Tiger Moth Crashes into ocean off Sth.Stradbrook Island. Qld.

[Guest ozzie]

Also the salty environment it had been operating in for years.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Oz, not sure if a salty envioriment would have too much effect on what is mainly a wooded structure, with a bit of Chomoly thrown in, and SS bracing wires to hold it all at attention. Your average alum aircraft may have more drama................Maj....

 

 

[facthunter]

They didn't use exotic bolt materials. Salt is a bad environment ozzie. I hope we find the cause (as I said) Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

I'm pretty sure that moth care maintained their tiger moths. Moth care are probably the best experts in Australia in rebuilding tiger moths and maintaining them. We really need that go pro camera found.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Steel airframe, wooden wings. Lot of metal in a Tiger. Heaps of them at Luskintyre.

 

Dazza, they found the camera attached to the wreckage they dragged up this arvo. They did not say if the housing survived the dunking, they can't go very deep. Police spokesperson sounded confident tho. Lets see how i

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Steel airframe, wooden wings. Lot of metal in a Tiger. Heaps of them at Luskintyre.Dazza, they found the camera attached to the wreckage they dragged up this arvo. They did not say if the housing survived the dunking, they can't go very deep. Police spokesperson sounded confident tho. Lets see how i

Ozzie...I made a trip to Luskintyre last weekend. Tom who rebuilds the wings for the Moths and Stampe aircraft is my Spruce supplier. A bit off subject but got to look at his workshop. He does brilliant work building those wings. Was very inspiring!

Scotty

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I live nearby and am there a fair bit. Great group of people.

 

 

[Ultralights]

Fortunately those SD cards in the go pros are pretty sturdy, and one the info is recorded to them, it would quit easily survive a good dunking even if the camera itself does not. Forensic investigators are pretty good at retrieving data from submerged and destroyed cameras/computers/hard drives and CVR's

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Not to make light of the topic, but after the previous post the summary box for this thread on my iPad reads "Tiger moth crashes into ocean of...Ultralights". It gave me quite a scare.

 

 

[Windshear]

For all those who don't know, I work at Tiger Moth Joy Rides handling the phones, washing the aircraft and mowing the apron (with a push mower, don't laugh). I was not at work when the accident happened (I've been at RAAF Amberley the past 10 days). Please try not to make this thread go super public but if anyone has burning desires then feel free ask.

 

I'll address the GoPro SD card topic as I see it. We don't use the waterproof housings for our cameras. It's certain that the camera's raw housing and subsequently the SD card were exposed to salt water.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Sorry about your loss Windshear. We try to analyse things to prevent the same thing happening again, and so far these discussions have never been high profile, probably because they tend to be about the facts as best we can get them.

 

 

[Windshear]

Cheers.

 

Jim was just about the nicest guy you could ever meet. He had a fantastic personality, loved what he did, would always stop what he'd be in the middle of just to help me out with anything. He was just a terrific guy and had flying skills to match. And that's no sympathy story simply because he's gone, I legitimately can't think of one bad action to put to his name. First in to work, always the last out. I'm going to miss him.

 

 

[facthunter]

Nice compliments you have put out there. It's so sad. I am sure you WILL miss him. I've lost quite a few friends and it takes a bit out of you. Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ao-2013-226.aspx

 

Go pro footage showed in flight break up of left wing one minute after aero began.

 

 

[dazza 38]

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2013/aair/ao-2013-226.aspxGo pro footage showed in flight break up of left wing one minute after aero began.

Thank you Steve for posting. Go pro cameras and the like are helping us find out a lot quicker the causes of unfortunate accidents like this one.

 

 

[Windshear]

Some more food for thought.

 

 

GoPro #1; Typically set to take a high resolution photograph every 2 seconds from engine startup to shutdown. Mounted on the wing facing towards the aircraft.

 

GoPro #2; Typically set to record a 720p video from engine startup to shutdown. Mounted behind the windshield facing towards the two occupants and the rear of the aircraft.

 

GoPro #2's Field of View

 

 

 

[djpacro]

From memory, witness reports of an earlier Tiger accident reported wing failure but the ATSB report was vague as to the cause. Another one some years prior to that led to more stringent inspections and rework of wings.

 

We now know what happened but we don't know the cause.

 

 

[facthunter]

The rework was in the fabric (drain holes at the rear) was it not?. Some of them had ROT in the ribs Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

From memory, witness reports of an earlier Tiger accident reported wing failure but the ATSB report was vague as to the cause. Another one some years prior to that led to more stringent inspections and rework of wings.We now know what happened but we don't know the cause.

I agree David, I should have worded my post better. Camera's and videos show us what has happened but it doesn't show us what has caused it to happen

 

 

[Windshear]

TSG was a very well looked after aircraft. The only problem I can recall (if you could call it that) was that all the pilots I had talked to reported the aircraft had a tendency to naturally bank to the left and you (the pilot) would have to be correcting the aircraft throughout the duration of the flight. This is something apparently not present on our other tiger moth (VH-ASB).

 

EDIT: Would that be worthy of contacting the ATSB over? I still haven't received a knock on my door.

 

 

[djpacro]

Me too - I should've stated that the ATSB did not accept the witness statements of wing failure.

 

Also, no evidence was found to support the reported observations of the left or the right wings folding up or a part of the aircraft separating in flight.

at http://atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2002/aair/aair200200377.aspx

 

[facthunter]

Generally report anything if you are in doubt. From memory rigging these planes was a real skill. Plenty would have been a bit out and sometimes it would show up as a reduced cruise speed, but it could easily be a wing low that becomes more evident with speed variations. It would be remarkable if there wasn't any. A tendency to stall one wing first consistently might be an indication, but I have only experienced that on an Auster, never a DH 82/ nev

 

 

[Guest pookemon]

IIRC correctly there was a Tiger moth break up near Coffs a few years ago. I think it was put down to the ageing glue (the wing that didn't break up had been rebuilt due to a minor altercation with a runway light - so it had modern glues while the other didn't).

 

Edit: Not Coffs - Williamstown.

 

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2002/aair/aair200200377.aspx

 

 

[Windshear]

Don't quote me on this, this event occurred before my time. Sometime in the past 15 or so years the same aircraft stalled on landing and both wings were replaced and the fuse fully restored.

 

 

[djpacro]

IIRC correctly there was a Tiger moth break up near Coffs a few years ago.

Read the report - witnesses reported wing failure but the ATSB did not accept that

The investigation could not determine the reason for the pilot losing control of the aircraft. ..... no evidence was found to support the reported observations of the left or the right wings folding up or a part of the aircraft separating in flight.