Aeroplane Landing Areas (ala's)

[David Isaac]

I remember last year some time that Bill Hamilton posted about having people who use your privately owned ALAs or should I say non ALAs sign a disclaimer to protect the ALA owner. I can't remember the details because those posts where I interacted with him were deleted. But Bill recommended that ALA owners get a disclaimer written up by a specialist ensuring that the PIC was ultimately responsible no matter what. Regulation 92 (1) states that the PIC is ultimately responsible but we know how things can be argued do we not.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The problem with that is in Tort law you can't make someone sign away his/her right to sue.

 

If you go skydiving for example, and even in some flying clubs you may be asked to sign a ledger, but the signature carries no weight.

 

It does have some benefit in that it is a record that you were warned of the dangers, but if the operator was negligent you can still sue. It's not the same as the old prescriptive era any more.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Correct the only defense for negligence is to prove you were not negligent and the cost to fund the defense could send you broke; that is after all why we have Public Liability insurance and we need to check the exclusions or perhaps what is included in the cover and if in doubt have it specified.

 

 

[Guest DWB]

It's OFFICIAL - my strip is not to be used for Forced Landings without prior permission & induction. Go land in someone else's paddock & sue them for not providing you with the best opportunity. Sounds brilliant doesn't it? What would that say about my attitude to my fellow aviators? Fair dinkum!

 

 

[turboplanner]

You join a parade of many people who have reacted the same way in disbelief Dex.

 

 

[Scotty 1]

A pilot who meet the reasonable intelligence test, could expect to land under these circumstances if a paddock has a mown strip and a windsock, so you would have a duty of care to provide a warning of the obstacles. This could be in the form of large orange balls on the power lines (yes I know, red tape and cost). Practically the best way may be Crosses on the strip when it is not in use by someone whop has been briefed etc.

.

Turbo

 

Been thinking about your ideas about Crosses on the runway etc. I believe any pilot overflying Dex or my strip should be able to determain they are not ALA's or public strips from their locations and the obstructions such as trees and powerlines so therefor must be private or at least on private property. So therefor permission would be needed to "enter". I believe you are expected to allow safe entry to your front door from the street or road so you can then tell them to pi## off, but past that point? Landing in a back paddock? I don't think I would be keen to put crosses on the strip as that could make it look more than it is, a mowed paddock. And besides, mine is suitable for STOL opps only, no matter what some hero types have said like "I could land there" in planes they need to read POH a bit more.

 

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Cheers Scotty

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

I don't think this area would give the impression of an airstrip.

 

No windsock is visible, and whole paddocks have been mown, so I doubt anyone would be able to claim they had an expectation of landing on an airfield if they unexpectedly had to land from this position.

 

Under normal PL principles, the test of negligence would be that a person of reasonable intelligence saw a windsock, and an elongated strip of mown grass with no apparent obstacles on it like cones, or crosses and opted to land there in an emergency - precautionary or forced landing. Prescriptive requirements on the pilot to conduct a formal precautionary landing procedure could possibly be used as a mitigating defence, but are separate issues to the PL case.

 

Where you would have a problem is if someone who knew about your strip decided to come in and ask you afterwards, or just didn't care about regulations, believed he should be allowed to do what he wanted. He would have an expectation that since everyone else in the district had been using your strip, there would be no problems.

 

Don't forget that in the last 30 years there have been a number of cases where thieves who climbed over/cut rural fences have injured themselves because the property owner had done something like building a vehicle pit without guard rails etc.

 

The precedents are there, it's a matter of finding an economical way of managing the risk.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Tubz,

 

How adequate are typical rural property PL policies to protect the owner these days. Do you have to declare every potential risk or are they generally adequate.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

TurboBeen thinking about your ideas about Crosses on the runway etc. I believe any pilot overflying Dex or my strip should be able to determain they are not ALA's or public strips from their locations and the obstructions such as trees and powerlines so therefor must be private or at least on private property. So therefor permission would be needed to "enter". I believe you are expected to allow safe entry to your front door from the street or road so you can then tell them to pi## off, but past that point? Landing in a back paddock? I don't think I would be keen to put crosses on the strip as that could make it look more than it is, a mowed paddock. And besides, mine is suitable for STOL opps only, no matter what some hero types have said like "I could land there" in planes they need to read POH a bit more.

Cheers Scotty

There's a simple answer Scotty,,, When someone 'orrible lobs in,,, shoot 'im... That way, Mum and the kids get to keep the property, and you get free board and lodging and meals and dental and medical and everything for a couple of years. How good is that?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Tubz,How adequate are typical rural property PL policies to protect the owner these days. Do you have to declare every potential risk or are they generally adequate.

I just spent 45 minutes doing a post which covered the history, and all the little quirks of this, then went looking for some statistics and lost the bloody lot.

 

have to get some work done now but will come back to it.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Tubz,How adequate are typical rural property PL policies to protect the owner these days. Do you have to declare every potential risk or are they generally adequate.

For a typical grazing/grain property I imagine they would cover most things, but these are policies you really do have to read.

 

I would imagine they would cover you where someone entered your property and was gored by an out of control bull (you were negligent for not isolating/restraining the bull)

 

If you were employing someone to cut down some trees and cut posts, or even one of the family were doing it that may not be in the policy.

 

If you had a tractor without a roll bar and it rolled and killed someone, where you knew that what you were doing was wrong but believed it was all BS, nanny sate etc, and particularly where you were known for that attitude, that would be culpable negligence which is a criminal offence and you'd be charged with manslaughter and get about 6 1/2 years. You'd also be sued by the deceased's estate, and it may be that the insurer would leave you to it, so there's another couple of million.

 

It may not cover an annual duck shoot, a fund raising barbeque, or even the Sunday gathering of the Fire Committee, so you need to check those out.

 

The most publicised spit from people learning about this for the first time was the club fundraiser sausage sizzle, but what most people didn't realise was that four million Australians (from memory, I'm not going to lose this post by trying to look it up again) used to be hospitalised each year with food poisoning.

 

Non farm activities such as the duck shoot, driving unregistered/No 3P cars around, testing race cars, trail bike riding, camping, flying, gold mining etc are not likely to be on the policy and should be added if you don't want to finish up in the poorhouse.

 

Where the policy cost suddenly becomes prohibitive when these things are added, look at taking out a separate policy for the event. So the duckshoot would be insured for the time only.

 

We did this with speedways in Victoria when in the mid 1980's we were faced with closing down, and we developed a partnership with a US Insurance Company where we audited the facilities for them and became so good at it that premiums came way down and were no longer an issue, and our Auditor used to be hired to audit the US speedways with similar results.

 

Farm operations also need to be analysed for risk. For example since the "falls from heights" legislation you can't load hay bales higher than two metres from the ground without safety railings or a safety harness. The good reason for this was that a steady rate of farm hands were breaking their necks.

 

Around Melbourne this has just about resulted in small bales being replaced by 1 tonne bales with some novel devices to get them in to the horse ajistment places.

 

Landowners who hire casual labour have to be particularly careful. Just asking if they can drive a tractor won't cut it, and just telling the operator to "be careful" features in many lost Cases. You have to "live" the legislation - talk it, work it, plan it, enforce it to minimise risk.

 

What the mine owners do in North Queensland now is make it a prerequisite of employment to have a certificate from a Tafe (which costs the would be employee about $700)

 

So in answer to your query David "Probably not."

 

 

[Scotty 1]

There's a simple answer Scotty,,, When someone 'orrible lobs in,,, shoot 'im... That way, Mum and the kids get to keep the property, and you get free board and lodging and meals and dental and medical and everything for a couple of years. How good is that?

This property is protected 3 days a week by a shotgun.......you guess which 3.......Oh and let everyone know you have a bachhoe to bury the bodies of those that didn't guess right. Told you I'm an upriver boy

 

Turbo and David

 

The property insurance might not be adequate but it did not stop a rise of 23% this year. As far as my strip goes only a very sellected few get an invite.

 

Cheers Scotty

 

 

[cficare]

..can't see any reason to be worried about yobbs lobbing on your patch...i've gotta windsock...(coz i wanna guess how much wind is blowing)..i'd like to see them land!!

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

One of my neighbours in Iowa put signs all round his property that said, "Tresspassers will be shot. Survivors will be prosecuted." Trouble was; Everybody in the district knew ol' Doc Bradley wasn't joking...

 

 

[metalman]

One of my neighbours in Iowa put signs all round his property that said, "Tresspassers will be shot. Survivors will be prosecuted." Trouble was; Everybody in the district knew ol' Doc Bradley wasn't joking...

My Dad was up until a couple of months ago ,living in detroit,,he reckons that you never wound a burglar in the front yard, shoot em good and proper and drag the body through the front door, "no problems" !

He was telling me about a jack theft gone wrong ,the thief breaks into the house and gives the owner a hiding and steals the car out of the garage ,the old guy comes to ,grabs his handgun and runs out the front in time to pump a few rounds into the car, the bad guy jumps out and makes a run for it with the guy chasing him ,still shooting, a ricochet kills another person in their kitchen ! The story so far ,,they're trying to pin the thief for causeing the death as well as the other crimes,,,,,,Dad says if he'd just knock the bugger over in the first place it would have been a lot simpler, fact is the thief will probably sue the car owner for his car not being bullet proof ,so he had to leg it which caused the other events!

 

 

[Guest DavidH10]

Unfortunately, once the burglar has left the premises, one cannot get away with shooting them, as you are no longer "in fear of your life". ie. You are no longer being defensive, but rather offensive.

 

 

[Guest Michael Coates]

there is a nursery near our airfield which says.... "Trespassers will be composted !". makes me laugh each time i drive past