Slightly opening canopy in flight if co in cabin

[DrZoos]

I didnt want to hijack the other thread about co , but it prompted me to think about what i would do if i copped a heap of co in th cabin.. Clearly if i opened the canopy the whole way or even half way it might rip off and hit the tail plane, or drastically affect control surfaces.

 

But whats your thoughts about slightly opening it enough to get some air...

 

I havent checked the POH yet, but i assume it says no.

 

But if going to sleep or being badly intoxicated is the only option , im thinking opening my sliding canopy an inch might be the best option.....

 

I know this will open a pandoras box of opinion. But it would be interesting to hear peoples views. Is it something you have considered?

 

 

[facthunter]

Get the right information but you would be surprised how many aircraft can fly with canopy partially opened (or fully) particularly the sliding type. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

My canopy , just taxiing with it open two inches provides massive ventilation. So in an absolute do or die situation, would you open it two inches at say 60 kt

 

Im not asking advice, just what would you do?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Or...now understanding the risks that we face you could ensure that the daily inspection of the muffler systems was more than a cursory glance and everytime the cowls are off you have a good look for issues........

 

As you say you can think about a plan for what to do if....or you could think about a plan that makes the need for an alternate much less than it otherwise would be..... both need equal consideration, but if you can avoid the need for the plan B so much the better......

 

I noted on Fleabay that a handheld electronic CO tester could be had for $65AUD plus $11 postage..... I wouldn't begrudge that spread over 5 years....

 

I did note a heap of household units even cheaper but saw that the time to alarm for lower concentrations was almost an hour......think the handheld faster units might well be the go....but make sure it reacts faster before committing....

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Important topic, Doc. It has got me re-thinking my setup. I presume your canopy is not designed to open in flight. If so, a good designer would build-in vents large enough to cope with a wide variety of weather conditions. If not, maybe you can install larger vents yourself. Check the Spruce cattledog.

 

 

[metalman]

I'd get onto the manufacturer, some planes do okay with the canopy open, some have issues with the airflow over the tail, some guys I know did some testing with a tecnam golf, the canopy couldn't be held at 'just' open and then couldn't be shut again .

 

There was a story in the RAA mag a while back about a canopy coming open on a sportstar(I think ,could be wrong though) the plane was almost uncontrollable , got it on the ground but a scary event!

 

I also had a chat to a fella at Lilydale with a pioneer about your fuel pressure issue, he said he would contact you via the forum here, reckons he hasn't had any problems with his.

 

Matty

 

 

[Mark11]

Openable canopies are brilliant - searey for example

 

Why aren't more planes built with sliding canopies!

 

 

[facthunter]

Cheapness and weight. On some aircraft an unsecured canopy is extremely dangerous. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Thanks guys

 

Matty we have established most other pioneers dont have the fuel flow issue. Its related to the new pump which most dont have and its definitely heat related. So it will be interesting as they sell a few more new ones to see if they have the issue.

 

On the canopy opening issue , my canopy likes to close as the wind goes over it. I know it could be a different story in the air. But doing run ups if you have the canopy 4 inches open, when you go 4000rpm it closes the canopy.

 

 

[Ultralights]

The Tecnam P96 golf can be flown with canopy open, and i have done it quite a few times. according to the POH, speed below about 70kts, and canopy fully open. you do notice quite a bit of lift lost when its open, requiring a bit more power, and nose up trim to remain straight and level. we made up a cable to secure the canopy in the open position, just in case. all you were relying on is the stops in the track to stop it disappearing aft and into the tail. the cable made it easier to open and close as well. didnt want it racing back into the stops.. Had some lovely flights up the Victor 1 off the coast of Syd, with arm hanging out the side. great fun summers flying.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's great putting your arms outside the cockpit. You can turn a Tiger Moth using them. Nev

 

 

[winsor68]

I would be very wary unless I had certain hard copy clarification that it was safe to do so from the manufacturer. There are Ra aircraft that can be deadly without the canopy/doors fully latched... Texan and Sav come to mind.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I expect that the Texan canopy would fly off if the latches were bumped open. It would take off the tail. If by great good fortune it didn't, the plane would be uncontrollable anyway due to modified airflow over the tail control surfaces. A good reason not to carry ratbag passengers who wave their arms about.

 

 

[facthunter]

Higher airspeeds apply large forces to them... As stated, an unsecured canopy is truly dangerous in some aircraft. This is one matter you must have right. Nev

 

 

[DrZoos]

Found the answer i wanted......bet you cant guess where. thanks guys interesting to hear viewpoints. My original question was if its do or die would you open it a bit. Now i have a definite answer.

 

4.3.2.4 Cabin Fire

 

1

 

Master Switch

 

OFF

 

2

 

Vents/Cabin Air (*)

 

OPEN

 

3

 

Land as soon as possible to inspect for damage.

 

(*) It is safe to open the canopy in flight up to 100 mm ( 4”), and to hold it in this position manually. If released, the canopy will tend to close by aerodynamic force.

 

 

[Guernsey]

It's great putting your arms outside the cockpit. You can turn a Tiger Moth using them. Nev

My L4 Piper Cub had a side window which could be opened upwards and outwards, I used this often in the summer however, on one occasion I had a Tiger Moth fly up alongside of me so I tried to turn him away but my arms weren't long enough.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

People are dead right about consulting the Flight Manual. Don't crack the canopy in flight unless you have hard data that says it's OK. Once you're past that hurdle, on most sliding canopy aircraft, the canopy develops considerable lift, which tends to suck it to the fully forward position. The lift also tends to lift the canopy to the top of its tracks, and thus tends to lift any canopy seal off its seat. This causes a reduced pressure in the cockpit, which will drag in air through any leak, and with it, any CO that happens to be mixed in that air. So sliding canopy aircraft are often bad for CO; the T 18 is noted for this. Cracking the canopy an inch may actually drag even more CO inside, if it's coming in from an exhaust that is underneath the fuselage, via pop rivets or any other leakage points. You might be better off using your hand to scoop air onto you face via the clear-vision window. It's no bad idea to have a form of cabin ventilator that can be turned to act as a scoop, and positioned so it blows on the pilot's face.

 

 

[DrZoos]

It's no bad idea to have a form of cabin ventilator that can be turned to act as a scoop, and positioned so it blows on the pilot's face.

Very good idea. Im in the process of getting factory approval for adding vents. Not as easy as it should be. Got an email saying its ok but its pretty informal. So im chasing a properly written letter on letter head.