Bydanjohnson Rumours About A New Pipestrel Trainer

[facthunter]

The main motor might work regenerative but you would delay the descent to make it available and use some extra  energy.   Nev

[kgwilson]

The Pipistrel Electro Aero Alpha made quite a splash when it was introduced in 2019 in WA. From memory it has about an hour endurance and the battery can be swapped out in under 15 minutes. Good for initial training and circuits etc. They will have made quite a few improvements by now I'd say

[BrendAn]

9 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Ah the secret of perpetual motion. I had a discussion about this with a bloke at the aero club & he couldn't accept that my electric car would not charge as it is being driven. I tried to explain regenerative braking but he thought that it should continue to charge as it was being driven as well. Even after some time the penny failed to drop.

perpetual motion is a nice thought but not possible .   the reason i mentioned the generator is someone on another forum said he attached a generator running on a bike wheel to his prius and gained a large increase in mpg.

[BrendAn]

4 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

The Pipistrel Electro Aero Alpha made quite a splash when it was introduced in 2019 in WA. From memory it has about an hour endurance and the battery can be swapped out in under 15 minutes. Good for initial training and circuits etc. They will have made quite a few improvements by now I'd say

trouble is it all comes down to batteries and they don't seem to be improving a lot yet.

[kgwilson]

You cannot get more energy than you use unless there is some other energy source like gravity or kinetic energy from the mass of the vehicle already in motion. Hybrids generate power to charge their battery but use the energy of the petrol engine to do this.

 

There are huge advances in battery technologies happening right now though most that have huge energy density have problems with longevity. There are many companies working on the issues now. Eventually some of these technologies will enter production. Already sodium batteries are being put in to EVs in China & the cost is about 1/3rd of lithium and an Australian Lithium Sulphur battery promises 500% more energy than existing Lithium ion batteries at half the cost. There are many more.

[BrendAn]

12 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

You cannot get more energy than you use unless there is some other energy source like gravity or kinetic energy from the mass of the vehicle already in motion. Hybrids generate power to charge their battery but use the energy of the petrol engine to do this.

 

There are huge advances in battery technologies happening right now though most that have huge energy density have problems with longevity. There are many companies working on the issues now. Eventually some of these technologies will enter production. Already sodium batteries are being put in to EVs in China & the cost is about 1/3rd of lithium and an Australian Lithium Sulphur battery promises 500% more energy than existing Lithium ion batteries at half the cost. There are many more.

Lots of talk until we see something that is real and working.

[Carbon Canary]

I believe the E22 Spark is about a year away from certification. It will be interesting to see if it’s any better than the Pipistrel.

[facthunter]

There's no engine warming or run ups and mag checks. That alone will give you  more flying time/ value for money.  As far as playing around and trying to get something into the battery do what you need to do. FLY the Plane and keep a look out.. Power is another control and the electric motor is  more reliable than perhaps anything else including a Jet motor..   Nev

[Thruster88]

20 hours ago, onetrack said:

Article here ...

 

https://particle.scitech.org.au/tech/aussie-first-electric-plane-takes-to-wa-skies/

The reporter may have lapped it up, 1000nm commercial flights are now possible with electric. We know the propeller input power required for Cessna Caravan, Beech Kingair, De Havilland dash 8-400 etc. We know how much battery wieght is required to produce the power required for 1000nm flight in these aircraft. Currently they would be lucky to fly 200nm with any useful load. BS doesn't fly. 

[FlyBoy1960]

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

The reporter may have lapped it up, 1000nm commercial flights are now possible with electric. We know the propeller input power required for Cessna Caravan, Beech Kingair, De Havilland dash 8-400 etc. We know how much battery wieght is required to produce the power required for 1000nm flight in these aircraft. Currently they would be lucky to fly 200nm with any useful load. BS doesn't fly. 

Not so fast.  Think solar impulse and some of the latest electric's doing speeds over 120 kts with 6 hours endurance and heavy payloads.  There is even one doing 80 kts for 48 hours between recharging and can carry hundres of tons

[BrendAn]

8 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

Not so fast.  Think solar impulse and some of the latest electric's doing speeds over 120 kts with 6 hours endurance and heavy payloads.  There is even one doing 80 kts for 48 hours between recharging and can carry hundres of tons

post a link please

[turboplanner]

17 hours ago, BrendAn said:

thats true but i wonder if it would extend the range or reduce it.   i guess if it was possible they would already have something like that on there.

Have a look at the “world record” ; it’s flight was extended..........by two ground crews with trailer-mounted generators. 

[skippydiesel]

13 hours ago, facthunter said:

There's no engine warming or run ups and mag checks. That alone will give you  more flying time/ value for money.  As far as playing around and trying to get something into the battery do what you need to do. FLY the Plane and keep a look out.. Power is another control and the electric motor is  more reliable than perhaps anything else including a Jet motor..   Nev

Without experience in all the pre-flight rituals (fuel/oil/pressure's/temperatures/etc)I wonder how a student , training in an EA, will transition into a petrol powered one?

[turboplanner]

20 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Without experience in all the pre-flight rituals (fuel/oil/pressure's/temperatures/etc)I wonder how a student , training in an EA, will transition into a petrol powered one?

Most likely have to add most of those hours back in extra training.

[facthunter]

You probably wouldn't  want to after the electric experience. IF you had to you'd just do it. How many people here are two stroke familiar/capable?   Nev

[FlyBoy1960]

https://aroundtheworld.solarimpulse.com/adventure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse

 

https://www.fai.org/news/fai-ratifies-two-new-speed-records-set-british-all-electric-aircraft

[Carbon Canary]

48 minutes ago, facthunter said:

You probably wouldn't  want to after the electric experience. IF you had to you'd just do it. How many people here are two stroke familiar/capable?   Nev

I have a 2 stroke lawnmower, a line trimmer, a leaf blower and a chainsaw - does that count ? I haven’t managed to get any of them airborne yet, although I did threaten the leaf blower when it wouldn’t start. 😜

[BrendAn]

2 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Have a look at the “world record” ; it’s flight was extended..........by two ground crews with trailer-mounted generators. 

I meant the aircraft doing 80 knots for 48 hours between recharges. Carrying hundreds of tons. I assume he is talking about an airship .

[RossK]

15 hours ago, facthunter said:

Power is another control and the electric motor is  more reliable than perhaps anything else including a Jet motor..   Nev

They should be more reliable, but unfortuantely they are still assembled by humans.

Report on a Pipistrel Alpha Electro

STATUS: Review complete. The electric aircraft was conducting circuit operations when during the climb for the 4th circuit at 600ft AGL, an instrument display warning appeared 'Power control lever failure' which resulted in complete loss of power. The pilot pitched for a glide and a turn back, attempted a reboot cycle of all switches off, pulled the power control breaker, powered on all systems in sequence but the same warning appeared. They repeated this one more time, but power control was not restored. The pilot carried out a successful emergency landing in a field to the north of the runway. DETERMINED OUTCOME: Upon close and detailed inspection of the power controller circuit and connectors on the aircraft, it was identified that the white wire pin in the power controller Molex connector J104M at the main controller PCB was not seated correctly in the Molex connector and was making intermittent contact. This connector had not been handled, serviced or disconnected at any time since the aircraft was delivered from the manufacturer. The pin has now been correctly clipped and seated in the Molex connector to make secure and consistent contact. A tension test was conducted on all pins in the main controller PCB and found no other pins to be loose or 'unseated'. A detailed visual inspection of the power lever PCB and mechanism was completed and no anomalies were found. Initial run-up tests after these actions were taken, including shaking the wiring looms by hand during low-power tests, indicate the loose connection has been resolved.

 

Don't take this as EV knocking, I am looking forward to the day when electric aircraft have decent range comparable to most RAAus/GA aircraft, it's just that in most technical applications, us humans are the weak link.

[turboplanner]

36 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I meant the aircraft doing 80 knots for 48 hours between recharges. Carrying hundreds of tons. I assume he is talking about an airship .

The equation is Exponential power demand = Exponential battery drain. Think about electric drills; you can drill 2 mm holes for a long time before the battery gives up, but if you are drilling 15 mm holes and you have to push hard you may run out of power on the third hole. Aircraft have a very high power demand, and it’s not intermittent with a gearbox,it’s constant so battery capacity determines range.

[onetrack]

With the incredible amount of money and research effort currently being poured into battery development, we can look forward to battery energy density increasing to a viable level within a few short years, possibly as little as 5 years.

 

https://www.monash.edu/news/articles/smaller,-lighter-lithium-sulphur-battery-lowers-costs-and-improves-recycling-options#:~:text=Smaller%2C lighter lithium-sulphur battery lowers costs and improves recycling options,-13 October 2023&text=Researchers at Monash University have,required in a single battery.

[skippydiesel]

13 minutes ago, onetrack said:

With the incredible amount of money and research effort currently being poured into battery development, we can look forward to battery energy density increasing to a viable level within a few short years, possibly as little as 5 years.

 

https://www.monash.edu/news/articles/smaller,-lighter-lithium-sulphur-battery-lowers-costs-and-improves-recycling-options#:~:text=Smaller%2C lighter lithium-sulphur battery lowers costs and improves recycling options,-13 October 2023&text=Researchers at Monash University have,required in a single battery.

And then many of my pre &  flight rituals will be history😢

along with all my lifetime experience/pleasure of internal combustion engines😢

Edited October 25, 2023 by skippydiesel

[turboplanner]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

With the incredible amount of money and research effort currently being poured into battery development, we can look forward to battery energy density increasing to a viable level within a few short years, possibly as little as 5 years.

 

https://www.monash.edu/news/articles/smaller,-lighter-lithium-sulphur-battery-lowers-costs-and-improves-recycling-options#:~:text=Smaller%2C lighter lithium-sulphur battery lowers costs and improves recycling options,-13 October 2023&text=Researchers at Monash University have,required in a single battery.

That's what I thought.....in 1986.

Someone has to invent something.

 

[facthunter]

I'm a piston engine nut but I don't consider them reliable . Jets are perhaps 20 times more reliable. Electric should be even more so If necessary critical switching should have a back up. There's lots of redundancy in good systems  Pitch control needs it. You cannot fly without it.   Nev

[turboplanner]

6 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I'm a piston engine nut but I don't consider them reliable . Jets are perhaps 20 times more reliable. Electric should be even more so If necessary critical switching should have a back up. There's lots of redundancy in good systems  Pitch control needs it. You cannot fly without it.   Nev

Electric reliable?

Have a look around the suburb at the next hard waste collection.

Have a talk to someone with a car built in the last 5 years; sure most of the repairs are under warranty, but a car off the road for days at a time because it has forgotten how to operate the throttle or thinks it might limp home or shuts down the entire braking system links is worse than a 1962 Holden waiting for a part to come from Melbourne.