Shell To Stop Selling Fuel With Ethanol ??

[Guest Michael Coates]

Hi guys, went into the local Shell servo today to fill a drum for the lawnmower and saw a sign on each pump that "This outlet no longer sells E10 or fuel with Ethanol" well this raised my eyebrows and i made for the clerk to get some info.

 

Handed me a nice brochure which basically said it was costing more to make E10 than it could ever save and.... "Ethanol may NOT be suitable for most engines and could cause damage" etc etc....

 

Well thats about time one of the biggies actually got rid of ethanol, lets hope this happens around Australia, much better for our planes !

 

 

[Ignition]

Good to see! Hopefully the prices stay lower too....

 

 

[Guest DWB]

I think it will only be temporary as the NSW Government only deferred the compulsory changeover date to July 2012, unless there has been another back flip. The postponement mentioned was by the former Labor Government. Of course Premium fuel was not included in the compulsory blending.

 

 

[HeadInTheClouds]

Ethanol fuel is good for a lot of cars and a lot of people use it, costs a bit less but doesn't last as many km's (So it can be argued there is no difference cost wise between it and regular unleaded, except with E10 you fill up more) and also it could be argued it is slightly less polluting. Interesting to note that you found someone no longer selling ethanol fuel, earlier this year I stopped for fuel just outside of Newcastle and found that they didn't sell regular unleaded, only E10 fuel and then two types of premium (95 and 98). I found this very strange, but I can use E10 in my car so it wasn't much of a problem.

 

 

[Guest avi8tr]

Victoria stopped selling it probably near a year ago in some of the big outlets. Bad timing for Holden whom had just released their ethanol friendly range of engines.

 

 

[cficare]

I hope that Shell are declaring when they are selling ethanol spiked fuels in Tassie.

 

I've considered them a reliable supplier of untainted fuel (until now!)

 

Down here we have United fuel as well...wouldn't touch it with a barge pole...

 

Many pilots down here are testing fuel for ethanol....some surprising results as well...

 

Every pilot should know how to test the fuel they use for ethanol.

 

 

[Guest avi8tr]

The United near us buys it from shell! The Shell at Moorabbin sells fuel to BP and Mobil. Who knows what you are getting, it's literally Russian Roulette!

 

 

[David Isaac]

Call me cynical but Shell don't make ethanol, they have to buy it from Dick Honan of Manildra fame. Would it not be in their financial interests to snub Ethanol and sell only crude based fuels. That way they control the price, bloody hypocrites.

 

 

[Guest David C]

Both petrol outlets ( BP and Shell ) in my local town of Picton stock only "real " petrol and the Shell outlet has had the E10 bowsers taken out of service . I asked the console person at the Shell what was happening when normal Unleaded was no longer available and he said " it won't happen " ... I suppose we will have to see on that one

 

Dave C

 

 

[Guest DavidH10]

I use fuel from United. Never had any problem, but I test every batch I use in the aircraft for Ethanol. None detected so far. Their 95 RON fuel is labelled as E10, but the one test I did on it showed about 8%. The cars use diesel, not no issue there.

 

As to whether outlets sell E10 or not, that is currently a choice, but after the deferred legislation becomes active, they can only escape it by selling substantially to marine use.

 

E10 isn't really greener, just government policy to appease the global warming adherents.

 

 

[metalman]

E10 isn't really greener, just government policy to appease the global warming adherents.

and there is the bottom line on so much that is going on lately,

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Dick Honan recieved a huge grant to expand his ethanol plant from his bestest mate, EX NSW Premier Bob Carr. Lucky Dick.

 

 

[willedoo]

E10 isn't really greener, just government policy to appease the global warming adherents.

I'd certainly have to agree there. It's always been pie in the sky stuff. Drilling an 8" hole in the ground would always have to be cheaper than dedicating vast areas of productive farmland to growing ethanol crops. I'd say at a guess the world production capacity of ethanol would have almost peaked as we need the land we've got for food production. As far as the green side goes, it's a bit like solar - it can't exist without oil production, bauxite mining, copper & iron ore mining, sand mining, lead mining, & the list goes on. Unless they figure out a way to make things out of air.

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[cficare]

Drilling an 8" hole in the ground would always have to be cheaper than dedicating vast areas of productive farmland to growing ethanol crops....

 

i'm confused....what way are u coming at this...?

 

 

[willedoo]

Drilling an 8" hole in the ground would always have to be cheaper than dedicating vast areas of productive farmland to growing ethanol crops....i'm confused....what way are u coming at this...?

Sorry to confuse, what I meant was that in the long run it has to be more cost effective to drill for oil rather than set up ethanol plants and the associated land use to grow the crops. Ethanol has probably been an interesting experiment, but to increase the useage of it worldwide means the productive land has to be found somewhere or existing food producing land turned over to producing crops for ethanol. Oil always will have critics, but an oil well doesn't need thousands, or 100's of thousands of acres of land to produce the equivalent energy. It's only my opinion, but ethanol is limited in volume of production & useage because of the way it's produced & will probably always be a token thing. You have to grow ethanol, whereas all the oil was formed millions of years ago & all we have to do is get it out & refine it . That's basically what I was getting at.

Cheers, Willie.

 

 

[HeadInTheClouds]

Sorry to confuse, what I meant was that in the long run it has to be more cost effective to drill for oil rather than set up ethanol plants and the associated land use to grow the crops. Ethanol has probably been an interesting experiment, but to increase the useage of it worldwide means the productive land has to be found somewhere or existing food producing land turned over to producing crops for ethanol. Oil always will have critics, but an oil well doesn't need thousands, or 100's of thousands of acres of land to produce the equivalent energy. It's only my opinion, but ethanol is limited in volume of production & useage because of the way it's produced & will probably always be a token thing. You have to grow ethanol, whereas all the oil was formed millions of years ago & all we have to do is get it out & refine it . That's basically what I was getting at.Cheers, Willie.

Sugar cane waste can be used to ferment ethanol. Basically any plant material has the potential, which would reduce the need to have dedicated ethanol crops. What happens when oil runs out? I think that will occur in about 40 years or so from memory...

But I do agree... ethanol will never be a viable fuel source while oil remains cheaper, which will probably be indefinitely. That is unless we find another way to extract it from organic matter which is easier and more cost effective... but again while oil still exists no one will fund the research for this...

 

My prediction is that we will end up skipping ethanol as a complete alternative fuel altogether and move straight to electric.

 

 

[Guest DavidH10]

The only reason E10 isn't already mandated, is that production can't yet support the volume needed to support such a policy. Oh and don't forget that while it needs vast areas of crops to feed it, we now seem to think that irrigation is a bogey man too. Water is for rivers, not for food production!

 

Don't start me...

 

There's lots of fallacies in "green marketing":-

 

- Electricity used to be green and clean until they remembered it is primarily produced from brown coal (in Oz).

 

- Electric cars that were to be all the rage have dwindled to special purpose use for the same reason.

 

- Fuel cell technology is interesting, but in the end needs an electrical energy source for most. An exception is one that runs on natural gas.

 

- Natural gas used to be green and clean, but it still results in carbon dioxide and water.

 

Since carbon dioxide has become the bogey man, there's really only solar, hydro, wind and for base load, nuclear and geothermal. There's lots of other experiments, but they only produce small amounts. I did see an interesting wave power device recently (looks like a string of sausages), but you would have to have hundreds of them tethered in "wave farms" to produce significant quantities of power.

 

At the end of the day, life is a balancing act. Get it out of balance and it does not work. There just isn't one simple answer.

 

 

[Ignition]

The only reason E10 isn't already mandated, is that production can't yet support the volume needed to support such a policy. Oh and don't forget that while it needs vast areas of crops to feed it, we now seem to think that irrigation is a bogey man too. Water is for rivers, not for food production!Don't start me...

 

There's lots of fallacies in "green marketing":-

 

- Electricity used to be green and clean until they remembered it is primarily produced from brown coal (in Oz).

 

- Electric cars that were to be all the rage have dwindled to special purpose use for the same reason.

 

- Fuel cell technology is interesting, but in the end needs an electrical energy source for most. An exception is one that runs on natural gas.

 

- Natural gas used to be green and clean, but it still results in carbon dioxide and water.

 

Since carbon dioxide has become the bogey man, there's really only solar, hydro, wind and for base load, nuclear and geothermal. There's lots of other experiments, but they only produce small amounts. I did see an interesting wave power device recently (looks like a string of sausages), but you would have to have hundreds of them tethered in "wave farms" to produce significant quantities of power.

 

At the end of the day, life is a balancing act. Get it out of balance and it does not work. There just isn't one simple answer.

Solar, hydro, wind, nuclear and geothermal all need large amounts of equipment produced through methods that generally aren't "green" or "clean" too; that equipment usually needs servicing and a fair amount of maintanance over time too, so it isn't as sustainable as it may seem.... Just can't win to 'save' the planet! ;)

 

 

[Spin]

Good riddance, horrible stuff cost me an overhaul on one of my outboards a few years ago, after my local changed over to E10 and the only notification was a tiny little notice on the pumps.

 

 

[cficare]

it's a shame the pollies don't realise/wish to acknowledge the limitation/dangers of ethanol..

 

 

[Guest DavidH10]

it's a shame the pollies don't realise/wish to acknowledge the limitation/dangers of ethanol..

I read some of the reports... They acknowledge that it is unsuitable for aviation use, but only allowed an exemption for marine use. The excuse seemed to be that PULP was not mandated for E10, so those of us who use ULP will have to migrate to PULP when the mandate becomes effective. Those who already use PULP should not be affected.

 

 

[Guest DavidH10]

Good riddance, horrible stuff cost me an overhaul on one of my outboards a few years ago, after my local changed over to E10 and the only notification was a tiny little notice on the pumps.

Hence the reason I test every batch.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Interesting watching 60 minutes last night about drilling and mining in Siberia.They have more oil than Saudi Arabia.There is still plenty of oil left around the world.

 

 

[David Isaac]

And when the oil runs out, we have the technology to extract oil from our coal and we have the largest coal reserves in the world.

 

 

[willedoo]

Interesting watching 60 minutes last night about drilling and mining in Siberia.They have more oil that Saudi Arabia.There is still plenty of oil left around the world.

They say Russia has the largest known oil & gas reserves in the world, but I'm not sure if that includes all of the off shore territory that they claim ownership of in the arctic circle. They're getting pretty excited about the ice shelf shrinking & the future exploration opportunities there that didn't exist before. It's had it impact on aviation as well, being the main reason the Tu-95 & Tu-160 strategic bombers have been brought out of mothballs this year. Their biggest danger is that their present economy is not so diversified, and is highly dependant by oil & gas revenues. This drives all their military & domestic modernization policies, so if the price of oil drops significantly, Russia's stuffed. But I think high prices might be here for a while.

 

Cheers, Willie.