What is an Icom A200 radio worth?

[kaz3g]

Hi folks

 

Just seeking some idea as to the current value of a second-hand A200 in good condition? Had one offered but don't know its worth at this point in time.

 

Thanks

 

Kaz

 

 

[David Isaac]

kaz,

 

I am looking at the new Icom A210 for my Auster and I think they are about $2,900, but a better radio by far than a Micro air ... so I am told.

 

 

[Camel]

$1299. And you may do better. That's new for A210

 

 

[Camel]

There got them at clear prop shop here $1275

 

http://www.clearprop.com.au/communications/radios-panel-mount.html

 

 

[planesmaker]

Kaz, I would think a 2nd hand a200 would be worth $600- $800. A good radio. Tom

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thanks for that Camel ol pal ... LOL, I don't know what I was watching when I typed $2,900, cause they are normally about $1,400.

 

That Clear prop price is a real good price.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Thank you.

 

I followed an eBay auction last night and a. Bendix-King KY97A went for US$610 with all the bits. I figure $A700 would be about right.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Mriya]

Just a tip to keep in mind when considering radio changes and costs.

 

I was talking to the icom service centre this week regarding a customers volume pot in an a210 that needed replacing and they keep track of all icom radios sold officially vs others that may be grey imports. When it comes time for workshop repairs the labour rates are much higher on radios which have not come through them.

 

I am not trying to necessarily argue against grey imports by mentioning this and I know people will have a range of opinions but it is worth noting that a 'cheap' radio may end up costing more in the long run once comparative repair costs are factored in.

 

In my customers case they confirmed the radio had been supplied by them and so replacement volume pot, ribbon cable+firmware update was all done for $120 including parts and labour while the customer waited. Radio was back at Coldstream all fixed with same day turn around. Not bad service from icom in my opinion and worth supporting the Australian supplier if they are committed to this level of customer service.

 

If you are buying 2nd hand it may be worth an email to icom with the serial # so you know what level of support icom Australia will give you when repairs are needed.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

interesting business approach.......I would guess the vast majority of radios come into Australia in the dash of a new or 2nd hand aircraft and not through the Australian importer....

 

Owners in that case had little to no ability to change that......but I guess forewarned you can take a different approach if it makes sense...perhaps the approach is we will get $500 profit per radio either at initial purchase or at service time.......

 

Andy

 

 

[Mriya]

interesting business approach.......I would guess the vast majority of radios come into Australia in the dash of a new or 2nd hand aircraft and not through the Australian importer....Owners in that case had little to no ability to change that......but I guess forewarned you can take a different approach if it makes sense...perhaps the approach is we will get $500 profit per radio either at initial purchase or at service time.......

 

Andy

I agree that there are a number of 'legitimate' ways that radios may enter Oz without the dealers involvement. I just thought I'd mention it so people are informed when purchasing what may appear to be a bargain.

 

 

[M61A1]

interesting business approach.......I would guess the vast majority of radios come into Australia in the dash of a new or 2nd hand aircraft and not through the Australian importer....Owners in that case had little to no ability to change that......but I guess forewarned you can take a different approach if it makes sense...perhaps the approach is we will get $500 profit per radio either at initial purchase or at service time.......

 

Andy

Yes agreed, with information like this, I wouldn't have bought myself an Icom, just on principle.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Interesting thread. . .

 

I have only used an Icom A200 a couple of times as a base station radio, and found it operationally OK, albeit somewhat more expensive than the older AM taxi rigs I used to convert and use in the early days until the suits decreed otherwise on pain of commercial execution. . . .. Never used any of the other superslick Icoms in an aircraft thus far, only the ubiquitous Icom IC-A20 / A22 hand held series which were the mainstay of most Microlight aircraft installations in the early times, held in place with duct or masking tape.. . . .we used to gauge the length of a flight by wheter the masking tape would survive three hours in the rain before the radio fell off the panel and disappeared down the hole where the trike nose wheel poked through. . . . this was a bit of a bugger, as it was attached by cables to your helmet headset and nearly broke your neck on landing if it dangled underneath and you ran over it . . . .

 

Having been a "Radio Amateur" operator since the late sixties though, I've used many different Icom products as playthings and although this does not really equate to any comparison with aeronautical specifications, the gear seems to be extremely well designed although sometimes a little" quirky" I mention this as I had a Icom HF rig which used to go " Clack - CLack - Clack - Clack" quite loudly as it automatically changed it's internal filters when you switched between HF frequency bands . . . .

 

There are now so many different brands of comms gear on the market for aircraft applications that it's a bit difficult to comment further on this as I have not used a lot of them. Here in the UK, you may know that we are complete bloody slaves to the sodding european union ( not worth uppercase lettering ) and they. . . have decreed that we shall very soon change our radio channel spacing from the current 25 KHz, down to 8.33 KHz spacings, meaning that everyone's radio will have to be chucked in the bin and we'll all have to go and buy nice shiny new ones.

 

Only problem I an see with this is the fact that I.C.A.O. only allow AM ( Amplitude Modulation) as a speech excitation system for aeronautical applications, ( this is mainly due to the physical properties of using FM - or Frequency Modulation, their argumant being that any FM transmision will completely "block out" or Blank a simultaneous WEAKER transmission from another station rendering it useless, whereas two or more A.M. transmissions made simultaneously will create a "squeal" or" heterodyne"

 

making any other station aware that there was another transmission in there. . . .

 

SO. . . . . . . . . . to get to the point I started at the top of the last paragraph,. . . . . Frequency Modulated transmissions can be made to fit into quite a narrow band on the frequency spectrum, thereby taking up a smaller space than an Amplitude Modulated signal. The AM signal contains a carrier wave, which is modulated on the same frequency, and this remains constant, BUT it also creates an Upper and a Lower residual which is known as a "Sideband". These "Sidebands" have been extremely useful in past years as they can be used singly, with the opposite sideband as well as the carrier wave blocked out, but you have to "Tune" in the voice transmission using a BFO ( don't ask) otherwise the voice can sound like Donald Duck,. . . . but pure SSB transmissions usually went three times further ( reliably) than a pure full blown AM one did. . . .)

 

It is quite difficult to compress this composite carrier wave and sideband signal too much without making the speech transmission difficult to understand, especially at long range, which is why ( In the UK ) Normal service Aeronautical speech transmissions are limited by regulation to no more than 25 NM from the station with which you are attempting to communicate. AM signals are very prone to atmospheric interference as spikes and distortions cannot be filtered out as easily as they can with FM systems.

 

( for those people who think this is gobbledegook, just think of AM / FM as VHS / Betamax. . .it really ISN'T worth explaining the difference here. )

 

Just to put things into perspective, you will probably be aware that all your favourite radio stations now use FM, and have done for many years probably,. so the aeronautical comms industrty is the only poor bugger to be stuck with AM ( commonly known in the trade as Ancient Modulation )

 

I am really looking forward to using one of the new generation AM 8.33 KHZ channel spaced units, . . . so far I have not seen one, as I'd really like to know if the filtering and compression is good enough to squash AM signals comfortably down from the current 25 KHz , down to 8.33. . . . . only time will tell, but the physics can only be fooled so far. . . I wonder how much co-channel "splatter" and receiver damping we are going to get when two stations close together start using an adjacent channel . . . . . . .I think the planners are really going to have to work on this one, and keep them well geographically spread. . . . . Hmmmmmm We shall see

 

( Apologies to all you NON -Radio nerds for this post )

 

And ( sung to the old Bing Crosby tune. . . .) HAVE YOURSELVES AAAAAAAhhh MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS. . . . . . . . .

 

Phil XX

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Me personally....I don't know why we persist with analogue radio systems. I would use a digital approach and things like the range limitation Id deal with by having sender lat/long included in the message and your radio could then work out if it was relevant to you or not and supress or otherwise.

 

If multiple Tx's occur at the same time I suspect digital would be much better at allowing multiple transmissions....Ethernet has been doing it forever....Radio itself could separate 2 simultaneous Tx's and play them back one after the other with a beep to advise people it was a delayed tx replay for the 2nd .....

 

Poor quality transmissions due to atmospherics should be a thing of the past and people should be able to hear their own transmission quality on their own radio via a store and playback option...if it sounds poor then best you fix headset/intercom/radio interfaces, if it sounds good then that is what it will sound like to the other end assuming good antenna's etc but they don't change much from outing to outing...

 

In the event of congestion from more than one other station, with lat/log/heading/alt/speed added to the digital package your radio could determine who is most likely to conflict due proximity/intersecting flight course and play that one with a different beep to let pilot know of congestion and importance of first Tx that is played back.....

 

All possible today but we are stuck with AM back in the 1930's from a technology perspective. The fact that you can use something like ozrunways in flight with 3G or 4G connectivity for internet means to me that all the above and more is more than possible.

 

If your radio Tx'd all the data elements from time to time even if no voice was required then low and behold you have ADSB as the yanks have on VHF rather than just the IFF frequencies....

 

Andy

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Andy. . . .

 

I couldn't agree more. Atmospherics are really irrelevant when you're using a digital system, as the electronics keep repeating until they achieve a checksum ( as I know you are aware ) and always manage to get through. Christ,. . .we had that facility with "Amtor" ( non digital but bloody useful and reliable ) on ham radio years ago. . . .geez, what's holding them up ? ? ? the delay would, in my view any way be minimal, and every thing could be recorded in the event of any arguments with regard to inadvertant airspace infringements due to poor comms,. . ., or other arguments appropos of any communication errors. We are, regrettably at the mercy of our political masters, and yu know how long it takes to make even the smallest leap forward in technology,. . . . . . . .maybe when we have an operational mining station on Mars, we might just get some commonsense tinking and restructuring of the terrestrial aeronautical comms . . .? Regrettably I think I'll be dust by then though. . . .

 

Phil. . . .Merry Christmas by the way.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Oh,. . . .

 

I forgot to apologise to Kaz for hijacking the thread,. . . .albeit unintentionally. . . .! ! ! !

 

Sorry Kaz. . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[David Isaac]

Your hijacks are always interesting Phil ... LOL