Jabiru Engine 2200 Mechanical Problem Reporting

[rick-p]

I have read so much in recent times about the Jabiru 2200 engine's problems and I think that I can safely say that it is very hard to seperate fact from fiction.

 

On this point I don't think that I'm on my own.

 

Anyway just an idea but how about we seperate the fact from the fiction and use this thread to report on the factual problems the end users of this power plant have experienced.

 

That is anything ranging from a minor problem to a major problem resulting in a complete engine failure.

 

The reporting should be brief at first just enough to establish a trend and then a more in depth examination of the issue could be embarked upon.

 

For example state the problem and the resultant effect and only if 100% known the cause of the problem, no guessing please.

 

We don't at this point need engine hours, place of incident or the time of the year.

 

These matters to start with are irrelevant to the initial categorisation of the various problems.

 

It is my view that by approaching the issue this way with the reporting of absolute fact not theory or guess work the end result will benefit all end users of these motors.

 

Also there should not be self denial, everyone who has had a genuine mechanical problem with these motors please report it here in this thread.

 

No Jabiru knockers please as this type of activity achieves nothing for anyone.

 

It is my view that by doing this if there are genuine major problems with the subject motor then they need to be identified and rectified, not just be the Saturday night topic of bellyachers and whingers.

 

It does work look what Tony Hayes has achieved with the Thruster Group.

 

Regards to all,

 

Rick-p;)

 

 

[jetboy]

oil pressure

 

Rick,

 

a factual thread is a good idea. I would prefer to see serial nos, tis information included as they made many changes which affect the outcomes.

 

I will put my item in the list in case it helps others. I know that at the time I solved my problem, an OEM using this engine was having low oil pressures in about 30% if new installations.

 

2200a - ser. 1680 (2003) hours = 1

 

tractor installation, optional oil cooler not fitted, fuel pump not fitted.

 

SB 004-2 oil pump mod carried out. oil = aeroshell 15W50

 

stable oil system readings: startup 50 psi, cruise @ 2400 rpm 20psi,220 deg F, cruise @ 2700 rpm, 20psi,230 deg F.

 

Added oil cooler adaptor and one length 6' of AE601 aeroquip hose with AN6 fittings.

 

stable oil system readings: startup 50psi @ 900rpm, cruise @ 2800 rpm, 50 psi @ 180 deg F, 47 psi @ 200 deg F, 40 psi @ 220 deg F, 35 psi @ 230 deg F.

 

I later did fit an oil cooler ( a proper one ) but that was for a different reason, and this had no effect on the oil pressures established with the fitting of the hose.

 

These are the facts. As requested, I make no assumptions to the cause and effects. There are plenty of A grade mechanics and lanmower repair experts around here that have opinion. Please also bear in mind that this work was undertaken at a time when coolers were an option and the procedures in the manual, at that time, were followed.

 

Ralph

 

 

[rick-p]

Ralph,

 

I too have an oil pressure problem but because of overseas trips and work commitments that I haven't addressed it properly but hope to do so this weekend.

 

I noticed that you in fact replied to a post of mine about oil pressure problems back in February this year.

 

I will stick to the rules and not make assumptions here but will post the facts in due course.

 

The oil pressure problem is the only problem my Jabiru motor has experienced in 250hrs run time.

 

It would also be interesting to have people who have Jab 2200's who have had no problems with there motor to report so and give TTIS of the motor and further, report on their level of maintenance.

 

Statistically that information would be of a great benefit as it could assist in a number of ways such as indicating whether or not a quality control problem at the factory exists.

 

Another point I wish to make is that we are not interested in Jabiru bashing as it's not appropriate.

 

I'm sure that if we do come up with repetitive problems and we collectively bring it to Jabiru's attention that they will listen as they are not in business to fail or to shaft the people who purchase their products.

 

They are highly successful and I would think that they wish to stay that way.

 

As the information comes in I will extract it from the posts and categorise it first and then we will proceed with stage two which I will ellude to later when and if my initial proposal is a success.

 

Kindest regards,

 

rick-p

 

 

[Ross]

Hi Ralph

 

My J160 kit#14 is yet to fly but it has engine number 22A 1906 so it is in the middle of all the oil cooler and oil pump changes that were made or recommended by Jabiru. It does not have hydraulic tappets which came out a little later on with its own set of modifications then there are the engine, carburettor and jet changes that were also made let alone the changes to the fuselage mostly minor (that I know of) in the cabin and control arrangement.

 

So as you point out when talking of these engines it is very important to nominate the engine number and whether the mods are all installed.

 

Regards

 

 

[rick-p]

Ross, yes it's important to nominate the engine number and the mod's installed in the ordinary course of things but at the moment all that is needed initially is that it's a Jabiru 2200 but if people posting wish nominate engine number etc then they are welcome 6to do so.

 

I'm at the moment only interested for perpose of putting into categories the problems that have been experienced with these motors.

 

I'm trying to develop a statistical format for the Jab motor's that once in place, if it works, hopefully will operate to pinpoint areas that need immediate engineering attention and other areas that are strictly maintenance matters.

 

I don't want advice on the probable cause of a problem at the moment only factual information as to the problem and the cause if can be giveen wiyh 100% certainty then we can get into the area causes and fix's for the problem.

 

I'm doing off my own bat with no thought of gain for myself only that, hopefully, everyone with these motors will get some benefit out of it in the long run.

 

My time is valuable to me ($400 plus per hr) so please if people don't want me to attempt this research project then tell me and I won't bother to waste my time with it.

 

Ian has given us a wonderful vehicle in these forums in which we can gain a wealth of knowledge if used appropriately such as what I'm trying to acieve now.

 

Regards,

 

Rick-p

 

Reg

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Rick,

 

Thanks for starting this thread. My issue, as you know, relates to valves and some of the problems of late with these valves. I see what you are trying to do here and it is a wonderful thing. I personally have not been flying any of the aircraft in question at the time of incident. To give you an accurate idea I would have to get more info on engine, hrs etc so it could be accurate reporting. If I posted here now on hearsay it would defeat the purpose of what you are trying to do mate. In saying that I flew one of the club Jabs this afternoon with more hours on the engine that I would care to think about (prior rebuild) and had absolutely no drama at all. Was purring like a kitten.Running like a dream one could say. This one has different valves (supplied by Jabiru) to the ones that failed. It seems a common thing for a certain engines valves to break at the 450-500hr mark. I will get back to this thread re this issue. I need more info mate but what you are doing is wonderful. Thanks.

 

 

[rick-p]

Thanks Darren and just to keep everyone informed valve problems are in the lead.

 

I have had a couple of PM's reporting on this problem.

 

Anyway I will keep you all posted.

 

I note that there has been 3 replies here out of 75 visit by 70 tourists, come on guys start giving us the info we need.

 

Rick-p

 

 

[rick-p]

Well it would appear that there is either no problems with the Jab 2200 contrary to that as previously alleged many times in these posts or the 100 odd tourists that have visited this thread in the last few days don't have or have not flown an aircraft with a Jab 2200 motor or just don't care.

 

Come on guys at least tell us something, how reliable are they?

 

How many hours have your engines done with regular maintenance and no breakdowns?

 

Give us something to work with.

 

Rick-p

 

 

[Geoff]

750 and all going well ;););)

 

 

[Guest brentc]

(6 cylinder - same engine with 2 more pots!) 440 hours and a full top-end overhaul due to leaking valves, stuffed valve-seats and quite a bit of bore wear.

 

Probably due to the lean burn economy kit that was supplied and fitted around 2 years ago at 150 hours.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

I agree Rick. Mate, I am not going to ask certain questions on the phone but will ask next time in person. The best way to do it with these sorts of things methinks.

 

440 hours and a full top-end overhaul due to leaking valves, stuffed valve-seats

This has been the problem with many others I am lead to believe. Around the same time frame with valves snapping and causing a catastrophic failure. You mention a kit though Brent. That could have something to do with it.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Around 2 years or more ago, they released a lean burn kit for all Jab engines. Dropped mine from 27 litres per hour to around 20. Seems it was too lean and now there's a richer jet which I fitted last night. Will know how much it's burning once the engine is back together.

 

 

[Guest JRMobile]

6 cylinder, 350 hrs, lean burn kit installed early last year, running as sweet as, no problems to date.

 

Cheers JR

 

 

[rodknee]

which size jets were in the lean kit

 

 

[Guest brentc]

6 cylinder, 350 hrs, lean burn kit installed early last year, running as sweet as, no problems to date.Cheers JR

So was mine! That's the problem, they run (or atleast appear to run fine), but many things can be wrong behind the scenes. Mine had no symptoms whatsoever, excluding the results of the leak-down test. If you don't have one, BUY ONE!

 

Rodknee, I think I removed the 280 jet and replaced with 285. Not 100% sure as it was late and the wrting was small. There are 2 parts replaced for the changeover. Should bring me up to 22 from 20. Haven't got it on me right now to check.

 

 

[rick-p]

Thanks gents,

 

It would appear from what I have received thus far from PM's and posts in this thread that valves are or have been a real issue for both the 2200 & 3300 but it would also appear that the factory hasn't abandoned anyone yet.

 

It needs collective reporting such as that which we are attempting to do here.

 

There has also been a number of 2200 operator's stating that their motor's have done a quite a number of hours without a problem.

 

We need a lot more posts than that which we have had thus far.

 

I note that there has been in excess of 200 visits to this thread but only about 7 posts on point.

 

I'm sure we can all do a lot better than this, can't we?

 

Regards,

 

Rick-p

 

 

[bfarmsdeb]

Almost new

 

10 hours in the air so far. Starts great, chtand oil temp lower than expected, egt rather high, maybe too economical! Only leakage so far is needle valve in the Bing carb.

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Perhaps some anonymous posts or PM's to Rick if shy might be the go. Rick, last I heard with our mob too was that Jabiru did supply some new valves of new materials and these seem to be ok so far. This is a good thing you have started. Hopefully lots more info/reports/stories follow.

 

 

[Yenn]

I have 70 plus hours on my 2200 Jab with no trouble, runs really well and should continue to do so.

 

I went to Bundaberg today to get my BFR done in a Jab and the flight school CFI says they have no problems.

 

I did note that a small Jabiru in the hangar (not Jabiru's hangar) had one pot off the 6 cylinder engine. The owner told me it was down on compression on 1 cylinder (No 2). They had to pull the cylinder off as they could not separate the head from it on the plane. I saw the cylinder which was in the process of being honed and there was evidence of rusting above the top ring in part of the circumference. It looked to me as if it would hone out OK.

 

The mechanic doing the job told me when I had talked about failures that they had a stretched through bolt from another engine in the adjacent room and I could have a look at it, but I was stopped by a woman in there and told that they did not have a stretched bolt. Somebody was lying!. The mechanic told me the cause of bolt stretching was dirt between the halves of the crankcase at assembly which caused galling. I do not know if that is correct, nor do I know if it was original assembly by the manufacturer or at a later repair.

 

Having seen Jabiru's engine manufacturing and assembly process I have full confidence in their assembly process.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I wonder if that was the same Bundaberg school who's Jab a few months back had a catastropic engine failure when a cylinder 'fell off' ? (or similar, but you get my drift) Interesting that Pots 1 and 2 were low on compression - mine was too. It is the unfortunate reality that many of the other cylinders may be faulty too but you don't know unless you pull them off.

 

Today I attempted to replace my flywheel bolts. They were checked a while back for tension as per the released AD and were ok. When I attempted to remove the second bolt today, it broke off at crank level.

 

An hour or so of drilling and tapping and we got it out again.

 

The tension on the bolts was questionable and felt like about 15 ft pounds. There was evidence on the thrust side of the fly-wheel bolts that the flywheel had been moving. I will re-fit the new bolts tomorrow.

 

My engine only has 440 hours. I would highly recommend the replacement of fly-wheel bolts on a semi regular basis. Mine will be replaced (not just checked) in the next 300 hours which will be a while off, but I think it's worth it.

 

Aside from that we have 3 heads fitted and the remainder go on tomorrow. After a test flight I will re-pitch the prop so as to take advantage of my new-found power and it should go like a rocket.

 

I found that turning the prop over by hand it felt like I had more compression now with 3 cylinders than I did with all 6 at pre-rebuild time, so it should go well when it's back together.

 

 

[Yenn]

brentc.

 

The problem with the Jab at Bundy was only in No 2. I didn't make myself clear and it was only low compression not a failure.

 

 

[Guest ron dunn]

Hi,

 

Up until 18 months ago I operated a flight school at Port Pirie in S.A. The first few years were with Lightwings but the last decade were with a number of Jabiru's. All were fitted with the 2.2 from almost the first made to those current when we retired.

 

We had clocked up around 5000 hours on the 2.2 engines with the main problems being leaky valves which were easy and quick to replace/regrind.

 

The two main failures in that time were flywheel coming adrift (Jabiru enlarged fixing bolts on this rebuild ant to future engines) and we had a big end bolt fracture putting a hole through the side of the block. It was established that the bolt in question had a flaw.

 

It must be noted that most of our engines were used 2/3 of their time on school circuit bashing.

 

The first 2 engines we had rebuilt at Jabiru around 500/600 hundred hours. The second 2 went to 1000 hours before Jabiru o/haul. The last unit was overhauled to Jab specs at our school workshop at 1000 and had run to 1300 odd hours when we closed and the aircraft was sold. Do I think they are reliable? Yes very PROVIDING you do regular and complete maintenence on them - this includes changing your oil every 25 hours and using aero grade (we always used shell)

 

Hope this is of interest to somebody.

 

Cheers

 

Ron Dunn

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Hey Ron and thanks for your post.

 

I for one am very interested.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Ross

 

 

[rick-p]

Thanks Ron we need the good and the bad as I believe that is the only way the truth of the matter will be reached.

 

Apart from some isolated issues there appears to either be or have been some problems with the valves.

 

It's a little hard to tell at the moment because the reports have not been of a sufficient volume to make any sort of informed assessment.

 

I will go quiet again for a little longer to see what transpires, maybe we can achieve a higher than the present 5% posting rate as against tourists just visiting the thread.

 

Regards,

 

Rick-p:crying:

 

 

[airangel]

Airangel

 

Jab engine No334 Big heads fitted at 200 hrs, now 800+ hrs , No problems, oil changed every 25 hrs , valves checked every 75hrs , no adjustment necessary last 400hrs. I like it:chuffed: