Which Cross Wind Technique

[David Isaac]

The Auster has barn doors instead of the dainty things you find on a Warrior and most RA aircraft and third stage has them hanging vertical in the breeze.

Final stage is a damn good air brake (drag generator) isn't it Kaz ...

 

 

[metalman]

So what would be a not so "stupid" thread dafydd, I've gotta say I'm pretty tired of the hundreds of whinging ,RAA bashing , evil CASA threads, I've also heard there's no such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers!

 

Matty

 

 

[facthunter]

I have to advocate the asking of just about anything. Everyone is entitled to ask and everyone is entitled to have a view, which it wouldn't be an unreasonable expectation to back up with further explanation (where needed) Personal insults are not productive or desired. Saying the thread is fairly stupid, is an opinion as valid as any other.

 

Whatever method you use don't let the wind get under the upwind wing, or land on the nosewheel. Practice your X wind landings till you have the level of control you are comfortable with. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I' d like to throw Daffy the duck in my Lightwing and just see how well he would do, with a bunch of video cameras set up. Well maybe not my Lightwing, maybe someone else's ............Talks cheap, but it takes money to buy Whisky !...............

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

I' d like to throw Daffy the duck in my Lightwing and just see how well he would do, with a bunch of video cameras set up. Well maybe not my Lightwing, maybe someone else's ............Talks cheap, but it takes money to buy Whisky !...............

I did the original flight testing of the lightwing when it was fitted with the Jabiru 2200. Next question?

 

 

[facthunter]

Boom Boom. All grist for the mill.. Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Yes ... good one .. I was waiting for that reply. All good entertainment ... ROFLMAO

 

 

[dutchroll]

Both.

 

Weekend fun - out of balance, into wind wing down, nose straight, touch down on into wind wheel.

 

Day job - in balance, crabbed, offset upwind from centreline, kick it straight (holding wings level) during the flare. Otherwise a) you could be risking a pod scrape, and b) the passengers all think they're going to die!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I've heard they've done studies to determined the colour of adrenaline ,,,,turns out it's brown!!!

Brown ? ? ? ? ? not if you had a really good Thai green curry the night before it isn't. . . . . . .

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Both.Weekend fun - out of balance, into wind wing down, nose straight, touch down on into wind wheel.

 

Day job - in balance, crabbed, offset upwind from centreline, kick it straight (holding wings level) during the flare. Otherwise a) you could be risking a pod scrape, and b) the passengers all think they're going to die!

Yes - though I must say, sitting at the holding point and watching a 737 or whatever, pointing straight at one just before the pilot kicked it straight, is an enlivening experience . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

I recall an approach when I was looking through the co-pilot window all final in heavy rain at night. You earn your money sometimes and the autoland (if fitted) won't handle those conditions either. The straightening up is a rather positive kick that most passengers would notice. Most landings I see today they don't bother to take the drift off. Though the Virgin NZ people seem to. (But they learn to fly in big winds). Nev

 

 

[dutchroll]

Most landings I see today they don't bother to take the drift off. Though the Virgin NZ people seem to. (But they learn to fly in big winds). Nev

"Technically" you're supposed to arrive at flare height, commence flaring, simultaneously start smoothly squeezing in the rudder to reduce the crab, feed in aileron as required to keep the wings level, and kiss the wheels gently on the runway as the flare culminates simultaneously with a zero crab angle on the runway centreline.

Yeah right - theory and reality are two different things!

 

The aircraft are certified to land at a fairly significant crab, though it's not comfortable. They will tend to straighten themselves after main gear touchdown but do require judicious assistance. Boeings can land essentially without reducing any of the crab, Airbuses can land with a minimal reduction (but they also have a higher crosswind limit - 40kts on a dry runway). They don't teach it that way however.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yeah I've heard that said dutch. It must be harder on the aeroplane though, and I've always been inclined to be easy on it if I can manage it. We had some Boeing engineers sitting in the jumpseat with strain gauges set up on the plane so they must have had some issues with damage at that time. Nev

 

 

[IanR]

In something like a Warrior I crab until I kick straight and then lower the windward wing a foot or so in order to alight on that wheel first if possible.In the Auster I generally sideslip a bit from a high turn onto final so the wing low just follows on. I tend not to use full flap (down elevator effect) on a gusty day because it is extra easy to lift a wing even at low speed like that in a 3 point attitude.

 

The Auster has barn doors instead of the dainty things you find on a Warrior and most RA aircraft and third stage has them hanging vertical in the breeze.

 

Kaz

On mine the third stage is placarded "Emergency" with first stage takeoff and second landing !

 

 

[facthunter]

Is that on the Auster? nev

 

 

[IanR]

Is that on the Auster? nev

Yes !! We laugh at it each time we use full flap !

 

 

[kaz3g]

On mine the third stage is placarded "Emergency" with first stage takeoff and second landing !

I wonder if that is because the 130 hp Lycoming won't give you a climb rate on a go-around with the third stage out?

 

Kaz

 

 

[David Isaac]

Interesting, my Auster J1B flaps are designated by the following four terms in the POH:

 

UP

 

Takeoff (first position on ratchet)

 

Landing (second position on ratchet)

 

Full (third position on ratchet)

 

Full is interesting and is used for short field approaches or approaches to clear obstacles. Approach speed is 40 knots with full flap, but the sink is high and you need a fair amount of power to arrest the sink rate on approach but it is a very effective short field method.

 

 

[Garfly]

Cross-wind landings are a staple on YouTube (competing with kittens ;-) probably because they look (especially through long lenses, head-on) so anomalous and perilous. (And, I guess, to avgas-heads rather beautiful).

 

Anyway, this airliner compilation is a good one.

 

You can really see that some pilots do and some don't bother with the kicking straight bit. And even when the engines are on the fuselage they don't seem to go in for the wing low method. I'm guessing because of dutchroll's explanation (b). That is, pax would prefer to sense themselves in a crab than a roll just before touchdown.

 

But back to our types, in particular, the Skyranger - as in Scott's original post - there's this interesting post by Paul Dewhurst on BMAA forum:

 

http://forums.bmaa.org/default.aspx?f=32&m=70043

 

I've posted this link before, here, but it might be worth another read in context.

 

 

[IanR]

I wonder if that is because the 130 hp Lycoming won't give you a climb rate on a go-around with the third stage out?Kaz

I have tried - and it does climb - but need to get rid of flap reasonably quickly. Full flap is certainly good for short fields

 

 

[djpacro]

Cross-wind landings are a staple on YouTube (competing with kittens ;-)

I never watch kitten videos.

[facthunter]

You don't sense being in a crab, but you will notice it when you kick it straight. You know when it hits the ground with crab on too, but much less when the runway is wet. Nev

 

 

[Garfly]

Djpacro said: "I never watch kitten videos."

 

What's not to like about this one:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U80dpU-rIN4

 

 

[David Isaac]

Cute little Kitten ... Love the sound of that two potter. Is the brand 'Global'? Never heard of it.

 

 

[DrZoos]

How to do it, or how not to?