Assembly Starts On First Aust Jsf

[Sammy]

WORKERS at the Lockheed Martin plant in Texas have begun assembling Australia's first new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

 

Defence Materiel Organisation chief executive Warren King said major components of the first Australian aircraft were now being joined to form the aircraft's structure.

 

"Known as AU-1, Australia's first F-35 will now make its way down the assembly line and roll out of the factory for delivery to the RAAF in the summer of 2014," he said in a statement on Friday.

 

The assembly of AU-1 at the plant at Forth Worth started with delivery of the centre fuselage section from the Northrop Grumman plant in Palmdale California late last month.

 

JSF is an advanced stealth combat aircraft set to be the principal combat aircraft for the US, Australia and other nations out to mid-century.

 

Australia is looking to buy up to 100 at a cost of $16 billion.

 

But so far the government has committed to buying just two.

 

JSF has been repeatedly criticised for running late, costing too much and unlikely to deliver all the promised advanced capability.

 

One of JSF's technical problems related to the development of the very advanced pilot helmet, designed to display all aircraft information on the inside of the pilot visor rather than on cockpit instruments.

 

To reduce the development risk, a program to develop an alternative helmet was launched in 2011 but now the F-35 Joint Program Office in the Pentagon has decided that's no longer necessary.

 

Lockheed Martin F-35 general manager Lorraine Martin said the decision to proceed exclusively with the first helmet indicated confidence that technical problems could be resolved.

 

 

[nong]

Lets get CAC going again and get them to knock up something like the AVRO ARROW.

 

Big, fast, long legged, a big radar, payload to sing about and a bit more "in their face" rather than compromised for "stealth".

 

 

[bexrbetter]

What a joke. Making very rich people richer with money straight from our pockets and making no difference to Australia's defense capabilities relative to other far cheaper strategies.

 

Not just the purchase price either, the running costs per hour are horrendous, in the order of $25K per hour.

 

And we buried our F111s

 

 

[kgwilson]

These F35s could very well be the biggest white elephant ever. They are too late, too heavy, too expensive to buy and to run, don't perform as expected and have been overtaken by pilotless technology. In the near future there will be no requirement for any fighter or bomber to have humans on board at all. The X47-B is a US Navy Stealth Drone that has been around for a couple of years and the Navy released a video of it taking off & landing on a carrier 18 months ago.

 

Check this out.

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

John Howard, on a trip to the US, suddenly announced we would buy this lemon. Once again, politicians ignored our Air Force's well-developed protocol for choosing new aircraft.

 

Howard's decisions as PM may end up costing us far more than his Labor successors.

 

 

[Sloper]

Wernt the same aguments made when were purchased the F111 back in the 70's?

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[nong]

Wernt the same aguments made when were purchased the F111 back in the 70's?regards Bruce

At least the F-111 concept was good....as since proven. At the time, there were the usual arguments about cost and a problem with the structure that took time to sort out. Pretty standard, really.

The JSF is entirely different. The concept is wrong, so no amount of fixing can make it work.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Wernt the same aguments made when were purchased the F111 back in the 70's?regards Bruce

Yes but now that we havehad them .... they were quite capable for our needs including slower speeds for better handling of smaller drug running craft. We can't take on any big guys, I have no idea why we need the top line fighters when there's a few choices of more suitable craft ..

 

The Textron is just one example of a few, $3000 per hour to use, many off the shelf Cessna business jet parts used and low cost purchase (relative) of $20 million so we can purchase 8 of these and also have 8 of them flying for the same price as one F35, seems a no brainer to me.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

 

 

[nong]

Yes but now that we havehad them .... they were quite capable for our needs including slower speeds for better handling of smaller drug running craft. We can't take on any big guys, I have no idea why we need the top line fighters when there's a few choices of more suitable craft ..The Textron is just one example of a few, $3000 per hour to use, many off the shelf Cessna business jet parts used and low cost purchase (relative) of $20 million so we can purchase 8 of these and also have 8 of them flying for the same price as one F35, seems a no brainer to me.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

My comments here are predicated on the aim being INDEPENDENT continental and close regional defence.....not silly adventurism with the United States.

I think a fleet of small, tough, adaptable and nimble workhorse jets would be invaluable as a defence asset.

 

These could be designed and built here, using capital subscribed by, in the majority, Australians, to a long term supply and support contract with the Federal Government. If manned, the pilots could, potentially, be part timers.

 

If the project delivered a useful capability for the money spent, consideration could then be given to having a go at a big fast, long legged and high flying weapon hauler. There are lots of aircraft to copy..,er, draw inspiration from. F-111, TSR2, SU-34 and 35 and T-50, Avro Arrow.

 

It is beyond me why we continue to stir the Russians. Maybe they would be pleased to offer a deal on some truly superior aircraft, with possible local production.

 

Australia is defendable. It does take organisation and forethought.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Australia's leaders adopt a policy independent of our Big Ally? Sir Humphrey Appleby would describe this as "a brave decision". His reaction to Prime Minister Jim Hacker's defence proposals: (Instead of "Trident", read "F-35")

 

http://www.bikcha.com/tube/ESIJ_C9mUBI/yes-prime-minister-nuclear-deterrent-scrapping-trident

 

 

[nong]

Australia's leaders adopt a policy independent of our Big Ally? Sir Humphrey Appleby would describe this as "a brave decision". His reaction to Prime Minister Jim Hacker's defence proposals: (Instead of "Trident", read "F-35")http://www.bikcha.com/tube/ESIJ_C9mUBI/yes-prime-minister-nuclear-deterrent-scrapping-trident

Most entertaining.

You mentioned our big "ally".

 

Questions: If Japan attacked/threatened invasion of Australia, who, if any, would USA side with?

 

If Indonesia attacked/threatened invasion of Australia, who, if any, would USA side with?

 

Answer: Hard to say.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Australia has always suffered from several hang ups and fear of invasion has been a biggie. The "Russian threat" led to Sydney spending up large on Fort Dennison and the cannons at Millers Point. The Yellow Peril became fear of a Japanese invasion, then it was the Red Menace. Foreign weapon-makers have done well out of our paranoia.

 

We've allowed large and powerful countries to buy much of our country, presumably so they'll put a protective arm around us.

 

Tiny Sweden, with a fraction of our population has managed to stay out of costly alliances and has developed into an industrial powerhouse, building their own ships, submarines and planes. Meanwhile Australia closes down it's manufacturing, becomes a quarry for clever countries and imports the most expensive weapons.

 

 

[nong]

Australia has always suffered from several hang ups and fear of invasion has been a biggie. The "Russian threat" led to Sydney spending up large on Fort Dennison and the cannons at Millers Point. The Yellow Peril became fear of a Japanese invasion, then it was the Red Menace. Foreign weapon-makers have done well out of our paranoia.We've allowed large and powerful countries to buy much of our country, presumably so they'll put a protective arm around us.

 

Tiny Sweden, with a fraction of our population has managed to stay out of costly alliances and has developed into an industrial powerhouse, building their own ships, submarines and planes. Meanwhile Australia closes down it's manufacturing, becomes a quarry for clever countries and imports the most expensive weapons.

Good post.

However, fear of invasion is not just a hang up. It is legitimate fear of the possible, and over a very long tern, the probable.

 

So far, it has happened twice in 226 years.

 

I say we should accept the cost of being prepared.

 

Sweden should be our inspiration.

 

Sadly, our political leadership don't think seriously about defence and national maturity.

 

 

[Ultralights]

remember the early F18's were reported as being Lemons, the US Navy should have bought F16's etc etc... the F18 has since proven to be a far better aircraft and the F16 a 1 trick pony.

 

 

[kgwilson]

At a cost of 12 billion for 58 of them that's around 206.9 million each. That's a lot of dosh.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

At a cost of 12 billion for 58 of them that's around 206.9 million each. That's a lot of dosh.

Please include as per buying the large asset blonde, once purchased very high and costly ongoing maintenance.

 

Vans RV6s are used in at least one country for their air force (Nigeria apparently), extreme thinking sure, but not such a stupid idea when you can put 100 of them into the sky for the same price as one F35.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Please include as per buying the large asset blonde, once purchased very high and costly ongoing maintenance.Vans RV6s are used in at least one country for their air force (Nigeria apparently), extreme thinking sure, but not such a stupid idea when you can put 100 of them into the sky for the same price as one F35.

Interesting. Argentina developed a turbo-prop ground attack aircraft which was used in the Faulklands war. It showed promise but was outclassed.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_IA_58_Pucara

 

 

[dazza 38]

There is a lot that happens behinds the scenes than a simple weapons system purchase

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

There is a lot that happens behinds the scenes than a simple weapons system purchase

...investment in the people who will install, maintain and operate the weapon system is at least as important as the weapon itself. Their morale and commitment to task is as important as the on-paper capabilities of the system.

(My brother took me thru his team's workplace in the early 1980s. Ten at night and Dire Straits was booming thru the hangar as techies crawled thru F111s installing thick bundles of white wiring. Those blokes should have built our subs...)

 

 

[dazza 38]

...investment in the people who will install, maintain and operate the weapon system is at least as important as the weapon itself. Their morale and commitment to task is as important as the on-paper capabilities of the system.(My brother took me thru his team's workplace in the early 1980s. Ten at night and Dire Straits was booming thru the hangar as techies crawled thru F111s installing thick bundles of white wiring. Those blokes should have built our subs...)

Yup, a aircraft weapon system purchase is calculated over 20 plus years and the local content in the manufacturing of F35 components seems to be have been left behind in this thread.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Yup, a aircraft weapon system purchase is calculated over 20 plus years and the local content in the manufacturing of F35 components seems to be have been left behind in this thread.

Is there a local component? Is any part of the aircraft being made in Australia? In the past components of Boeings have been manufactured by Hawker-de Havilland at Bankstown. That sort of "local content" sweetener has been negotiated in past purchases. As the most expensive purchase in our history, the F-35 should be no exception.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Is there a local component? Is any part of the aircraft being made in Australia? In the past components of Boeings have been manufactured by Hawker-de Havilland at Bankstown. That sort of "local content" sweetener has been negotiated in past purchases. As the most expensive purchase in our history, the F-35 should be no exception.

Yes some components are made in Australia

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

The company I use to work for BAE Systems Australia builds titanium tail components for JSF and I believe there is another company in Melb that is building components for it as well. Doesn't sound hitech or significant but machining titanium isn't something so simple........

 

i'd be very cautious of assuming any costings disclosed are only capital upfront costs... Defence has long moved to a TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) model. There is no value in understanding the upfront costs if the cost to keep it flying for 20 years ( plus the inevitable 10 - 20 years growth in expected life) are multiples of the upfront costs that have to be budgeted for somewhere...

 

Andy

 

 

[dazza 38]

The company I use to work for BAE Systems Australia builds titanium tail components for JSF and I believe there is another company in Melb that is building components for it as well. Doesn't sound hitech or significant but machining titanium isn't something so simple........i'd be very cautious of assuming any costings disclosed are only capital upfront costs... Defence has long moved to a TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) model. There is no value in understanding the upfront costs if the cost to keep it flying for 20 years ( plus the inevitable 10 - 20 years growth in expected life) are multiples of the upfront costs that have to be budgeted for somewhere...

 

Andy

Marand engineering in Victoria make the vertical stabiliser, engine removal and installation trolleys as well as 800 special tools. Quickstep and BAE also are apart of the manufacture of the vertical stab. There are approx 17 Australian companies that have won contracts thus far. A few of them are in partnership with each other as well.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The fact that there are a lot of local companies contributing to the total cost and that is a very good thing, it still does not justify the decision being made by politicians rather than defence personnel nor the fact that the aircraft is too expensive, too heavy, is plagued with problems and so far has failed to perform to expectations. Add to that the move towards UAVs where the pilots sit safely tucked up in their bunkers playing star wars for real.

 

I predict that within 10 years there will be hardly any manned front line fighters among the top level air forces around the world. Many of the successes against Al Queda & IS over the past 3 or 4 years have been made by US drones with pilots based in the Pentagon.