fantastic plastics V pipe and rag and victor?

[Guest danda]

I was siting and thinking after reading many of the postings about modern ultralights V Grass roots and I remembered many of the statements I received when I decided to learn to fly.

 

Statements like: “you must have a death wish†or “ not those things with a wing and a lawn mower engine†even “those things don’t fly they just crash†and many more.

 

However when you show them a picture of a modern ultralight they are taken back at the fact that these no longer resemble pipe and rag with the mandatory victor up front rather it resembles in their minds more of what they perceive to be an aircraft something they would be happy to fly in.

 

I believe that there are many parallels with the thinking of those who so passionately hang on to the past to those who I work within the church who so passionately hang on to the past even unto its death.

 

If the publics perception of our sport is so negative why do so many wish to hang onto this negative image so passionately when the public would more readily embrace the modern face these fantastic plastics bring.

 

Surely our true objective should be to promote our sport in the most positive light posiable for the good of all in the sport not just fantastic plastics or the pipe and rag and victor?

 

Don

 

(removed the calandar event from this post - Ian)

 

 

[Ultralights]

I dont see the rag and tube aircraft in a negative light!

 

although i have never flown anything smaller than a Jabiru, im sure the

 

grassroots crowd have just as much fun if not more than i do! and yes

 

on many occasion i look up in awe of a thruster or smaller slower

 

aircraft and wonder just how much fun that would be..

 

dont forget, the negative image of these aircraft is totally and completly the result of the media and its sensationalisations.

 

 

[Ed Herring]

(modern ultralights V Grass roots)

 

Hi Don

 

This is a subject that i am passionate about. If you consider that the basics of aerodynamics and the rules of the sky under the KIS princible, are the same for all Pilot's and or Passengers alike regardless of what we fly and we alldeserve the same respect. We as individuals must ensure that what we are flying is airworthy and we have had proper training. We must also act responsibly to play our part incontinuing to grow the broader community's perception of our "sport". Don, i agree with you that our objective should be to promote ourselves and our aircraft in the most positive manner possible. But the aircraft type matters not...! Some pilots fly to a budget and some fly whatever they want to. The "fantastic plastics" are increasing the population rapidly and thats exciting. We will allways have the "grass roots" types and we must work at preserving them if we have to. Above all let's go flying and do it safely. Thanks for bringing this subject up because as i said i am passionate about it. I am also passionate about the KIS princible!

 

Best Regards Ed Herring

 

 

[Ed Herring]

Hi Rob

 

I partly agree with you about media sensationalism! However if we don't give them something to write about or take a photo of, in the first place they won't get it wrong!

 

Regards

 

Ed Ed Herring

 

 

[Guest micgrace]

Hi Ed

 

I'm one of those that love aircraft of all types (except unairworthy ones)

 

I must say I get more thrills of being in an open cockpit than in a cabin.

 

You can really "feel" what's going on, even though you travel much slower. And the view

 

Also a believer of KISS, less to fix or maintain.

 

Micgrace

 

 

[Guest danda]

My point was not that the grass aircraft should be forgotten or phased out, not at all, however on reading some of the postings on other subjects there seems to be elements that believe that the reverse should the case and I struggle with that philosophy.

 

It is my belief that this sport is big enough to embrace everyone regardless of what they fly however it matters not what we think of these aircraft my point was, what the public think of these aircraft.

 

And as far as the origins of the negativity, it matters not, the fact is that much of the public see ultralights negativity maybe there is a case for a media department within the RAA to ensure that the media are given the right infomation, having a son in the media I find that sometimes its better to give them the truth to begin with otherwise they tend to listen to others who have no idea thus the story gets twisted.

 

Ed I hope we never loose the basic of flying in our sport however to hang onto only the basic to the detriment of all, is a worry and that’s what I was reading into some other postings.

 

Having only been in ultralighting for a short time my experience was that I was attracted by a modern aircraft and stayed because of the friends I met in their Thrusters, Lightwings, drifters and Jabiru’s however living in Holbrook I have also been confronted by pettey politics that only serves to divide none of this related to the aircraft type.

 

In essence I love flying my Ultralight I enjoy the friends I have met through the sport however it concerned me that we must paint the most attractive picture of our sport as posiable to the general public and I don’t believe that this can be done by the portrayal of the of the rag and tube aircraft.

 

Don

 

 

[barandbrew]

Anyone got any thoughts what will happen to the RAA if and when bottom end GA aircraft are put on the registor as is being touted at the moment?

 

Its hard to believe the grass root aircraft will get much attention if 150's and Pipers become available.

 

John

 

 

[Galpin]

In answer to the above question I suggest you contact the RAAus personel who are dealing with this and ask them for comment. Maybe Chris K could comment.

 

Galpin

 

 

[Guest danda]

I wonder if the sport is not its own best leveller?

 

Much of the things we worry about have a habit of taking care of themselves.

 

Don

 

 

[Ed Herring]

( Anyone got any thoughts what will happen to the RAA if and when bottom end GA aircraft are put on the registor as is being touted at the moment? Its hard to believe the grass root aircraft will get much attention if 150's and Pipers become available)

 

Hi John

 

What ever happens we will deal with it. "grass root" aircraft WILL survive regardless of what happens just the same, but it is up to us!As recreational aviation enthusiasts, if we show respect and acknowledge all aviators and aircraft we will all continue to thrive and do our bit to ensure the survival of our grass root aircraft and pilots.

 

Regards

 

Ed

 

PS Dons post makes sense to me....Spot on Don! Ed Herring

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i've been watching this thread for a while and i am pleased to see some passonite views on the grass roots end. how long they will be around will be only as long as we can keep them airworthy. i don't see a surge in any new types for a few years yet until the fuel costs become a real problem. (By then i hope my Lazair will be battery powered).But i think that the time is coming were a few of the more known names will begin developement of the more classic single seat types.

 

As for the bad publicity i can say as one who has been long time involved with several aviation disiplines, is that, all sports cop their turn from time to time. After a bad experience on our drop zone we developed a 'damage control' system to prevent and delay the media from getting ANY information of the incident It is imperative that you miss the 6 o'clock news and morning papers.Obviously hard to do if the incident was very public. It had 3parts to it, 1 Delay and try to become yesterdays news, 2 make sure the public recieve the facts and only facts. 3 recovery mode ,get some positive publiity even if your clubwas not involved. media managers can be worth their weight in gold.

 

need any tips please ask. bad media is bad experience, i know.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest danda]

My reason for starting this discussion was not to put down the grass roots of flying but to try and find ways to promote this great sport to the general public as positively as posiable.

 

There will always incidents that’s a fact of life and major incidents I’m told are a police reportable matter so there is no way are you going to keep such a incident from the media these days however the information they receive at the beginning is crucial, there is nothing worse that a journalist left to draw there own conclusions, however facts carry their own power and its important to make sure that they receive the facts at the time of their first reporting which is why I asked is it time for the RAA to have its own media department.

 

Don

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Just a general observation. Myself and quite a few others at jacobs all fly Drifters together. when we have a general discussion about planes we like, we all seem to have a passion for some sort of a plastic fantastic. Mine at the moment is the Jab J230. A mate of mine is the Sonex.

 

However, there would not be one of us that would trade in Drifter flying in the areas where we fly (Straddie and Moreton). Although a plastic would be great you just can't beat the drifter or any other rag and tube for the experience.

 

If more planes come onto the register, great - it gives us more choice.

 

The two things that I feel passionate about should this happen are:

 

1)the aircraft should in all cases be airworthy (as you would expect).

 

2) governance of such things should not become the farce that is CASA.

 

Jan

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

hi Don what you say about the media being left to draw there own conclusions is absolutley right. there fore it is critical to have a set method for dealing with them. You are right that it istime that the RAAus have a media representive , it would also be good for all clubs to have a appointed member to act as such.(trained). A good place to start is with your local police.

 

Part of my duties when i was employed at a small but very active airport was handling a major incident from first response to clean up.

 

We had regular meetings with police, fire and ambos. I recommend that all clubs do the same with local authorities. They also taught managemnt and the six individual operators how to handle the press. The airport was shutdown basically. the fire guys taken to the hangers and shown all the different aircraft. drawings were made of each aircrafts fuel, oil, control/power cable layouts.the paramedics taught how to handle injured, walking or not, setting up triage ect. whether there is a need to go to such detail for a small club they do have all levels of 'disasters' covered.

 

I found it very educational and would recommend anyone to paticipate if they spend a lot of time on the airport.

 

regards ozzie

 

i

 

 

[Guest babs1aus]

Just thought Id have a rave like everyone else. Didnt know that the there was becomming such an us and them. Where do I go, composite pod Alloy subsstructure two stroke motor but a carbonfibre prop and a structually egineered design of impeccable pedigree but slow.

 

As for media liasons they are great if the accident happens in a location suitable for a spokesperson to aid however most happen where everyone knows before the Raaus.

 

We recently had an accident in our area and the first we heard about it was when the local estate agent rang to ask if it was us. Hed heard about it in the pub as a news flash.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

If it is off airport then usually the police or other will make the initial statement, made up of the straight facts . you have seen it on telly. maybe an eyewittness will state his story. but this is were a good media rep will draw the reporters to himself and away from emotional types. i do strongly recommend that all clubs schools and RAAusat least make themselves informed onhandling the press. If the clubs media rep/safety officerhas made themselves known to the services, they will contact you on the first report of incident,so you can be kept in the loop.

 

As for the "us and them'. As long as there is 'us' i will be happy, as for 'them', i see 'them' as another source of aircraft that i can get my hands on.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest danda]

Ozzie I think you are right it is important for all clubs to have someone trained in how to handle the media

 

However in doing this the RAA must start to put media procedure in place so that the media now who to contact in case on an incident because if they have a contact that will always be their port of call then the RAA media officer can redirect them to the revellent club official for the correct information.

 

Don

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Don, for the RAAusi think that in the event of an 'incident' the spoksperson would be either "techie' or ops mgr. a media rep for them would handle all the promoting side of things. The club media spokesperson however, would have to not only be familar on promoting his club at a local levelbut as he may be at or near the scene he would have to be trained in that side as well. It would be good if the RAAus looked into setting up guidelines for such. Another growing step for the sport. None the less, ifpart of a club set up i would still start with local emergency services.

 

must be a member out there who has done this before who could add a comment or two

 

ozzie

 

 

[Admin]

I would have thought that the State rep would need to step in and provide advice/assistance to the club/school/friends/relatives and represent the sport to the media:;)2:

 

 

[Guest danda]

Ian maybe that’s a good starting point for all the state reps to be trained to deal with the media however can they always be available when needed at the time of a mishap where a local club rep is on the spot which is vital? I think I agree with ozzie that each club needs a media officer who is trained in this area.

 

Don

 

 

[Admin]

In the case of an accident the State Rep SHOULD make themselves available firstly for the pilot, family and friends and then the media. There are a lot of pilots out there that are not members of clubs or have a circle of instant support in the case of an accident. Therefor I feel that the media should be directed to one of the State Reps.

 

- just my thoughts, but remember and I feel obligated to add, that I am a Victorian candidate for the upcoming Board Elections

 

 

[Guest babs1aus]

Well Im glad you all seem to feel that a media rep isa great Idea. I do believe that first priority is a passive role for freinds and family in an accident and really no comment should be made officialy until a full investigation is carried out. Even the most straight forward incident can have a different set of factors leading upto it rather than those percieved by secondary and tertiary witnesses. Heaven forbid If something ever happened to me Id rather know that there was some support for my family and that the information gathered would be there to help someone else avoid a similar incident. We all cringe when we see an accident in our sport on media. So we should it is a sound reminder thatincidents.News is usually only current in everybodies minds until the next days news. The main reason we hang on everyword is that it is close to home. Youll never see headlines like "Man over took Truck Safely" Or would be Thieves went on Holidays instead" Remember if you get to involved with media it can often end up running for days and not hours.

 

 

[Galpin]

Brett I hope you are not up at 4.18am every morning! That could get scary!

 

 

[Guest danda]

Brett what you say is right however there is no way you are going to keep the media from a news story so isn’t it much better for a trained person to supply the information in a factual yet sensitive way that will not add any more stress to the family, and you are right that family support should be the number one priority that’s where I believe that the state reps come in and the facts should be gathered and used as an education tool. When I say my son is in the media let me tell you he is well well beyond just a journalist and he will tell you that good stories don’t sell newspapers isn’t that an indictment on our society when we only want to hear the finest details of someone’s tragic injury or worse still their demise. One truth we must hang on to here is that it is the media that make the news we don’t and the better the information they have the more factual the story will be and in turn the less emotional impact it will on the family and friends.

 

Ian what you say is true however I love your emphasis on the word SHOULD, however to fulfil all the rolls you are suggesting would take quite a bit of training. I ask you this isn’t it more important for the state rep to be trained to be there for the Pilot and or family and let someone else who is trained handle the media as it would be very hard almost imposable for just one person to handle all the emotions and the prying somewhat incentive questions of some pimply faced journalist who’s only real interest in the person involved is to get their story done before deadline.

 

Don

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

A great example of positive media in Sydneys Sunday Telegraph 2/7. with a short article and photoon the history andclub atThe Oaks WELL DONE!

 

Ozzie