Ra Aus Agm

[Spin]

Been and gone - frankly there are many more enjoyable ways of spending 6 hours of my life, but with it being on my doorstep so to speak, I felt I should show my face this once.

 

General impressions:

 

- I don't think either side came out of it particularly well; the board looked a little under-prepared and were caught flat footed by a couple of questions, the "anti's" or government in exile as they seem to be styling themselves came across as overwhelmingly negative and dogmatic and I don't think they did their cause a great deal of good. More on this later....

 

- I'm not sure that we will ever get right to the bottom of what exactly was done by the supposed anti-christ duo, Tizzard and Runciman, in relation to the junior members and the Lismore inquest. That said, I gained the general impression that whilst the procedure may have left something to be desired, their actions were not the sinister conspiracy others have tried to paint them as.

 

- I would like to have heard more about the bogey man lurking in the undergrowth ie. the current legal case which has apparently exhausted our insurance cover (for this aspect only). I am familiar with the concept of sub judice and whilst it wouldn't have been right to discuss detail or merits, a broad factual outline of what is at issue would not come close to offending.

 

- Notwithstanding some of the horse$#!% being spouted elsewhere, there is no financial risk to ordinary members of an incorporated entity, such as RA Aus. I am constantly amazed at the "wisdom" of the bush lawyers, who are prepared to offer an opinion on just about any technical, legal subject off the cuff. Officers of the organisation are a different matter, but even there people would do well to educate themselves before spouting some of the drivel I heard.

 

- If the numbers of attendees are to be repeated, a more formal procedure for verifying voting rights would be a good idea.

 

- The host club, GCSFC did a sterling job of catering for what turned out to be a much bigger event than had been anticipated. I thought it was 150 plus, ie multiples of previous years.

 

So the amendments all got up; I was a little iffy on the change to the numbers required to call an extraordinary general meeting and had my suspicions about motivation confirmed, when an attempt was made to get a petition for yet another general meeting, at the close of the AGM. That makes for a minimum of 3 talkfests within a year, seeing as the Natfly meeting has also been agreed to! IMO if you want to run the organisation, get on board and do your bit within the constitution- the current fashion of coup d'etat and extra parliamentary politics sets my teeth on edge. Michael Coates probably described it best when he said he was embarrassed for the board, having had to sit through the attacks made on them.

 

Interesting times in the Confucian sense, but I see no reason to flap about in circles a la Henny Penny, screeching that the sky is about to fall in....

 

 

[Guest avi8tr]

Thanks Spin, a great wrap-up and certainly almost the opposite to what I've heard elsewhere.

 

I'd say it sounds like the only time I'll see the sky fall is when the new James Bond movie Skyfall is released in Australia n 22nd November.

 

This talk of 80% of the exec resigning sounds a tad silly really and a major over-reaction by a limited number of parties. I certainly hope that it gets no airtime.

 

If the CEO, President and any number of Board members are forced to resign, the reins will likely immediately go to CASA and potentially ground ALL RA-Aus aircraft in this country for the short and medium term future!

 

 

[metalman]

From what I can gather the CEO needs to get the boot, he seems to be a loose cannon , but sacking half the bloody board is madness. Apart from the problems of late there is still a lot of experienced guys on there that would be hard to replace.

 

Met

 

 

[turboplanner]

Things have settled down somewhat

 

 

[Guest BlackRod]

The AGM, the one I went to, was very well hosted by the GCSFC and probably the best attended AGM ever. The meeting was chaired well by Middo in difficult circumstances. It did take an inordinate amount of time but even then did not properly cover the agenda items.

 

Normally an AGM should run for no more than 45 minutes - that this one ran for so long shows what a parlous state our Association is in.

 

- I don't think either side came out of it particularly well; the board looked a little under-prepared and were caught flat footed by a couple of questions . . .

Under-prepared? For example, how did you like the Treasurer's report? The Constitution says we are supposed to be presented with a Financial Report within 30 days of the end of the Financial Year. That was 30 July 2012. Now Oct 2012 and we still haven't seen the complete audited financial statements. To go to an AGM, 12 weeks after the end of the Financial Year, without the audited financial statements would be considered by most reasonable people to be a significant failure. To read a few numbers out off a piece of paper with no analysis of the results compared with last year and no mention of the Budget picture for next year is a bit worse than under-prepared.

 

. . . I'm not sure that we will ever get right to the bottom of what exactly was done by the supposed anti-christ duo, Tizzard and Runciman, in relation to the junior members . . .

Surely it is fairly simple. The Board passed a resolution that said the Junior Flyers were not to be grounded and Tizzard grounded them in spite of the Board Resolution. Can anyone imagine how long the CEO of any company would last if they defied a Board Resolution and did the opposite of what the Board directed?

Runciman's "crime" was to excuse Tizzard's action as a miscommunication. This is illogical and I've told Mr Runciman that - several times - and he has told me as many times he was right. However, the simple fact is that neither Runciman, nor Tizzard out-rank the Board. Neither of them on their own nor together can act contrary to a Board resolution. Any CEO or Chairman (President) who does not get that - and these two do not - would be out the door so fast they'd wonder what just happened.

 

That said, I gained the general impression that whilst the procedure may have left something to be desired, their actions were not the sinister conspiracy others have tried to paint them as.

Nobody said it was a sinister conspiracy - it was just straight up defiance of a Board Resolution that caused many Junior Members and their parents to have a miserable Christmas because Tizzard, of his own volition, acting contrary to a Board Direction, grounded them on the day before Christmas Eve. Is that a good thing Spin?

 

I would like to have heard more about the bogey man lurking in the undergrowth ie. the current legal case which has apparently exhausted our insurance cover (for this aspect only). I am familiar with the concept of sub judice and whilst it wouldn't have been right to discuss detail or merits, a broad factual outline of what is at issue would not come close to offending.

The "sub judice" claim was a total cop-out. There is plenty that could have been said but the preference is to tell the members nothing. This is not a situation you should just sit back and wear. Ask your Board Reps for a report on the matter and see how far you get.

 

Notwithstanding some of the horse$#!% being spouted elsewhere, there is no financial risk to ordinary members of an incorporated entity, such as RA Aus. . . .

It is true that members can not be asked to contribute another cent to RA-Aus because of limited liability. However, it is possible for RA-Aus to lose up to about $2.5 million of members funds and have to shut the doors. What would happen then is anybody's guess. Presumably, a new Association would have to be formed and members wishing to join would have to kick in at least the equivalent of a year's subscription to get the new Association up and running. Personally, I think it extremely unlikely that RA-Aus will go belly up but, if it does, my guess is it will be because of mismanagement leading to litigation and big payouts to lawyers and their clients.

 

The host club, GCSFC did a sterling job of catering for what turned out to be a much bigger event than had been anticipated. I thought it was 150 plus, ie multiples of previous years.

Top job by Paul Brooks and the Club! And the attendance showed just how important it is to move the AGM out of Canberra. Imagine if it were held at NATFLY?

 

. . . I was a little iffy on the change to the numbers required to call an extraordinary general meeting and had my suspicions about motivation confirmed, when an attempt was made to get a petition for yet another general meeting, at the close of the AGM.[/Quote]The Agenda for the AGM is very restrictive and defined precisely in the Constitution. Currently, RA-Aus has zero General Meetings each year. Most Aero Clubs have a General Meeting every month! In this way the Board has avoided any participation by the members in how RA-Aus is operated other than by the Board Members facing a vote once every two years.

Large Companies like BHP and Telstra with millions of shareholders can have a General Meeting requisitioned by just 100 shareholders as this is required by Corporations Law. Before this amendment was passed, for RA-Aus we would have needed at least 650 members to sign a petition for a GM before the Board had to convene a GM. Now it will take 100 the same as for the big corporations. Getting 100 of the notoriously inert RA-Aus members to sign a petition is no small task.

 

There will be a requisition for another GM but it will be requested to be held at the same time as the RA-Aus Board meets in February 2013. This way, RA-Aus will not be put to the expense of flying in and accommodating 13 Board Members as they were going to be in Canberra then anyway.

 

That makes for a minimum of 3 talkfests within a year, seeing as the Natfly meeting has also been agreed to!

While there was a fair bit of talk at the AGM, I feel it a bit off-handed to call it a talkfest. Four important changes to the Constitution were made and there would have been more if the Constitution review Committee had not been terminated because the Board "felt" there should have been a Board Member on the Committee but couldn't get any of the current Board to join.

 

IMO if you want to run the organisation, get on board and do your bit within the constitution- the current fashion of coup d'etat and extra parliamentary politics sets my teeth on edge. Michael Coates probably described it best when he said he was embarrassed for the board, having had to sit through the attacks made on them.

Tried that and got nowhere. It is dangerous to be on a Board with a group of people in whom you have lost confidence - you can lose your house that way. Everything we have done and are planning to do are the democratic process in action. All is being done within the Constitution. Half the problem with some on the Board is that they see all questions as criticism and all criticisms as treason. An organisation that can not handle criticism is one destined for the scrap heap.

Personally, I found Michael Coates's defence of the Board a little ingenuous. My impression has been that there is no love lost between MC and this Board. Of course this is just my perception I can't speak for Michael or the Board.

 

Interesting times in the Confucian sense, but I see no reason to flap about in circles a la Henny Penny, screeching that the sky is about to fall in....

I can attest to the fact that the sky is not falling. RA-Aus is fixable and a few of us who are prepared to put in the time and effort and expense (it cost me $750 to attend the AGM) to fix it would appreciate a more considered view than has been expressed here Spin. I doubt there is a single member who feels well informed by the Board as to what is going on whether tit is the lawsuits, Junior Flyers, LSA groundings, Staff advice to Coroners or whatever. That has to change. The Board has to remember that they are there to serve the members and the Executive is not the Boss of the Board but the servant of the Board and the the Staff are subservient to the Board's direction.

 

If anyone wants to discuss this matter offline, feel free to give me a ring.

 

Don Ramsay

 

[Guest Michael Coates]

quote from above..... Personally, I found Michael Coates's defence of the Board a little ingenuous. My impression has been that there is no love lost between MC and this Board. Of course this is just my perception I can't speak for Michael or the Board.

 

You are correct, the RAA and myself have had some moments BUT i thought the attack on some of the employees was making some people on the floor feel good because they were venting their frustrations but it really did become a personal attack that was relentless for approximately 20 minutes and really did remind me of schoolyard bullying.

 

Nobody regardless of their competence needs to have that sort of aggression at an annual general meeting (in my opinion).

 

I said it before and I will say it again, I genuinely felt embarrassed that some of the RAA employees had to sit through this attack.

 

I do admit however the RAA have problems, Blind Freddy could see this.... but the way to move forward with these problems is not to victimise and alienate the exact people who are the ones who can possibly fix these problems.

 

My attendance at the meeting was purely to sit there and listen and see how everything worked but my emotions took over and I was required to come to the defence of some of the employees of the Association. Everybody makes mistakes, some people make more mistakes than others, perhaps they are not the right people for the job at this time, I don't want to get into this debate because I don't know enough about it but one thing I am very confident and sure about is that we need the association to be there next Monday so we can enjoy our flying on the weekend.

 

In my opinion we were heading very dangerously down a road of no return with the potential to upset the daily operations of the Association by having votes of no confidence in the executive and the board, getting the administrators appointed etc etc not something I want to see happen. The system at the moment is broken, let's get it fixed and move on but the importance of all of this correspondence is that we want to make sure the association is still there to represent members, register aircraft etc etc for the foreseeable future.

 

I don't know if many were aware but there was media taking notes at the back of the meeting room so don't be surprised to see reports published if they haven't been already.

 

Finally, I know a little bit more about the aircraft registration problems than the average person and can confirm that the RAA are working towards getting everything sorted out but when required paperwork does not exist or has been made up/fabricated it becomes very difficult for the current technical manager. Really, it needs to be simplified for the membership, if a car gets imported into Australia and it does not meet the Australian design rules then it cannot be registered and driven on the road. Exactly the same has happened to these aircraft, they have arrived without the proper paperwork, they have arrived with the wrong paperwork the approvals and registration process has been overseen by one person with an assistant, could you imagine having to register and approve 5000 aircraft every year. To put this into true perspective.... 200 working days in the year, 5000 aircraft means that they need to do 25 aircraft registrations on an average day, add to this all of the other pressures and distractions of the job and you can see really how the system has failed....... on a perfect day excluding your lunch break you have about 20 minutes for each aircraft to update the aircraft file, update the hours, check that there are no airworthiness directives required that may have not been complied with etc etc etc.

 

 

[Spin]

Blackrod I'm not going to plough through the verbiage and return the compliment of cherry picking comments to make my point.

 

What I do wish to say is that I don't like underhand behaviour and found your manoeuvring to change the constitution and immediately attempt to call another general meeting, distasteful. Yes RA Aus needs to improve and further changes are required but forcing the board into siege mode and bailing them up with personal attacks is not the way to do it, it merely ties up their time and is more likely to entrench the status quo. Furthermore what came out of the meeting was that widely circulated claims about the insurance cover, misrepresented the true position. I would hope that this is a case of being poorly advised, as poorly advised as taking on a board position without carrying your own insurance cover for potential liabilities. Frankly words fail me!

 

 

[nomadpete]

Seems that there no recent posts here. Has the discontent surrounding RAAus executive and board resolved itself? The General Meeting is coming up soon.

 

 

[Guest Michael Coates]

No.... its still battle stations between the parties ! Stay low or you might get hit.

 

 

[Guest David C]

The battle lines are getting closer and closer and the flak flies even thicker ! ... Michaels advise to " stay low" is very good indeed

 

Dave C

 

 

[winsor68]

Ironically EVERYTHING some members feared, and tried to warn about and fix before it got out of hand, has happened. The silence here is deafening. What a bloody mess!

 

 

[Guest David C]

Yes you are right there winsor68 , it is in a hell of a mess .. I don't think there are many RAAus members on this site , so that probably explains the lack of comment on the subject . I quite like that , there is always the option of catching up with the discontent elsewhere .. I don't own a recreational aircraft , so the registration fiasco hasn't involved me , however , if it had , I dare say my opinions and motives would be very different . I do hope however that following the meeting in Canberra some positive directions may be in order . We will wait and see ..

 

Dave C

 

 

[nomadpete]

From what I have heard quite a number of RAAus members have tried to get information updates from the offices of RAAus that would reassure the members - but without success. That silence is deafening !

 

The biggest trouble is that because the Board fails to properly inform the members, it simply encourages people to fill the void with gossip and rumour. I really have no idea what the board is doing to resotre order, if anything. They just down't tell us. There seems to be some paranoid fear of telling the truth. Alternatively the truth may be too incriminating......

 

If the board could pluck up the courage to lay out before us the facts (the true facts, not the sanitised ones) surrounding the numerous issues that have caused all the concern, the GM would probably be a boring non-event.

 

We do appreciate that the board are volunteers, but they still have obligations and duties to fulfill. Our biggest fear is that the board themselves don't have a grip on the size and implications of the problems. The absence of frank information, combined with what appears to be incompetence, people are getting extremely concerned. The consequences of that unanswered concern may be an over-reaction by worried members, which has the potential to do more damage to RAAus than has already been done by the board and executive.

 

PeterT