Jabiru Engine 2200 Mechanical Problem Reporting

[Russ]

Just a quick query guys...."..week or 2 hence, I'm heading south, filling oil level to top of dipstick marker.....to allow full sump for normal engine burn over long legs etc.

 

why I'm asking is a lot of folks say just fill to lower marker, which is my usual method. But doing extended legs may be a different matter.??

 

Somewhere ?? I read fill to high mark, and your engine just shoves it out into the overflow bottle??

 

Thanks Russ

 

 

[jetjr]

Yep thats what mine has always done, much over lower mark it spits it out then runs for hours with no usage much

 

"overfilling" is Ok for longer legs just keep an eye on overflow bottle

 

Keep an eye on oil temps, they can unexpectedly get hot if overfilled.

 

 

[Russ]

Ok.....recently returned NQ....kingaroy......NQ, my jab 160 performed just great.....

 

I noticed infrequently, that my oil pressure guage would fluctuate / flicker, from high in the green, to just in the green markers. Then the odd time it would stay right down just in the green, then after 10......15 mins it would return to it,s normal position up towards the top area of the green.

 

So......what,s the go here. ( oil levels were checked on route, never below the bottom ref marker on the dipstick )

 

 

[Russ]

Sorry guys......anytime I fuelled up ( avgas ) the local chaps always commented that it was rare that jabs ran avgas, always pulp.....95......98

 

Comments appreciated.

 

 

[Boongala]

Ok.....recently returned NQ....kingaroy......NQ, my jab 160 performed just great.....I noticed infrequently, that my oil pressure guage would fluctuate / flicker, from high in the green, to just in the green markers. Then the odd time it would stay right down just in the green, then after 10......15 mins it would return to it,s normal position up towards the top area of the green.

So......what,s the go here. ( oil levels were checked on route, never below the bottom ref marker on the dipstick )

Russ it more than likely is the Oil Pressure Sender. I have just replaced mine at 360 hours, I had pretty much the same symptoms. We did adjust the oil pressure relief valve but it turned out to be the sender. The senders are known to give problems.

 

 

[biggles]

Sorry guys......anytime I fuelled up ( avgas ) the local chaps always commented that it was rare that jabs ran avgas, always pulp.....95......98Comments appreciated.

Don't go there Russ . Stick with the Avgas .... a little dearer but at least you know what you are getting . If you are unlucky enough to have a valve issue , at least you will know that it wasn't caused by running on Mogas .

 

Bob

 

 

[Oscar]

The standard Jab. oil pressure relief valve can go into 'float' under certain conditions, which keeps it mostly open - reducing oil pressure markedly. It's a known problem that CAMit have addressed with a superior design. The conventional wisdom was to add a washer under the relief valve spring, but that just moved the problem further up the chain, as it were.

 

At the AMSL of Kingaroy, 98 MON - even if it's fresh from the refinery - is in reality about 95. If it's a bit stale - more than two weeks since production - it's basically expensive ULP.

 

 

[Gpshaun]

Hi all I've spent the best part of today reading this thread. ( Its been raining most of the day in South Arm no point going outside) I have some questions I hope some one can answer!

 

1 how many 2200 engines have been manufactured

 

2 how many 2200 engines have failed

 

3 what is the breakdown of failures across the 3 common failure modes

 

A Through bolt failure

 

B exhaust valve failure

 

C cylinder base flange cracking

 

Cheers

 

Shaun

 

 

[coljones]

Hi all I've spent the best part of today reading this thread. ( Its been raining most of the day in South Arm no point going outside) I have some questions I hope some one can answer!1 how many 2200 engines have been manufactured

2 how many 2200 engines have failed

 

3 what is the breakdown of failures across the 3 common failure modes

 

A Through bolt failure

 

B exhaust valve failure

 

C cylinder base flange cracking

 

Cheers

 

Shaun

And how many hours has the total production of Jabiru engines accumulated, what is the average age in hours of each engine and what is the average MTBF of the engines.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...and while we're gathering statistics, how many more people are flying because they can afford a Jabiru, but not a Rotax?

 

 

[Powerin]

These are inaccurate statistic I know but it is probably a reasonable random sample. Here is the breakdown of airframe and engine hours (as stated by owners) in aircraft in the April magazine Member's Market and if they are different from each other (perhaps indicating a premature engine overhaul or failure). If the engine hours have not been state I have assumed they are the same as airframe if the airframe hours are given....

 

Jabirus or aircraft with Jab engines:

 

Under 500hrs with same Airframe and Engine hours: 21

 

Over 500hrs same AF and Eng: 5

 

Hours not stated: 5

 

Engine hrs less than Airframe hrs or major work done under 500hrs: 4 (including cylinder heads and camshaft)

 

Engine hrs less than AF hrs 500-1000hrs: 2

 

Top-end Overhaul under 500hrs: 2

 

Top-end Overhaul over 1000hrs: 1 (I assume a top-end at 1000hrs is normal)

 

Total Jabirus: 40

 

Aircraft with Rotax 912:

 

Under 500hrs same AF and Eng: 17

 

Over 500hrs same AF and Eng: 9

 

Hours not stated: 7

 

Engine hrs less than AF hrs under 500hrs: 0

 

Engine hrs less than AF hrs over 500hrs: 1

 

Engine hrs less than AF hrs over 1000hrs: 1

 

Engine less than airframe but not hours stated: 1 (stated near new engine in an older aircraft)

 

Total Rotax 912: 36

 

 

[Russ]

Less than 40hrs from a rehone,replace rings,head job etc, I've noticed differences in cyl comps, 1 is super good, the other 3 vary quite a lot from the good pot.

 

When we pulled the pots off before, there were 2 pots with stuck rings, hence low comps. Surely now the same happening this early again causes concerns to me.

 

The first 20 hrs after repairs the engine was run in on shell aero, then changed back to aero plus, avgas fuel 98% of the time. CHT's never got high, infact right down the scale green. ( sensor attached to LHR pot )

 

I run the engine on cruise around 2800 revs, so any feedback here would be appreciated.

 

Russ

 

 

[ruffasguts]

Was the oil straight 100 of w100 during first 20hrs

 

 

[Russ]

Shell aero 100. ( I think it is straight mineral oil, )

 

 

[bushpilot]

Are you sure the correct ring size was used?

 

We put about 900 hours a year on our 3 Jabs and have had sticking rings only once in 5 years - on a 3300 engine. Sometimes the ring gaps line up for a time and give lower comps, but then they move and comps go back to normal. We use USA made Philips 20W50 oil all year round, Avgas 100% of the time, and run them at 2850 - 2900 rpm. Jab motors like revs. Like you, we also see very low CHTs - barely in the green on 2200 motors - and low EGTs on the 3300s, where we monitor CHTs and EGTs on all 6 cylinders on Dynon Skyview panel.

 

 

[facthunter]

Since my name was mentioned by Vev a while back, my choice would be Shell w-100 plus or perhaps the multigrade if you are in a cold climate. The "plus" is excellent for camshafts and as good for leaving the engine sit as any oil is. I certainly wouldn't run any mogas under 98 in a jab.

 

I think the oil pressure fluctuations may be due to the ball seat in the relief valve or harmonics in the oil pump drive,(particularly with a higher hours pump) beefing up the pressure with another washer has it's problems and I wouldn't go there as you might run out of travel when the ball has to lift..

 

Overfilling seems to vent oil, but there is not a lot of oil capacity. If you are doing long trips and arriving at places with the oil level down a bit. It isn't a good situation. I would consider having a means of transferring a measured amount of oil in flight if the category of registration permitted the mod. If you know the usage rate just add at regular intervals... Nev

 

 

[bushpilot]

Oil pressure fluctuations most likely to be the sender unit; they often go a bit erratic over time. VDO p/n 360.001 from Repco or similar (non VDO) from Jabiru.

 

 

[Russ]

Ol mate removed cleaned relief valve, noted slight "wear mark" polished it out, oil pressure right up there now, and holding.

 

Comps and leakdowns being done later this week, let's see what comes of it.

 

( BTW...all parts were ex Bundy ) ol mate doing the work, does great work, so low comps so soon will probably have him a tad disappointed......and me.

 

( Camit........where's me certed engine ?? )

 

 

[Geoff B]

I too am a 2200 owner, and to date haven't been let down once, when climbing steep hills Im vey aware of the ease in which I could overheat things but steady up and it will get you home each time, my engine is an early one, 2200J 74, 1998 manufacture from memory, as for maintenance its by the books recommendations

 

A really great little plane

 

Geoff

 

 

[Oscar]

Nice to hear a good report! Out-of-tolerance heat is the absolute enemy of Jab. engines, and the research that CAMit is currently undertaking is showing up linkages between heat-related problems that have 'traditionally' - for want of a better term - usually been ascribed to component / manufacturing 'defects'. There is a very real possibility that out of the work being undertaken, we will all get a considerable advance in the understanding of the whole cooling 'chain', or perhaps 'system' is a better word, can be made to work - and some urban myths about effective cooling system design may well be laid to rest (not to mention some of the wilder postulations about design and materials of construction that are so far wide of the truth that they should be put into the 'third shooter on the grassy knoll' department).

 

 

[dmech]

Having shown the close-up photos of the broken through-bolt in-situ to several learned and experienced people associated with steel-making and structural engineering (in plentiful supply in my location), the verdict is a unanimous one - FATIGUE.The question is why did a pair of through-bolts let go at 675 hours when they are supposed to do 1000 hours before being worked on as part of the top-end overhaul? If we had been experimenting with this engine and making adjustments to it then I could perhaps understand. But this engine was maintained by the book and "a good runner" in every respect with never a hint of trouble, no high temps or low pressures at all. In short, this engine ran perfectly until a sudden and inexplicable failure.

 

Trying to torque-check these bolts, especially on the underside of the engine, is not easy. No special tool seems to exist (such as the cylinder base-nut wrenches for Lycomings and Continentals), and it appears we are left to take it on faith they will not loosen in 1000 hours. In the absence of any signs of crankcase fretting, one has to assume they were tight until the moment of failure. Either that or there is an issue with metallurgy, design, assembly or all three.

 

So I am at the head-scratching phase of the investigation. Meanwhile I have an AOG, an engine somewhere between here and Bundaberg (and hopefully not under three feet of mud) and no seeming solution in sight except the expense of another engine.

 

I had expected better.

dieselten can you tell me which bolts failed top bottom and on which side

thank's A.D.

 

 

[John M]

I have read so much in recent times about the Jabiru 2200 engine's problems and I think that I can safely say that it is very hard to seperate fact from fiction.On this point I don't think that I'm on my own.

Anyway just an idea but how about we seperate the fact from the fiction and use this thread to report on the factual problems the end users of this power plant have experienced.

 

That is anything ranging from a minor problem to a major problem resulting in a complete engine failure.

 

The reporting should be brief at first just enough to establish a trend and then a more in depth examination of the issue could be embarked upon.

 

For example state the problem and the resultant effect and only if 100% known the cause of the problem, no guessing please.

 

We don't at this point need engine hours, place of incident or the time of the year.

 

These matters to start with are irrelevant to the initial categorisation of the various problems.

 

It is my view that by approaching the issue this way with the reporting of absolute fact not theory or guess work the end result will benefit all end users of these motors.

 

Also there should not be self denial, everyone who has had a genuine mechanical problem with these motors please report it here in this thread.

 

No Jabiru knockers please as this type of activity achieves nothing for anyone.

 

It is my view that by doing this if there are genuine major problems with the subject motor then they need to be identified and rectified, not just be the Saturday night topic of bellyachers and whingers.

 

It does work look what Tony Hayes has achieved with the Thruster Group.

 

Regards to all,

 

Rick-p;)

My engine s/n 3237 has just past 1100 hours.

Relied exhaust guides at 960 hours and replaced exhaust valves.

 

#4 cylinder is a bit soft but it's running great.

 

John M

 

 

[Russ]

I've recently replaced my spark plugs with NGK iridiums, I now notice how quickly it fires up.......instantly.

 

For some time now I now dose the fuel with Moreys, pull throughs all became even again quite quickly, infact comps are really good.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I've recently replaced my spark plugs with NGK iridiums, I now notice how quickly it fires up.......instantly.For some time now I now dose the fuel with Moreys, pull throughs all became even again quite quickly, infact comps are really good.

Interesting Russ; what is Moreys?

 

 

[JimG]

dieselten can you tell me which bolts failed top bottom and on which sidethank's A.D.

Hi dmech, how is your research coming along, I'm very keen to hear what you have discovered as I have 2-2200's that I want to rebuild for my own projects.

 

Anything you would like to share will be appreciated.

 

cheers

 

JimG