Microlight engine failure at 300ft ....England

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes studying the photos on the link it looks like a four-stroke to me also...although I can't make out what type. They also mention a crankshaft failure in the article.......................Maj......

 

 

[M61A1]

Yes studying the photos on the link it looks like a four-stroke to me also...although I can't make out what type. They also mention a crankshaft failure in the article.......................Maj......

I have read of a few X-Airs in the UK having Verner or Jabiru engines. edit: Just found a UK forum which claims that the pilot has both a 582 and a Verner engined X-Air registered in his name.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Hard to really tell, could be a Verner, appears to have carbs hanging below each cylinder................Maj.......

 

 

[M61A1]

Hard to really tell, could be a Verner, appears to have carbs hanging below each cylinder................Maj.......

The carbs are on top of a Verner, exhaust comes out the bottom..... I have an SVS 1400 on my Drifter.

 

 

[M61A1]

Xair.....least he found a clear area and headed for it. Seems like he kept control of the aircraft....a little fast at the end though .......any landing you walk away from, and he did walk away !....................Maj.....

Add to that(according to another article), he only had about 30 hrs as a pilot. Explained that he dived to go under power lines that he knew he would get over, the hit a tractor rut breaking the nose gear.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Stupid nose gear.

 

 

[M61A1]

Hard to really tell, could be a Verner, appears to have carbs hanging below each cylinder................Maj.......

Yep...looking at the pics rather than the video, it's a Verner, a VM 133 MK, those are the pipes coming out the bottom, then they sweep up, the Verner rocker cover shape is quite clear in one of the pics. I must make a point of remembering that sound, just before it stops.

 

 

[facthunter]

A broken crankshaft can make a range of sounds depending on how what is left is supported. Some engines can deliver some power subsequently, but for most it's very little, for not long. It sounded like the engine was locking up so I assumed it was a two stroke, which tend to go that way more often, usually a roller bearing overheat and seizure or piston rings ending up in the exhaust port., so the engine jambs .. If the (any) engine starts to vibrate, particularly with any knocking noises, it's in trouble Nev

 

 

[Camel]

I have watched the video and without being too critical I don't understand why he didn't use a side slip instead of the dive to get to where he wanted. Did I miss something or do others see that could have been an option. but he walked away and that is a good result

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Only 30 hours.........Probabily hadn't got to side slips yet ?......................Maj.......

 

 

[facthunter]

On a draggy plane, the exaggerated dive is very effective at height loss provided the aim point is adjusted to allow the speed to bleed off appropriately prior to touchdown. If he was used to sideslipping he would probably have done it as it becomes almost instinctive once you are used to it. If it's anything like here in the UK maybe he hasn't been taught it YET ( or ever). I'm not saying some don't teach it, but you don't see a lot of evidence of it. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The powerlines may not have become visible to him until late in the approach to his selected field. That highlights the importance of being able to carry out a good sideslip when needed, and also to get rid of unneeded height at the last moment to ensure you put the aircraft where you need to.

 

The same can be achieved by diving or dropping the nose and 'aiming' at the spot, but this also guarantees you an unwanted increase in airspeed, which appears to have happened in this case.

 

A sideslip gives you a similar steep approach, but you can adjust the airspeed in the slip by raising the nose without fear of stalling, and then arrive with the correct speed for the flare.............................Maj.....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Further on reliability of two-strokes......a friend of mine had just purchased a 582 powered early Lightwing. It was purchased new, and used exclusively on the sellers remote property, for mustering.

 

It has over 3000 hrs on it and is one the third engine. Apparently he did 1000hrs each on the previous engines before replacing them, and they were still running fine when he removed them from service, with only a decoke at around 500 hrs.....................Maj.....

 

 

[M61A1]

Only 30 hours.........Probabily hadn't got to side slips yet ?......................Maj.......

I took around 30 hrs to get my pilot cert (over about 5 yrs), I was introduced to sideslipping around the 6-8 hr mark as part of flying circuits. I was quite surprised when, during a BFR with another instructor, I was bit high, and began a sideslip, he asked what the hell was I doing. Previously I had been taught that a glide approach with a slipping turn on base to final through to around 50 ft, was perfectly acceptable

 

 

[M61A1]

A broken crankshaft can make a range of sounds depending on how what is left is supported. Some engines can deliver some power subsequently, but for most it's very little, for not long. It sounded like the engine was locking up so I assumed it was a two stroke, which tend to go that way more often, usually a roller bearing overheat and seizure or piston rings ending up in the exhaust port., so the engine jambs .. If the (any) engine starts to vibrate, particularly with any knocking noises, it's in trouble Nev

It is my understanding that certain varieties of the Verner, occasionally broke in the middle ( unsupported centre ), with one end driving the prop, and the other driving the mags and alt, it won't go far once it happens in any case.

 

 

[JG3]

I would just point out that a dive is a really good safe way to lose altitude in a very draggy aircraft like an Xair. The drag goes up with the square of the speed, and that speed is quickly lost in the flare. Much better than getting too slow and stalling from height. Almost all fatal ultralight crashes are from stalling and impacting steep nose down. Much better is a controlled landing, even if it is faster than need be. I think he did that exactly right for the situation......

 

JG

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Some instructors just don't see the point..their loss really, and their students'. I had 400 UL hours when I started GA lessons in a C152. In the 80s the single- ignition , pull- start 2strokes weren't too reliable , so we were taught to fly high circuits just in case, and also knew how to sideslip well. I still flew ULs on weekends while taking GA lessons.

 

Whilst doing circut one day in the C152 with my instructor he kept telling me I was ' too high ' on every approach. I go a bit tired of this as the landings were all fine, so next time he said it I put it into an aggressive side slip, knocked off 200 feet , straightened out and said 'how's that ?'.....He never again ever told me I was too high !!..............I overheard him telling another instructor after the lesson " he put it into a bloody side slip...I couldn't believe it !".......................Maj.......

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Sidelsipping is part of the recreational syllabus. If you have a certificate and haven't done it, or cant do it well, that includes in a turn, then your certificate was not issued IAW the ops manual.

 

 

[facthunter]

We had a big discussion of this a while back. I'm a sideslip person and always make smallish circuits no matter what I'm flying and if you get a bit high you wash a bit off, one way or another. (big circuits waste time).You need sideslipping skills in a crosswind situation so you would be missing out on something if not taught it.. If you do them right down to the flare you would want to be in good practice, unless you are slipping into a crosswind, where it is natural to land wheel down.

 

Motz, I would be interested to see a travelling rep from RAAus do a bit of a check on sideslipping skills and find out the facts. That might put the cat among the pigeons. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea nev. I cant get over hearing discussion on slipping as though its some sort of advanced manoeuvre, or some move that only the guns pull. Its not uncommon to have low time (pre solo) students tickling in some top rudder in glide approaches and standard approaches if they are getting high. I have to admit, in really draggy types like the bantam, lowering the nose is almost as good, the speed doesn't increase too much and is very quickly washed off with the flare. It still needs to be demonstrated and used, but to a lesser extent ( practically) then fast slippery types. There are a few aircraft that dont like to be slipped and if this is the case then the POH should state the limitations. From memory i think some low wings dont like it due to the tank pickups being un covered. But also there are some that aerodynamically dont like it. One of our 230's used to stall the tail in aggressive slips, where as the other 230 didnt. Go figure. Lead to some interesting moments as it required standard wing stalling procedures to get it out. Ie, relxing the back pressure AFTER the nose dipped..:) Ive never flown another Jab that had the same qualities.

 

 

[facthunter]

Your last three lines are concerning. The POH should contain lot's of information that is needed but the plane should not behave as the one you describe.. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Lol..As the saying goes...no S@#t...:)

 

 

[Yenn]

I had to do a re start without using the starter as part of my PPL training 45 years ago. Stop using mixture cut off, pull the nose up to stop the prop, then watch the sheep in the paddock below getting bigger. The prop flicks over slowly, stops, flicks again and then away it goes. Good fun.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

The prop flicks over slowly, stops, flicks again and then away it goes. .

Not with a Rotax 912 it doesnt. or a Jab for that matter (unless you get it to VNE)

 

 

[rankamateur]

Not with a Rotax 912 it doesnt. or a Jab for that matter (unless you get it to VNE)

But the sheep still get bigger!