Ultralight puts down in Banks Strait, Tasmania

[Ultralights]

i would rather fly over the straight in anything rather than over some tiger country in the alps regions. very ugly terrain in there, and good chance you would never be found.

 

and statistically, water ditchings are quite survivable. only the temp of the water would dictate survivability.

 

and after crossing the straights recently, it isnt that daunting, longest leg is 50nm over water, and from 3500ft, there is land in sight at all times.

 

if i was doing it in a drifter os thruster, i would probably consider an immersion suit in winter..

 

actually, navy pilots wear similar stuff when water temps drop below 16degC.

 

 

[facthunter]

If anyone else is wanting to do it I would NOT recommend releasing the seat belts. Debate that If you wish. Maybe in a Trike which is much more deadly in a ditching situation, so much so that you might want to get clear of it before it hits. We have covered this extensively before. Statistically they were most fortunate, being the only ones to survive a ditching in the strait so far. Nev

 

 

[greybeard]

Well, I wasn't there, I didn't get to make a decision, I have absolutely no idea the exact circumstances, I was miles away, It wasn't me.... ( fill in your own circumstance and relevance here ), so I'm not going to speculate out of ignorance

 

Glad to see that all the parties actually involved are ok.

 

 

[Methusala]

Don't accuse me of acting out of ignorance and don't speculate about what's going on in my mind,please! I did not speculate, I merely offered my opinion about an action which appears to be reckless and foolhardy. Regards, Don

 

 

[Teckair]

Oh I can just hear what could happen next as a result of this ".... we should ban these irresponsible people from doing this. we should pass legislation to prevent a repeat ..."Where is adventure without risk ....??????

You will not hear that from me David I think people should be able to do these things if they understand the risk and they do not affect others. I have done enough Thruster flying to form an opinion about that sort of 'adventure' and I was just saying what I thought, hopefully that will still be allowed.

 

 

[facthunter]

The best advice I can offer is what was given to me when I started flying two stroke powered aircraft. NEVER fly over what you can't land on. I TRY to stick to that. IF I can't, I try to make the time as brief as possible. Ultralights mentions the steep tall timbered ALPS. I agree they qualify as unsuitable as a landing site you could hope to walk away from...

 

I would bet these two fella's would not be keen to do it again, and I'm not much of a gambler. I don't mind risk where skill is needed to succeed, but relying on luck alone? No thanks.. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

Straight from the horses mouthhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-28/rescued-men-lucky-to-survive-crash-off-tasmanias-north-east/5050482

Good link if you think it was a good idea ask yourself will these guys ever try that again? Sure they might have got away with it this time but???

 

 

[David Isaac]

They were only a couple of kids at 23yrs each. I reckon they did pretty well. They sure have a story to tell.

 

 

[alf jessup]

W

 

The best advice I can offer is what was given to me when I started flying two stroke powered aircraft. NEVER fly over what you can't land on. I TRY to stick to that. IF I can't, I try to make the time as brief as possible. Ultralights mentions the steep tall timbered ALPS. I agree they qualify as unsuitable as a landing site you could hope to walk away from...I would bet these two fella's would not be keen to do it again, and I'm not much of a gambler. I don't mind risk where skill is needed to succeed, but relying on luck alone? No thanks.. Nev

Well Nev

 

The Pax wasn't too keen on crossing ever again on the interview they gave.

 

Well I guess they are a lot like the rest of us who think it will never happen to us.

 

Well they have had it happen to them and they were fortunate enough to live so I guess it is a life changing experience for them both.

 

 

[facthunter]

I've done two searches in Bass Strait.. Both unsuccessful. It's a wild, cold, unpredictable bit of water. Hopefully the story they tell will not encourage others. What a waste of 2 lives it would have been if they hadn't had the luck they did. I know Eugene has done it many times but then his plane was nearly new. These old two strokes don't have the care and attention they used to years ago when they were the norm. It's a bit like Russian Roulette. nev

 

 

[farri]

When we stop exploring and sit on our hands we are dead.....Live a little. Thumbs up to everyone involved

I`ve talked the talk and walked the walk with Ultralight flying but I can only agree to a point because as I`ve said! forgetting the $ cost, it`s others who have to come to the rescue and at times their own lives are in danger.

 

I want my engine failures to be well within gliding distance to a safe landing area. I taught it, I`ve always flown this way and had I not, I would have gone to the next world a very long time ago and taken someone else with me.

 

Having walked away from too many engine failures, I don`t believe that staring death in the face, because there is nowhere to land safely when the engine has failed, can be called living!

 

Frank.

 

 

[facthunter]

Glad to hear wise words from you Franco, as I respect you judgement highly ( You have earned it with your extensive experience and responsible attitude). People have the right to take risks they assess, but I never wish to encourage them and it often does involve others ( Myself in a couple of instances) in costs and risk. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

The best advice I can offer is what was given to me when I started flying two stroke powered aircraft. NEVER fly over what you can't land on. I TRY to stick to that. IF I can't, I try to make the time as brief as possible.

I did a lot of time with two strokes and followed that rule otherwise I would be dead by now, I still fly with that rule in mind even though I no longer fly 2 strokes and it still applies 912s and VWs still stop. I think the safest way to fly is to expect the engine to stop every time you go flying.

 

 

[facthunter]

Be prepared for it anyhow. I agree with that Teckair. I think instructors should teach that view. When you have a lot of engines there is even more likelihood of one failing, and on every take-off you have briefed for it and are ready to react. Nev

 

 

[winsor68]

Good link if you think it was a good idea ask yourself will these guys ever try that again? Sure they might have got away with it this time but???

I agree. But for goodness sack lets not become the sort of people and flying fraternity that is sunk under an overweight burden of restrictions that would stop anyone's right to try. Lest we forget... Flying is about calculated risk is it not?

 

 

[rankamateur]

longest leg is 50nm over water, and from 3500ft, there is land in sight at all times.

Why wouldn't you fly higher to give your self more glide distance? Are there ATC restrictions?

 

 

[Rodr]

In 1985 I bought a lightwing with a 582 and would have flown it over the straight If given the opportunity,UNTIL, the engine failed over open country and a safe landing evolved. It was then that I made the decision that I would never fly a two stroke powered aircraft again no matter what pressure came my way.

 

I am still flying regularly in my own aircraft , since then they have been Jabiru 4 and 6 cyl and a 8 cyl in a Mk26 Spitfire and currently a Rotax 912 uls ---4cyl !!!!

 

The engine failed at 107 hrs absolutely no warning and just disintegrated ,my advice since then to any buyer pilot is if you are going to do any serious flying over anything you cannot land on safely then give two strokes a miss!!!!

 

 

[winsor68]

At 50 kms realistically not too many Ra Aus aircraft are going to have the glide performance to make land even at maximum height...might buy you some time before you get wet. Depending on wind it could cost you some time...

 

 

[storchy neil]

Tassie to vic 143 nm aprox sharks and wales rescue time hr and half

 

mt isa qld to booroloola nt 330 nm aprox desart more desart and bugger all else

 

yes you can see land rescue time if you are lucky four hrs

 

my gues at these times

 

good to see that they had plb and had the sence to activate it

 

some time height is not the best as I have flown from wagga at 5000 ft with 15 knot head wind at 2500 3 to 5 knot cross wind on the same day

 

flying from jabiro to mkt Darwin at 5000 ft had 40 knt on the tail neil

 

 

[XP503]

I'd be at 9999ft the whole way in a thruster!

 

 

[DrZoos]

They where not crossing to the mainland they where only heading for Kangaroo island.on the fateful leg

 

 

[alf jessup]

They where not crossing to the mainland they where only heading for Kangaroo island.on the fateful leg

Flinders Island Dr Zoo's

 

Kanga is in Sth Oz but we knew what you meant.

 

 

[ExJourno]

I'd be at 9999ft the whole way in a thruster!

You mean 9500 or 8500 depending on your direction, yeah? no one can legally cruise at 9999, can they?

 

 

[rankamateur]

The extra five or six thousand feet would have to be an advantage unless you are an avid whale watcher. A lot of the land you can always see at 3500 feet would be more likely give you somewhere to sit with the seals while you await rescue after your ditching, rather than any serious out landing option.

 

 

[David Isaac]

In 1985 I bought a lightwing with a 582 and would have flown it over the straight If given the opportunity,UNTIL, the engine failed over open country and a safe landing evolved. It was then that I made the decision that I would never fly a two stroke powered aircraft again no matter what pressure came my way.........The engine failed at 107 hrs absolutely no warning and just disintegrated ,my advice since then to any buyer pilot is if you are going to do any serious flying over anything you cannot land on safely then give two strokes a miss!!!!

Whilst I clearly understand that 2 stroke engines are prone to sudden stoppage, there is always a reason. I would suggest that in your case for a 582 to ' disintegrate' at 107 hours is very rare. Many have done 100s of hours way past the recommended TBO OF 300 hrs. There have been way too many of a known brand 4 stroke out there that just 'suddenly' stop as we'll between 100 and 200 hours, however, 4 strokes tend to be able to run on a partial engine failure whereas a 2 stroke is entirely relying on the crankcase pulse to continue to operate, so a single piston failure will absolutely stop a 2 stroke but may not actually stop a 4 stroke (but the vibration may be chronic).2 strokes need a thorough maintenance and checking regime to keep them reliable and I know that too many just fly them till they stop and just say " .... Oh well it is just a 2 stroke ...". I have experienced 2 stroke engine failure for a reason that was avoidable in my earlier days.

 

IMHO there is too much paranoia about 2 strokes, however, if I had the choice between two engines of the same output and weight, one being a 2 stroke and the other a 4 stroke, subject to brand reputation, I would be biased to a 4 stroke.

 

All engines fail for reasons, some of the reasons are detectable in advance if you have an inspection and maintenance regime in place. To simply outrule 2 strokes on reliability alone is in my view a narrow perspective.

 

I wouldn't fly a substantial distance over water in an old 447, 503 or 582, however, I would if the engine was near new, had been thoroughly checked (including a bore inspection or pull down if necessary) and ignition and fuel systems fully inspected and run in service for a few hours post the service inspection. II would also carry all the necessary survival gear including a dry suit (thermal immersion clothing).

 

Would I fly my 1951 Auster J1B with the antique Gipsy Major engine to Tasmania. Damn right I would, but not without a thorough check and again all the right gear. Most aircraft that have gone down in the Bass straight had 4 stroke engines. We will never know why they failed, they have never been found ... Ask Davey Jones.........

 

Those of us that choose to only fly over areas they can land on, would never experience the adventure of flying to Tasmania, and that is fine, that is their choice. I don't believe that gives them the right to criticise those that are prepared to and have taken the appropriate precautions. On the surface and without any real information about their preparation, the only criticism I would have of these two young fellas is that they were not wearing thermal immersion suits and had the rescue been delayed, it may have cost them their lives. But then again I only comment with the benefit of hind sight.