Ok give it to me straight and be brutally honest please

[DrZoos]

Whats your thoughts on an Alpi pioneer 300 Standard or Hawk

 

In flight adj prop, retracts, auto pilot (single servo) LAME maintained

 

Id love to know especially from people who have flown them

 

Thoughts on

 

reputation of ac

 

flying characteristics

 

landing ease / difficulty (not to do with retracts v non retracts_

 

in flight adj propeller - ease of use, good or bad performance, worth it or not

 

and anything else you think

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Italian thoroughbred: go for it

 

 

[facthunter]

Flown 200 and 300. All behave very well. Construction is wood frame with Plastic? over fuselage Very good shape from an appearance and aerodynamic point of view.. Retract is clean aircraft. Don't know how strong the gear is but should be fine for owner operator. Landing is easy. No vices with aircraft at all as I recall. Don't think they are cheap and I would like to know it's service and accident record and where it was used. Have flown one with jab 6. The C/S prop where fitted is s adjusted with buttons and a scale. I guess the manual type is available for the Rotax too They can have a bit of play in them and hunt a bit sometimes. Don't know how hot they get on a sunny day but you could fit blinds. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Thanks Nev & FT

 

What you say seems to be very consistent with what we have been told by friends. I know of 3 people who have flown the 200 or 300 and loved it, but its always good to ask around as much as possible. Its private owned by a fastidious LAME, 105 hours 2 yrs old. Got gas suspension on all 3. Its got a blind which is good for hot weather. Also rotax powered. Its got the flybox prop mgmt box http://www.flyboxavionics.it/en/pr1-p.html

 

There is two for sale 50km apart. both on aviation advertiser so we are looking at both this weekend

 

 

[facthunter]

Might be nice to have a rapid pitch change facility but you could anticipate things pretty well even if it wasn't. They are a class design If I had a concern it might be the looking after of the wood. I haven't gone into it at length, so I have no knowledge of any specific problem. Being nice to fly is a plus (Like a Chipmunk) ..Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Whats involved in the wood ?

 

I thought with this finish theyde be pretty durabl ?

 

 

[facthunter]

As long as you don't get a fuel leak. Wood is natures composite and it's enemy is moisture and mildew. nev

 

 

[metalman]

As long as you don't get a fuel leak. Wood is natures composite and it's enemy is moisture and mildew. nev

And always being hangared is a must for timber aircraft, being outside is hard on any aircraft but timber really needs to be protected from the elements. I've never flown one. But they're a sweet looking plane, I filmed one if the lethbridge ones taking off last year( I think it's on my utube channel) at the toy run ,looked nice,

Matty

 

 

[Guest steve-nz]

Hi there,

 

I own an Alpi 200, with the Rotax 100hp and inflight adjustable prop.

 

My plane PKT is an ex factory demonstrator and really, it is very very nice.

 

Overall, a joy to fly, stall is very forgiving, landings are great and this is from a low hour pilot as well only having just over 90 hours in total and most of that on a Jabiru.

 

Cruising speed for the 300 is a bit higher than the 200, in NZ the 300 seems to have less payload capacity than the 200.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Cheers thanks guys. Im guessing a few nights and days in the weather when travelling wont be too much of an issue??

 

Yeh the 300 fully optioned with adj prop and retracts is 329kg

 

Had a test fly in two on the weekend since asking this. Very well behaved aircraft. The stall was a complete non event, with and without flaps, with and without power.

 

Took a ride in a 300 standard and a 300 hawk. The standard has a lot of dacron on the wing which doesnt really interest me a lot. The hawk only has dacron on the control surfaces.

 

I was in the right hand seat though and i have never flown using the WRONG hands. And with guages and switches in unfamiliar places. This combined with the busy-ness of retracts, prop that im unfamiliar with and a landing strip less then half the length and 1/10th the width that im used to made for some anxiety on approach. So much so that i refused to land it. Sorry just cant fly a plane from the wrong seat in those conditions and with a bit of a cross wind.

 

So the flight characteristics where beautiful and FAST, very fast. When they say 130kts cruise they mean it. It averages 130 easy and would do it all day...

 

Apart from having to plan ahead to slow it down for the circuit it seemed to behave very well and the landing with the gas struts was like sitting into a lounge chair, even when we touched as some aircraft would bounce. The damping of gas seemed to be a huge bonus.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Cheers thanks guys. Im guessing a few nights and days in the weather when travelling wont be too much of an issue??Yeh the 300 fully optioned with adj prop and retracts is 329kg

Had a test fly in two on the weekend since asking this. Very well behaved aircraft. The stall was a complete non event, with and without flaps, with and without power.

 

Took a ride in a 300 standard and a 300 hawk. The standard has a lot of dacron on the wing which doesnt really interest me a lot. The hawk only has dacron on the control surfaces.

 

I was in the right hand seat though and i have never flown using the WRONG hands. And with guages and switches in unfamiliar places. This combined with the busy-ness of retracts, prop that im unfamiliar with and a landing strip less then half the length and 1/10th the width that im used to made for some anxiety on approach. So much so that i refused to land it. Sorry just cant fly a plane from the wrong seat in those conditions and with a bit of a cross wind.

 

So the flight characteristics where beautiful and FAST, very fast. When they say 130kts cruise they mean it. It averages 130 easy and would do it all day...

 

Apart from having to plan ahead to slow it down for the circuit it seemed to behave very well and the landing with the gas struts was like sitting into a lounge chair, even when we touched as some aircraft would bounce. The damping of gas seemed to be a huge bonus.

With experience, you will find that it doesn't matter what hands you use. Going from LH on stick and RH on throttle to RH on stick, LH on throttle is a 2 second conversion.

 

 

[facthunter]

The retract plane is quite slippery. You have to allow for washing the speed off and if you want to lose height as well it takes space. This is unusual in a U/L . (having a good L/D) Normal in a commercial. I am sure you will like flying it, and it doesn't need a lot of runway if you nail the speeds. Very well behaved plane Eh? Nev.

 

 

[av8vfr]

I agree Nev.. In GA you have to nail the landing number because inertia of the 1000+kg machine will have you balloon in ground effect if fast... but I can often approach "hot" (ie +10kts) in RAAus because I know when I pull the throttle, speed washes off pretty fast because of the light airframe which will slow up quickly.

 

 

[alf jessup]

I agree Nev.. In GA you have to nail the landing number because inertia of the 1000+kg machine will have you balloon in ground effect if fast... but I can often approach "hot" (ie +10kts) in RAAus because I know when I pull the throttle, speed washes off pretty fast because of the light airframe which will slow up quickly.

My Sierra doesn't slow up too well if you carry 10kts more it will float forever not wanting to come down.

 

Alf

 

 

[facthunter]

Adherance to the "bug" speed is quite a surprise . If you are not used to flying to ONE knot you had better get used to it quick. Of course it's easier with a high inertia plane. Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

My Sierra doesn't slow up too well if you carry 10kts more it will float forever not wanting to come down.Alf

My Auster did its hot bitumen trick last weekend. I was down to about 30 knots and holding it 3point just off the runway and it started going up again.

 

It was hot and the wind a bit gusty, too. That's a "float" of a different kind.

 

Had to give a little squirt of throttle and try a second time.

 

K az

 

 

[DrZoos]

The small wings allowed a pretty swift touchdown not too much float at all, but as nev said if you want to slow her down and descend at the same time she takes some forward planning. The adj prop on full fine is mighty handy for bringing her back from 130 to within gear down and flaps speed. I think without the adj prop she would need a lot more planning.

 

 

[ruffasguts]

My Auster did its hot bitumen trick last weekend. I was down to about 30 knots and holding it 3point just off the runway and it started going up again.It was hot and the wind a bit gusty, too. That's a "float" of a different kind.

 

Had to give a little squirt of throttle and try a second time.

 

K az

So Kaz just a normal day for us auster drivers (haven't used the hot bitumen excuse in a long while)

Mick W

 

 

[facthunter]

Actually I'm a great believer in spoilers. Maybe one day they will be more universally used in the more efficient types. Differential ones make turning easier. Ailerons are 1/2 way to wing warping. though of course they ( the spoilers) don't work well upside down. Bugger!..

 

PS Hot bitumen IS an excuse with an Auster. Nothing should fly that slow anyhow The slightest gust doubles the lift in that situation. Nev

 

 

[av8vfr]

My Sierra doesn't slow up too well if you carry 10kts more it will float forever not wanting to come down.Alf

I know some of the Jabs float forever in ground effect as is the same for low wing aircraft.. but seriously, logic tells you if you are 10 kts over in something that weights 2+ times your RAA A/C landing weight then it will take longer (due to inertia) to wash that speed off. Put it down early and unhappy time..

Yes RAAus aircraft are susceptible to the same effect, but not to the same degree.. Just pointing out some of the differences between classes for the inexperienced, not an argument..

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Actually I'm a great believer in spoilers. Maybe one day they will be more universally used in the more efficient types. Differential ones make turning easier. Ailerons are 1/2 way to wing warping. though of course they ( the spoilers) don't work well upside down. Bugger!..PS Hot bitumen IS an excuse with an Auster. Nothing should fly that slow anyhow The slightest gust doubles the lift in that situation. Nev

Erhmm - the Auster airspeed system has about 13 knots of position error at the stall - i.e. it reads about 13 knots low. That error reduces as the speed increases. A knot or two fast makes a big difference - and so does the smallest amount of water in the plumbing.

 

 

[facthunter]

You do get some very low indicated airspeeds with them. Nev