Guest ozzie Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hope they have an engineering order for that go pro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4i2MV-_IO4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26tNAW58ZXU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yup, in Lithuania they're streets ahead of the rest of the world as far as pilot training from early age is concerned. It's my opinion that the predicted future shortage of airline pilots will largely be filled by them in the near future, and perhaps by Chinese and Indians after that as they get their youth training into gear in due course. The western world's constant increases in so called 'safety' levels (aka nanny measures) pretty much guarantees that our youngsters will be put into an ever increasing competitive disadvantage. Notice that the kids don't even need a helmet because they are tightly strapped in and the gliders are designed to be safe enough even in a rollover. What isn't shown is that they can all fly a 3 axis sim before they even get started in the gliders, so they have a good idea of how to go about it all before they start and their first runs are just on the ground to get rudder sorted and then tiny hops, increasing to what the video shows. Also, all flights are filmed from wingtip, ahead and behind and then viewed and critiqued in the classes afterwards. What better training can you imagine? Here's an interesting website published by one of the Lithuanian lads who learnt in these terrific little primary glider trainers. As you'll see he was bored with them years younger than our kids are even allowed to fly at all, but the seeds were sown and his determination to continue flying set him on a journey whereby he owned his own full-blown sailplane by the time he could drive a car - and purchased it from half a continent away and brought it home. This used to be the kind of endeavour that wouldn't have surprised anyone if an Aussie did it but perhaps not so likely these days as the protectionist attitudes of parents and Government inexorably stifle young initiative. For those intrepid designer types among us who may be interested in the details of how those little LAK16 childrens gliders are put together here is a great link, just click on the individual lines and a larger pic of the components will pop up. Here is the official website of the childrens gliders governing body, best opened in Chrome so that you can use the Translate function. Some great pics, videos and info, they even have a National Competition with awards and scholarships for further aviation training and career advancement. They have eight major training centres in Lithuania and are fully FAI approved/recognised. I have an excellent Powerpoint presentation which shows the history and development of this program which goes back to 1954, how the gliders are built, their specs, and their plans for the future of the program and how it integrates into the world of General and Commercial Aviation. If anyone is interested PM me your email address and I'll email it to you because it's a largish file. In my opinion this is the sort of thing that should be thriving in Oz, but instead I've been told that from December 4th the minimum solo age for gliders has been increased by a year. I cannot fathom why it would make any sense to do that since to my knowledge there has never been an accident involving a young solo pilot, or near miss or anything, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that but as I've seen it the youngsters pay more attention to getting it perfect than most, so why on earth add a restriction when there hasn't been a problem as it is? 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Why let the kids have all the fun? I would give that a go... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Sorta makes one wonder what makes the power freaks such a total bunch of destructive fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 This is the best thing I have seen on the internet in ages. Excellent write up HITCs. Laurie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Totally agree HITC. In trying to make our kids' lives safe, most of the Western world has made childhood pretty bland. There are so few opportunities for real adventure; no wonder kids break out with drugs, booze, girls... (We were never like that). While I'm on my soap box, the biggest problem is that we have isolated our children from real world consequences. A couple of generations ago kids helped in the shop, on the farm or around the workshop. They got a good grounding in the value of work, and had a sense of achievement from making a contribution. How many today have ever been allowed into their parents' workplace to see where their pay cheque comes from? So many kids (most often the brightest) spend many frustrating years rebelling against a stupid education system, until all at once we release them from bondage, give them money and let them drive and drink. What a clever country. Some American states allow kids to drive several years before they are allowed to drink. Worth studying. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongie Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Damn Straight. When I was young(er), I ate dirt, skinned my knee, learnt to be careful with belt sanders after it got caught in my shirt, etc. Fell from trees, learnt to shoot when I was 4, never shot anyone, and got kissed by the dog and as a result, my immune system kicked in, I learnt real world lessons, and it didnt kill me! Makes me feel and sound old, but... BRING BACK THE OLD DAYS! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 This is the reason I fought so hard to try and stop the power mongers from removing the junior membership from RAAus but instead change the constitution and promote it. We don't do enough to promote aviation to the younger set. It is funny that only last night I was attending a presentation at my children's school on the new laptop in schools policy and was sitting next to a physics teacher from another school. We got chatting about physics and found that he takes year 11 students up to Benalla for an aviation week where they get to go up in a 172, 3 at a time...basically a short TIF for the one in the right seat. I know some schools do this but naturally the RAAus route is not a part of it and the kids most often go away thinking that to get flying will cost them say $10,000 (PPL). The other thing is like the old driving vs drinking age argument. Do you raise the drinking age to 21 to get kids some driving experience for 3 years before the alcohol scene (Policing aside). Getting kids into aviation younger will create the scenes, the fellowships, the friendships, the interests etc all before they start to get into cars, girls, mortgages etc. This I am sure can only plant the seed for them to either make aviation a part of their cars, girls etc scene or bring them back to aviation at a much younger age instead of the historic 40+ age groups. The thing is, everyone wants to fly, but many just don't know it yet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 When I was young(er), I ate dirt...BRING BACK THE OLD DAYS! Why did I suddenly think of those four Yorkshiremen? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebutler Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 They apparently do something similar with gyrocopters at Wondai http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=124347&p=1344724&hilit=wondai#p1344724 Queenslanders must be a bit tougher than our southern cousins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 They apparently do something similar with gyrocopters at Wondai Yes, car towing of unpowered gyro gliders has been a successful method of two seat and single seat training in gyros for decades. There has been some interesting discussion of the towing aspect of gyros and also the Lithuanian childrens' gliders on another forum which resulted in a very interesting discovery about the regulations applying to that activity. In USA they can still fly FAR23 Pt 103 ultralights without registration or a licence, and training is not compulsory. That category of aircraft is very similar to our original issue of ANO 95.10 i.e. 115kg empty weight, 26kts stall speed (or about 12sqm wing area) and max 65mph level speed. The problem they always had was similar to what we had i.e. since training wasn't compulsory people kept crashing so they built some 'fat' ultralights with two seats for training. Eventually the FAA put a stop to that so they were back to having a cheap class of unrestricted aviation but without a cheap means of training for it. As a result there are a few folks over there very interested in the Lithuanian training method and the tow gyros recently got a mention - because while being towed, and if the towline is not deliberately released then the towed glider or gyro is categorised as a kite not an 'airplane'. Kite flying does have some regulations if the kite exceeds a certain size or weight but they are virtually unregulated below 150ft AGL unless very close to an airport, and flight up to 500ft AGL is acceptable as long as FAA has been given prior notice. Whether the kite is 'man-carrying' or not doesn't matter. The regulations for kites are probably quite similar here though I've not checked, so it could mean that unpowered towed planes like the Lithuanian gliders might be a practical way to set up cheap and relatively unregulated ab-initio training, even in Oz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulf Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 I'm very interested developing a prototype youth glider training program in the United States, similar to the one in Lithuania. My goal is to replicate this program throughout the United States under the auspices of the non-profit 501©(3) organization I have established. Do any of you know of someone who is involved in the Lithuanian program or would be interested in collaborating with me? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Gyro Copter Glider I had a TIF flight in the one that used to be at "Eastern Creek nsw" But when told of the "helicopter" training fees I ran for safety. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Totally agree HITC. In trying to make our kids' lives safe, most of the Western world has made childhood pretty bland. There are so few opportunities for real adventure; no wonder kids break out with drugs, booze, girls... (We were never like that).While I'm on my soap box, the biggest problem is that we have isolated our children from real world consequences. A couple of generations ago kids helped in the shop, on the farm or around the workshop. They got a good grounding in the value of work, and had a sense of achievement from making a contribution. How many today have ever been allowed into their parents' workplace to see where their pay cheque comes from? So many kids (most often the brightest) spend many frustrating years rebelling against a stupid education system, until all at once we release them from bondage, give them money and let them drive and drink. What a clever country. Some American states allow kids to drive several years before they are allowed to drink. Worth studying. Until about four years ago, the driving age in New Zealand was 15. The drinking age is 18. Many people in the rural district where I live learned to drive as soon as possible so that they could take themselves and (with a suitable endorsement) their sibling(s) to school. After becoming and being responsible drivers for some time, they then reach the drinking age. The OECD people thought that, with NZ having the lowest driving age in the bloc, they were a long way out of kilter. Also, since the turn of the century, many NZ insurance companies became owned by Australian insurance conglomerates such as IAG. They could not cope with 15 year olds driving cars and the pressure mounted on the government to "do something". They responded by upped the driving age to 16 even though there were no proper statistics to support the fact that generally cautious 15 year olds were causing a lot of crashes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 In other country's You can get Married at 14 years old\ start work at 14 /get a car driving license at 15. get thrown into the army at 18 and be dead before your out of your teens. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 You could do all those and also be denied the vote in most countries when I was a young bloke. I was in fact an ex regular soldier when I was still too young to vote in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 While I'm on my soap box, the biggest problem is that we have isolated our children from real world consequences. . I got a person close to me who is a professional student, always going from one University course to the next, now late 20's. This person has a major plan to start a line of health food bars that are specific to people who have just left the gym. After each Uni period and with the ensuring 2 to 3 months time gap, I suggest to the person, who has never worked a real day in their lives, to go get a job selling retail, be it a clothes shop, restaurant, whatever, to gain real world hands on experience of which can be applied to the business plan .. .. to be met with death stares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 ...when the next GFC hits (possibly on the scale of the 1930s) he'll probably join the angry mobs demanding their share of whatever we've built up the hard way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 They used to have a gyro towed behind a car at what was the Erskine Park strip near St Marys, Western Sydney many years ago, it was great fun. I even taught my son to drive my van there, but regretted it after overheating on the way home because the radiator was then full of grass seeds from the largely un-mowed strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Planedriver must be the same place, Had to drive through Eastern creek, on Wallgrove rd, (I think), quite a big turn-out the times I went there. Have a few photos somewhere. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueadventures Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Planedrivermust be the same place, Had to drive through Eastern creek, on Wallgrove rd, (I think), quite a big turn-out the times I went there. Have a few photos somewhere. spacesailor https://www.google.com.au/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DQkdpziC6kF0&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwje5_y9tcvRAhUFKJQKHfi_CugQtwIIMzAM&sig2=R00K286RV6G_JIjWINHYfg&usg=AFQjCNGl0RUijhkGbwjJKoNuhxBchSytWg The GOAT glider is similar but has skid, no wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Sure to be the same place, it was off Mamre Rd down the lane turn right through the often locked gate to the paddock where the r/c model club were, and the giro boys were further up the back. The old falcon would tow us over the top of the hill before the downhill run. There was a guy who built his Lightwing at home just off Pendle Way who used to fly in there occasionally. It was Water Dept land that sadly got re-developed into a housing estate, but I used to spend a lot of Sundays there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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