What would a LAME earn?

[Bubbleboy]

Hi all...im looking for some advice and information. Im 42 and thinking of a career change. I have often thought of becoming a LAME.

 

I realise I shouldnt be doing it for the money and I can assure you that is not why I am thinking of it but can some one please give me some advice as to what a LAME will earn when first starting out and as they progress through.

 

I am a Trade Certified Watchmaker so avionics would be a natural progression but airframe and engine is what floats my boat at the moment.

 

Probably an open ended question as depends on employer and experience but just looking for a guide.

 

Scotty

 

 

[old man emu]

Scotty,

 

If you are a watchmaker, then you should look into becoming and instrument fitter.

 

You could set up a business for a relatively small outlay, and at the moment instrument fitters are few and far between.

 

I know a fellow who has been running this sort of business for years from his home. He bills at about $120 per hour. He's getting on in years now, and could be worth asking if he wants to sell out.

 

Don't become an airframe/engines LAME. It will cost a lot to set up shop, after you have done your four years of apprentice time and sat all your licence exams.

 

OME

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Hi Mark....thats interesting. The thought of doing Avionics with all the computerised gear now days does nothing for me. When I did Watchmaking 27 years ago it was all steam driven stuff! I really love the thought of working on older style aircraft. Would love a gig at a place like Temora Aviation Museum. Computer systems although they have their place, dont really interest me.

 

Im not sure I would be looking at setting up my own workshop at this stage of life. Im looking for a change in to something I have a passion for to see me through to retirement.

 

Scotty

 

 

[old man emu]

He doesn't play with electricky stuff - all old time analogue.

 

OME

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Hmmmm I personally wouldn't want a bar of mechanical instrument fitting......I don't think it has long term potential.

 

Perhaps because my background is Radio/Radar every time in my aircraft a mechanical based instrument has failed I've replaced it with an electronic equivalent.

 

For example:-

 

1) Electric Horizon failed...as all mechanical ones do...within a short amount of hours....ditched it for an electronic one that has a laser ring gyro (no moving parts)

 

2) Altimeter...cheap junk from china (with the importance being the first words not the last).....replaced with an electronic altimeter that also has a VSI built in so I could then ditch the VSI and use if for 12ch EGT/CHT guage, also electronic. Additionally it has a mode 3/C altitude encoder so I can ditch the Ameriking big ass encoder that is double the size and weight and harks from the late 70's in terms of technology......

 

The one thing that an instrumento can do for me is the pitot/static suck and blow tests to ensure that the electronics mentioned above are accurate and good to go for another few years....

 

Andy

 

 

[cherk]

- all old time analogue.

OME

...............and even if not "fashionable".......they're here for a looooooooooong time to come .

 

 

[facthunter]

All Andy's thoughts are right about unreliability and service costs. I still wouldn't go rushing to "glass". Most of what I have jumped into has some aspect of it not working properly so has to be ignored as it's giving wrong information. This doesn't worry me as much as it might upset some. They all (glass panels) require sensors. I feel that you can stick to the simple layout in many cases, where you only have one gyro and that is the rate turn instrument with slip indicator. With an altimeter and airspeed you can fly on that. We are VFR anyhow, not a Lear jet . Nev

 

 

[MarcK]

Hi Scotty. I can't tell you what they earn but I looked at this when I was younger before I fell feet first into my current profession. I wanted to go avionics at the time. What I was told at the time is that you needed to do a 12 month course before your apprenticeship now I am not sure if this was so you where on a level playing field for one of the few positions available or a requirement of the trade . I think this was with aviation Australia at archerfield.

 

I would still like to work in avionics but at this hate of life I can't afford to be an apprentice again maybe one day I will have a go at it.

 

Marc

 

 

[DrZoos]

So many exams, so much study, so much responsibility and liability, so much paper work and so many regulations. Sounds like a potential passion killer. Choose wisely

 

 

[facthunter]

I know many LAME's and they are well trained and get bugger all working in aviation. The airlines treat them as disposable nothings and send work overseas at crazy rates that no one can equal. Planes are painted by people wearing no shoes or protective gear, and you have to put in a tender that is disclosed to competitors who get under it because they know what it is. When they leave the get better jobs elsewhere away from aviation. Everyone is bitter about the way they are treated. Good Australians being shafted.. Nev

 

 

[Hongie]

I've often wondered this aswell.

 

I have a mechanical background, did 6 years as a Light vehicle mechanic, and I'm now a 'fitter' in an underground coal mine. The only reason i would want to do it, is so I can work on my own aircraft! :)

 

 

[facthunter]

For a lot of work an approved workshop is needed too. Do you want the training(knowledge) or the "ticket"? Nev

 

 

[Blue Drifter]

I have been watching this thread since it started, trying to work out how or whether I should reply. I am a LAME (avionics) and I have worked in Military,GA, Airlines and Offshore. Getting the Licence isn't easy and it is expensive (you pay for the exam pass or fail). Under the new Part145 it is now a money making exercise for the few approved schools. Except in the RAAF, maintenance is seen as a wasted expense ( they don't fly the hours). Accountants (and some owners) can't understand how it can fly in, cost all this money and fly out afterwards. I have been asked (more than once) "Really - What did you do".

 

I have had the Engineering Manager of a large regional airline (guess) say to me "If I could get rid of avionics altogether - I would".

 

So unless you really have a passion for aviation, it is a long road (4yrs) with poor pay until you are licenced. Then you get to be responsible for multiple lives (one of the few jobs you can go to jail for making a mistake), work under some appalling conditions (heat, cold, noise, dust, oil, grease, solvents, outside,inside etc), work on aircraft that will be older than you are, trouble getting spares/test equip (they cost money) all to be told that the owner or company isn't going to pay for your overtime.

 

But Qantas don't mind. They are closing 747 maintenance, they didn't train anyone on the A380 so now they can justify sending maintenance overseas.

 

I now work in the Pilbara (FIFO) and when I am there I am one of the lower paid members of the community. And management are telling us that we earn too much. (and they have just pulled our allowances).

 

Unfortunately for me I enjoy what I do, otherwise I would be one of the "Rig Pigs" that we fly out to the platforms. (seen these guys earn 1500 a day)

 

 

[metalman]

No $$$ mentioned yet, I'm interested as well, but more heading down the timber, fabric and welding track, a dying art that may be worth having in a few years time,

 

Matty

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

In 1991 I was earning 5 grand a month as an AME. I was in partnership with one other, he was a FAA licensed. Rented a share of a licensed workshop and paid LAME to sign off our VH work. Hard long hours. Lots of paperwork. All fell apart due to recession and over regulation and FAC making rents so high as to be unaffordable at YBK not to mention insurance ect. In the end the whole workshop and 4 businesses just shut up and moved into other industries.

 

 

[facthunter]

Most management are from the accountancy side of things. They see maintenance and training as unnecessary expenses and most people as overpaid except themselves. ALL aviation workers are expected to do first grade work and you can go to Gaol. Your top management today would never go through a maintenance section and would have NO idea what processes are involved in any kind of repair process.. They have an AOG and want it back in the air ASAP. They think the Dreamliner will be virtually maintenance free and no forklift will ever run into one.. Nev

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Thanks Guys...a good range of responses with one worrying trend I guess. I know when folk work in the one industry for a long time they can and usually do become cynical about it. Not saying this is the case with anyone here but thats why I wanted to ask the question.

 

If I could work on aircraft for no pay, I would. I have a family to support so thats not an option. I love flying and love aircraft. Have slogged my guts out passing all my pilots exams through to ATPL. I know with hard work I could do it.

 

We have Aviskills here in Tamworth who provide training in conjunction with TAFE. Its right at my back door! I have a mate who works for Qantas as a LAME here and he said the money is with the Airlines...not GA. He does the DASH-8's so probably not a great concern with maintenance for those going off shore but anything is possible.

 

Its a tough one as I still have 25 odd years of work left if I last that long. It would be a shame to get to the end and regret I didnt do it but if the reality is that I would be wasting my time and money then I have to face that too.

 

Im very mechanically minded and know I would be good at it.......Scotty

 

 

[Hongie]

Bloody bean counters... See the same thing all the time... "why do we need maintenance days on the longwall/miner? We need it to CUT COAL!!! oh what its broken down again? you should do more maintenance!"

 

 

[facthunter]

I am sure you would love it Scotty. Trouble is all the people who get unceremoniously sacked all felt the same. The airlines even sacked apprentices in their LAST year so they didn't complete their training.. I couldn't believe it. Some didn't get over it and there were suicides. That was a while ago but what is happening now is shattering to many. They are not qualifications you get from a Kelloggs corn flakes pack, and they are highly responsible jobs doing critical work. I think people who actually make or fix things are regarded a PEASANTS by modern management, who really have NO IDEA because they don't bother to find out what is actually involved. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

One more element to factor into your deliberations Scotty:

 

location. If LAMEs in Melbourne have worries about job security, a small place like Tamworth is worse. When East- West closed their maintenance facility some LAMEs were out work for years.

 

 

[foxworker]

I had the very same idea years back, was roughly the same age, went along to Aviation Australia, cert IV aeroskills-structures, unfortunately no work. Came to the realization that sometimes just having passion to do something you love is not anywhere near enough, maybe many decades ago, but not these days. I also had to accept that even if I did find a job in the industry, I still had to work as a low paid apprentice for another 3 years which would of been financially disastrous for me. Reality is there are plenty of highly experienced AME's and LAME's out there looking for work in any case. Have a look through aviation employment agencies and you'll get a picture of what work is available AND the experience and skill level/licenses required of applicants. These days I build large Ally. boats, and that satisfies my desire to fabricate and build well engineered structures. As soon as I restore my 67 Valiant wagon I'll build myself a KR2-s, and get back into flying. My advice is to try and find something that comes close to satisfying your career change desire and get yourself a home based project that can satisfy your creative desires. I know so many people love to say "follow your dreams and it will happen", but seriously often it is just fanciful thinking.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

HI Scotty

 

being a boilermaker/welder for 47 years we were the low end of the pay scale,fitters,turners,toolmakers(a dying art) and all in the metal industries were paid poorly until about 10 years ago, my son who is 23 ,was my apprentice , since i retired(and now back fulltime as a works manager )my son works fifo and earns CLEAR each week $3500 .Aviation is in the doldrums, passion is great but does not put food on the table for our kids , early on in my 30s i worked a night shift as well as a day shift at times the pay was poor, as said earlier in the posts a LAME has a lot of responsibility and is not well paid, passion for flying is great ,you are building a plane , this may have be something that can fill the void until aviation picks up , some say follow your dreams , but this usually comes at a price ,build your plane and enjoy it then later on get into job that you want , i retired and at 65 started work again , plus building the Morgan has given me a new lease on life .

 

Cheers gareth

 

 

[metalman]

HI Scottybeing a boilermaker/welder for 47 years we were the low end of the pay scale,fitters,turners,toolmakers(a dying art) and all in the metal industries were paid poorly until about 10 years ago, my son who is 23 ,was my apprentice , since i retired(and now back fulltime as a works manager )my son works fifo and earns CLEAR each week $3500 .Aviation is in the doldrums, passion is great but does not put food on the table for our kids , early on in my 30s i worked a night shift as well as a day shift at times the pay was poor, as said earlier in the posts a LAME has a lot of responsibility and is not well paid, passion for flying is great ,you are building a plane , this may have be something that can fill the void until aviation picks up , some say follow your dreams , but this usually comes at a price ,build your plane and enjoy it then later on get into job that you want , i retired and at 65 started work again , plus building the Morgan has given me a new lease on life .

Cheers gareth

Very true words Gareth,,,I always believed that because of the lack of apprentices one day being able to join a couple of bits of metal together would be a good earner,,,just wish it had happened when I was in my twenties,,,still that sort of dosh wouldn't have done me any good as a kid

matty

 

 

[facthunter]

No-one fixes anything these days. When it stops it goes on the tip. Crafting skills have been dying out for 80 years but more so lately. I've often said that flying when you want to in the weather you want to, in your own plane takes some beating. Make enough money to afford your hobby is another way to get what you want. Nev

 

 

[B200MAN]

I'm a LAME and love my job. Yes we have some responsibility but you need to have confidence in your work. I'm a chief engineer in aeromed and I sleep fine every night. Yes it is hard work and the pay is low when you start out but it's all worth it in the end. If you find the right organisation to work for it can make all the difference in experience and pay.