Tell us about your last flight

[Blueadventures]

7 minutes ago, RFguy said:

The trouble starts skip of course when there is no wind and some are going off north, some going off south..... no dead side. I am very cautious in that case.
NEEDLESS TO SAY. I AM  NEVER, EVER GOING TO LET THIS NEARMISS HAPPEN TO ME AGAIN.  BY GADGETS OR WHATEVER 

 

Instructors would be doing less lookout at this time as also now watching students behaviour, control etc. Not saying Instructors are less safe in the circumstance; just they are extra busy than when normally flying the circuit.  Hope this sounds right.

[RFguy]

and - remember a high proportion of the instructors at bulk  flying schools are young kids getting hours. They're not 10,000-20,000 hour pilots. 

I'm beginning to think on how a pilot turns out,  much depends on how their instructor was taught- whether they had an older  instructor that taught an equal amount of airmanship, or a young , fairly green instructor (through no  fault of their own- they just didnt get the full bottle )  that just teaches the basics.  That's a generalization of course. There is good and poor across all ranks.

 

[facthunter]

It's up to the "THINKING" Pilot to advance his/her skill s and even to "just" maintain them. Humans are innately LAZY and will cut corners and not put in the effort required. A BARE certificate or licence is just that. SOMEWHERE to commence the next phase of you flying experience. Your initial training is structured and basic. AFTER that it's more up to you. Why was your last landing  a disaster? Probably because you were a bit stale and didn't apply the coordinated control inputs you should have. Career pilots have repeated refreshers s and checks all the time and get a lot more practice and don't get to pick good weather and daylight for their flying..Dead easy to think a circuit or two at the local airfield is enough. The landing is only one Part of the equation also. How was your planning and execution of your last   X country and how long ago was it?  Nev

[RFguy]

very good points Nev. 

I know that I can monitor / estimate my competency and  recency  and capacity by simply  noting my stress hormone level . It goes up significantly when I am away from my home field at another field.... and when stress hormones are up, checklists become more critical.

[skippydiesel]

18 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

We are so old!!!

And yet again , a another faux pa  (1990's)

[facthunter]

Stress is only good to a point. When you get (over)loaded  concentrate on the most important things and slow down and be more deliberate and careful. Have an exit strategy it possible. Workout what you have gong for you and what is threatening you.  Situational wareness. Panic if it's there won't be very helpful. Keep the Plane under control is your priority. IF you're busy you won't have time to panic. If you think "I can't DO this" you'll probably be right. TRAINING and preparation. A lot will wonder...... How will I go in those circumstances?  Well you can't be sure but it's better to have considered and prepared (as you are doing) to maximise/ improve your chances.  Nev

Edited July 1, 2023 by facthunter
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[skippydiesel]

16 hours ago, RFguy said:

The trouble starts skip of course when there is no wind and some are going off north, some going off south..... no dead side. I am very cautious in that case.
NEEDLESS TO SAY. I AM  NEVER, EVER GOING TO LET THIS NEARMISS HAPPEN TO ME AGAIN.  BY GADGETS OR WHATEVER 

 

That's when your earlier radio technique is hopefully in action - "listening out" - What is the active runway(s)? If its not obvious ,ask. Then when over the top, double check movements

[facthunter]

Faux PAS. (make not)  Skippy.

RF Guy RPT will often land with a down wind if it reduces time in the circuit and the runway aligns with the inbound track.  Nev

Edited July 1, 2023 by facthunter

[Garfly]

 

20 minutes ago, RFguy said:

I know that I can monitor / estimate my competency and  recency  and capacity by simply  noting my stress hormone level . It goes up significantly when I am away from my home field at another field.... and when stress hormones are up, checklists become more critical.

 

Yeah, I think that 'stress-hormone'  explanation is well illustrated is this video I've just seen of a bounced landing of a Citation in Oklahoma. 

The YT vid includes the pilot's own written narrative of what happened and he explains it in very similar terms. 

It also shows that it's not just us low-time pilots who face it; it's anyone who finds themselves suddenly outside their zone of feeling 'in control'. 

Once you slip into the 'yellow zone', as this pilot calls it, things tend towards red - because, after all, nothing fails like failure.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C5QqAhYL50

 

[facthunter]

I don't get the "Nothing fails like failure". bit. Can you assist?   Nev

[Garfly]

4 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I don't get the "Nothing fails like failure". bit. Can you assist?   Nev

 

Yes, I mean it as the obverse of 'nothing succeeds like success'.

 

You feel you're failing in something - which you might normally be able to easily correct - but the fog of failure disables your problem solving ability.

 

Just another way of saying 'panic sets in', I guess.

[facthunter]

REALLY PANIC and it's over. That's pretty obvious. I've seen a few "nervous on a Fine day types" and a few absolutely lose it. Fortunately it wasn't single pilot.  Some were even check Captains.  Nev

[RFguy]

I can just tell when I am not cool as a cucumber. Very distinctly. In varying amounts.  and nothing better shows that then going to an unfamiliar AD with a few planes in the mix.  First obvious thing, tighter grip on yoke/ stick than required. etc etc legs frozen a little  bit instead of dancing on the pedals . Breathing not smooth.  All really subtle tell-tales that this is not your home patch.  It's OK (unless you dont read you own signs) . 

On RPT- yes the Cessna Caravan courier plane that comes in daily, they just come and go in the direction they are travelling on their milk run. Parkes is same, terminal at south end, land to the south , take off heading north (no taxi).

[Mike Gearon]

On 29/6/2023 at 6:49 PM, RFguy said:

and avoiding  this was purely luck..... more arse than class.
been doing alot of different aerdromes lately. I've started to modify my inbound approach to a circuit if there is any traffic or activity  such that I am unlikely to encounter arriving and departing traffic on straight ins straight outs even 5 miles out... (regardless of altitude)  by coming over the dead side at 1500' and doing the steep sweeping descending 180 turn down to circuit height to  midfield cross wind, so I maximize my chances of seeing things, and see what's going on the taxiways and runway. 

 

In busy circuits, there are good reasons for quick position calls on all the segments - despite the radio traffic increase which is sometimes discouraged..  It doesnt have to be your life story.  quickly said Traffic Cowra Delta Romeo Foxrot  base three-three Cowra. Doesnt even really need to word "Turning" or life stories like " intends to do a T&G after eating lunch and calling my mum:".

Additionally, aircraft with one radio might go onto the AWIS from the CTAF and will miss radio calls. 

 

 

 

I’ve just read this. That’s way too close a call. At my local airport YTYA instructors/ students call base only. In your case they’d be making the call at about the time you guys almost traded paint. Depending how wide their downwind was.

 

I’ve asked instructors and apparently it’s intended to create a consistent call location. My opinion is that the call should be downwind if you’re only going to make a single call. I make mention of this when as inevitably happens I’m turning downwind directly at the just spotted silent radio/ no ADSB out aircraft.
 

 I’m also trying to time the base call from instructors/ students so a touch and go time from base call will give me their downwind turn. It’s an in exact science and even ADSB out would help. It all seems to be designed as stealth mode. I’m wondering if this is the standard for other airports/ flight schools.
 

 

[RFguy]

This was only 2 or 3 aircraft in circuit total .

I've been in circuit with 4 other student/instructor  PA28s without issue , (plus 2  x twin inbound !) , and everybody was making calls on every sector, no issue, everybody flying with the required position and awareness. It's tight , everyone is on their toes, but we all manage. This was likely at the end of the student intake where there is a bit of experience .   Often one plane decides it's too much and goes and does an orbit etc , as if someone does a full stop, that jams of the runway for the next close aircraft.....

This situation occurred with the students in their first few hours of flying experience, so while this is a specific situation, I think we need a generalized solution.  One of my circuits I went  a little wider and extended to downwind to get some spacing.

So, something will need to change in the procedures to satisfy me from this point onward .  Now, I could have slowed right down to give the aircraft in front that was seen to be wayward in their circuits for several circuits, but the 2nm separation should have been enough .  Their crosswind must have been extra deep and perhaps their upwind extended.  
Would a downwind call by the student aircraft have prevented this ? 

No, probably not if I was early downwind and they were late (wide) downwind.

Only a inflexion point call would have given position info- IE TURNING base, TURNING downwind.  That provides more info. 

But in this case if I had heard a TURNING BASE call, I wouldnt have seen them into the sky I was looking into .  I might have become a bit concerned when looking for them on base BUT you need to be flying your own aircraft also......  (I was looking for them late base when they came across my nose) So  think this comes back to flying accurate circuits . Circuits always will vary a bit but this was a case where all the aircraft are PA28s of some sort. Wasnt like there was a twin trainer doing  circuits amongst us, that usually messes things u a bit , but is rare. They are doing different training.  I'll also look at my legal obligations to make a report, and whether I see any benefit to others doing this, since I think this can be mitigated with better procedures. I'll be at the airfield tomorrow.  

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by RFguy

[facthunter]

The only really suitable place to  slow your arrival at the threshold is by  extending down wind.. IF you call turning base the plane will be more visible as the wings are banked. That fact has been mentioned several times over the years. Descending in the circuit ANYWHERE is risky. Final is where you HAVE to do it and you tracking is more precise and you are BUSY. IF you lose  SOMEONE it's a $#!T  moment and you're missing something IF it didn't worry you. IF you aren't happy HOW are you going to deal with it?.  How do you go around in the most safe manner? These are some of your prime considerations (IMHO).   Nev

Edited July 2, 2023 by facthunter
spelling

[skippydiesel]

On 01/07/2023 at 11:55 AM, facthunter said:

 

RF Guy RPT will often land with a down wind if it reduces time in the circuit and the runway aligns with the inbound track.  Nev

I don't see this as a problem - Cant claim loads of experience however have been inbound /over the top /down wind, when RPT inbound. On each occasion the RPT 's comm's  were excellent, with plenty of time for me to make an unhurried decision.  If I am not already on base/final, I  stay out of his/her way and let them know my position & short term intention (Remain location at altitude).  So far the PIC has been very appreciative.

[facthunter]

I didn't present it as a problem. It's a solution often applied. The bigger risk is descending onto other traffic or mixing it with other traffic on climb out when going around.    Nev

[RFguy]

Living with a flying school with 6+  planes airborne in the VC is busy. 1 RPT is not... But it wouldnt be any worse than Bankstown or Moorabbin. But maybe it is worse without tower OR defined approach/departure methods.  Maybe' its the most dangerous airspace in the country.

[facthunter]

IF it's disorganised and casual by even a few , the risks increase.. If we were serious we'd check the radio with someone before starting the engine. Radio used as it should and can be helps a lot. If you don't get a response from a call you don't know if you're getting out at all.  Your button sticking will be over anyone around iin range and on your frequency if you don't realise it. and turn the radio OFF/ unplug the MIC..  Nev

Edited July 2, 2023 by facthunter

[RFguy]

I put a report in. I was fair. identified possible causes and mitigation strategies...

[RossK]

The above has been good discussion.

The circuit or within 5 miles of the field have been where I've had all my close encounters.

I'm certain the Skyecho has saved us once.

 

Anywhooo, my last flight was a good one - first solo in the Archer this morning 😎 .

Currently doing the RPC to RPL conversion.

[RFguy]

Cowra  to Wagga  for lunch. Wagga is another place I have not flown to myself, have been with others. Managed to figure out the taxiways.  Locals very friendly. Lots of flying school activity in circuit, all had ADSB  enabled so I could both hear and see what was going on on the tablet. Lodged real flight plan on the way back complete with sarwatch.

 

Excellent Cafe at the terminal with broad operating hours. 5-17 weekdays, 5-1330 sat, 10-17 sunday.  access from GA parking , get in and out via Gate 3. 

good coffee and OK food.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by RFguy

[kiwiaviator]

5 hours ago, RFguy said:

Cowra  to Wagga  for lunch. Wagga is another place I have not flown to myself, have been with others. Managed to figure out the taxiways.  Locals very friendly. Lots of flying school activity in circuit, all had ADSB  enabled so I could both hear and see what was going on on the tablet. Lodged real flight plan on the way back complete with sarwatch.

 

Excellent Cafe at the terminal with broad operating hours. 5-17 weekdays, 5-1330 sat, 10-17 sunday.  access from GA parking , get in and out via Gate 3. 

good coffee and OK food.

 

Good to see you getting around in your Archer. I just got my Cherokee type rating in an Archer in the weekend. Good solid easy to fly machine with plenty of power.

[RFguy]

Great you are now PA28 familiar.   I have 29 hours on type, now.  They are the Commodore of the skies. easy to get parts for. not like Mooney's where there is a fight over rare 2nd hand parts ...

yeah a useful beast. with one up, 2 hours of fuel, sea level, 25 flaps and a WOT  before rolling, it will get off the ground very quickly.

After I sell the Jab I will look for a 19- .... Savannah or Nynja/ RANS/ Zenith etc.  maybe a sonex....