAO compliance is an element of RAAus ops, I ask WHY? ICAO compliance means we will be followers rather than instigators/leaders. ICAO Stands for International CIVIL Aviation Organisation, primarily interested in standardisation . Why would ICAO be involved with our type of aviating as long as we keep away from their ops? And get away from EXEMPTIONS . Nev

Facto, If that's their plan they are about 30 years too late !!..........you may remember in the 70s (or you may not)...the big plan of the day by governments was to send Aussies overseas to gain experience and knowledge that couldn't be gained in this country, to increase our country's abilities in many areas that were lacking. I and thousands of others fell for it all, went to foreign countres and gained foreign experience, ratings, qualifications and knowledge. When we returned those qualifications (especially overseas aviation ratings) simply weren't recognised, and were useless.

 

No the reason for all the sudden ICAOcompliance noise, is because they can't get away without having it anymore. They have held out for years not recognising it, or only recognising it when it suited them. And all this time we have supposably been an ICAO signatory and ment to be in compliance. It will not make us a 'follower' as you suggest , but rather a team-player like we should have been all along....brings it on !!!!..................Maj....

 

 

[facthunter]

Follower Maj, is in the area of innovation in design and building/flying U/L's. I am not talking about any other aspect of aviation. If you comply, in the ICAO sense, you don't innovate. You have to have room to move.

 

Plenty of overseas and service qualifications are not recognised here. The use of "restrictive" certificates here makes it harder for our aviation workers to get higher salaries, if they have less option of getting a job overseas, without sitting more exams. Also they don't employ any extra certificated people than they need on a shift. One person signs it all out. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

The sooner the Government of this country realises the FAA system is so far superior to any botched up bastardised euro adaptation, and adopts it enmass, the far better off we will all be in this country.

 

My open and continuing criticism of the current CASA system is backed by past, and very recent first- hand experience, so don't even entertain the idea of suggesting I'm not up to date there !........and what about you Turbs?...what exactly do you base your knowledge and opinions on ?..............Maj...

Ive been dealing with CASA since 1969, and haven't had the same problems as you, but then I've had the luxury of being able to park an aircraft outside the workshop and ask "Can you fix this thingy?"

 

What I'm saying is that CASA are more under seige than at any time in the past, so if you want to push the FAA agenda, now is the time to talk to your local member, al tough you'd want to do some checking first - the Safety Management System FAA has to comply with now is the exact same document that RAA has to comply with.

 

Because of what demonstrably has happened in the last 12 months or so, I'd say the only way we won't see big changes in CASA is if Warren Truss doesn't stop trying to sweep the problems under the carpet.

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

One person signs it all out here...he's called the Chief Engineer or maintenance co-0rdinator. I would agree we don't need ICAO in ULs, however I feel you may be over- reacting and confusing basic Far 103 (US) and 95.10 machines here with the new LSA rules internationally. Nor is ICAO a control group or regulating group, it is there to set or recommend international standards for the overall betterment of aviation..........

 

We Aussies have always punched above our weight with aircraft design and advancements over the years. However Europe is now leading the way in both because they are not completely shackled by unnecessary over- regulation..........Maj...

 

 

[facthunter]

On the bottom of most licences it will often state ICAO compliant. (where applicable). I just can't believe ICAO would want to buy into a tin of worms such as our operations . Wouldn''t do either organisation much good. LSA is a stop gap formulation from the USA.. Europe have their (restrictive) formulations too. It looked for a while that we were in the forefront of not being bound by unnecessary restrictions. How many times have I heard, "if you want all this stuff go GA?." Well we are NOT GA .Are we being turned into GA? I don't know for sure but convince me. It might take a while because I'm a sceptic about McCormack as I've read everything that he has written and said officially, and it's all there. I'm not happy with our standards but I'm not happy with GA or the Airlines as I have quite a few contacts (mates) all over the place and get a bit of good ( I believe accurate) feedback. I don't believe the CASA have performed meritoriously or even satisfactorially .Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Don't know if Australia was an original signatory with ICAO...but we have been part of it for many years ( unless CASA decided they knew more).

 

Yes we were the world leaders in regulatory freedoms (ULs I''m talking). That all ended when CASA came through the door !...there are factions within the RAAus membership block who would like to see us become GA, and I'm sure CASA wouldn't mind, as they would have more control ( they like control !) however there are also those who'll fight it till the end.................Maj....

 

 

[Methusala]

Maj, I think that these people who want to excuse Big Brother are trolls. They have, most likely, some personal reason for boosting the regulator and confusing those whose interests are being attacked. Like the members of RAA who just want to fly reponsibly without all of the crap (such as, "Oh, I don't like the fact that your numbers don't have a HYPHEN between the type number and the identifier!" If wishing to be SO pedantic, why not require the implied O before 393? NO, it is all petty games indulged by a regulator who plainly doesn't like us. They probably in private discuss us as some toy train mob. Don't be distracted by their trollish arguments, I think what you say makes a lot of sense. Don

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Thanks Don, sometimes I think I am on my own there...nice to know I'm not !................Cheers.

 

 

[turboplanner]

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/15/pel-air-senate-hearing-sensation-casa-hid-key-safety-audits-from-atsb/

[frank marriott]

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/02/15/pel-air-senate-hearing-sensation-casa-hid-key-safety-audits-from-atsb/

Relevance?????

 

Fuel reserves, use of alternates, duty/flying hrs. Bit of a stretch to apply any of that to RAA ops.

 

 

[Methusala]

IGNORE TROLLS!!!

 

 

[kaz3g]

(a) It's a very poorly thought out, even a targeted option for GA pilots in poor health to drop back to one passenger, and lose some of their freedoms.

Hi Turbo

 

The only significant freedoms lost appear to be in regard to number of pax (2) and MTOW (1500 kg).

 

For most of us with sports type aircraft that's not much of a restriction.

 

McCormack said: "The new medical certificate restricts CASA licensed pilots to flying single piston engine aircraft weighing less than 1500 kg maximum take-off weight. Pilots must operate at less than 10,000 feet above sea level in visual metrological conditions, with only one informed and consenting passenger on board. If a control seat is occupied by an appropriately licensed pilot with a current class 1 or 2 medical certificate these restrictions do not apply. Pilots using the new medical will have access to controlled airspace.

 

Thus, if you currently have cross-country (navigation) on your licence or CTA, you will still have it. If you home build your baby with SAAA, you will be able to qualify to do maintenance. No licence renewal fees and no annual rego fees. And a licence you can take overseas and claim an equivalent. Not too bad I would think.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Methusala]

Hi Kaz, I agree with you very strongly. This RPL is a great deal for PPL's who have or are afraid of losing their medicals. Also for PPL's who don't want to front a DAME every 2 years (or whatever it is). This is the same old game of divide and rule that CASA and it's forbears have played forever. Remember when they mooted all aircraft to carry transponders, they got the GFA to support them by creating an exemption for gliders. If it walks and smells like a rat ....guess what! The largest contingent of recent converts to RAA have been such people (PPL's) along with those who considered GA but saw the lower level of restriction in recreational as a benefit. I don't want to create a division between members of the forum. Just to warn members that there just could be (more likely than not) a big, fat conspiracy that we have seen ample warning signs of. Don

 

 

[turboplanner]

Relevance?????Fuel reserves, use of alternates, duty/flying hrs. Bit of a stretch to apply any of that to RAA ops.

It was a link for Major to see some of the problems CASA has right now - The Pelair issue goes on and this should give a good starting points for more links.

Not relevant to RAA operations, but a good start at seeing where CASA is right now.

 

I also read somewhere that John McCormick was leaving.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not what you are restricted to Kaz it's the way the thing is done. If you fail it you go back to the class 2 or class 1 Unless you cheat a bit (and it's open to it) If you have a reported condition or doing the right thing have had tests carried out, even with no evidence found of a problem, you don't get the tick and it is not for you. You go through avmed as before. I think it is a crock and others I am sure will be caught by the medical record. As you do for insurance when going overseas. If you are a cleanskin and front up to a willing doctor you might sail through but have quite a lot of things wrong, like some who never go near a doctor their whole life. I have 50 years of medical involvement with Avmed so am in a different category and being responsible (I hope ) if there is any chance of a problem I check any symptoms out , but the record show/ Presented for suspected heart or stroke cancer etc THAT stays on your record so NO TICK. Go back to avmed and after some to and fro all should be well but lots of dollars. Very disappointing the outcome, as I have been somewhat involved with this new licence for years.. Just one of many negative things about aviation that happens. It could have been a lot better. I will not write any more about it, but if I see you somewhere and you have some time I will tell more. It might change for the better. Let's hope so. Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

Hi Nev

 

Would be nice to catch up. I'll try to get down to the 'Bridge at least for the Christmas flyin if not sooner.

 

Cheers

 

Kaz

 

 

[facthunter]

Haven't been there for a while. No reason not to go except the distance. Kyneton sees more of me . Penfield is closest. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

It's no good bitching about CASA. The government has given it so much power that CASA can run roughshod over the government. Remember what they did to the Liberal minister Anderson who tried to rein them in. They just say it is a safety issue and everyone backs off leaving them to do whatever they like.