Kinglake Vic - two in gyrocopter missing

[turboplanner]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/police-search-for-two-men-after-gyrocopter-ride-in-kinglake-20131222-2zskc.html

 

Very thick bush with very tall trees in this location.

 

 

[storchy neil]

by what I have herd not ending well neil

 

 

[skeptic36]

Pilot and pax found deceased this morning.

 

Condolences to their families.

 

A terrible time of year for such a disaster

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[alf jessup]

Condolences to the families & friends of the 2 persons involved in this terrible accident.

 

Very sad for the families around this time of the year not that Xmas makes much difference, a loss is a loss.

 

Thoughts with you all.

 

Please fly safe everyone.

 

Alf

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

A short bit of footage shot from above on this mornings seven news showed yellow remains that had gone though very tall timber. Looked like a very heavy impact.

 

Sad to see this a few days from Christmas. Timely reminder for the rest of us to play safe over the holidays.

 

 

[kaz3g]

The airstrip here is north-south in the head of a small valley. The country rises very rapidly into the Kinglake range and the strip is primarily one way in and one way out. This is the country the fires went through on Black Saturday. I spent more than 20 years of my life there.

 

It is predominantly box-stringybark but the deeper valleys and high tops are cool temperate rainforest with Mountain Ash on the highest peaks.

 

I expect there was quite a strong rotor effect on the southern edge due to the norther lies yesterday.

 

Very sad for two more aviation families this Christmas.

 

Kaz

 

 

[turboplanner]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/pilot-tourist-die-in-gyrocopter-ride-20131222-2zskc.html

 

Take a look at the bush right up to the airstrip. Looks like a zero engine failure strip to me, where no matter how careful you are, if you have an engine failure you have to hit big trees hard.

 

 

[Bandit12]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/pilot-tourist-die-in-gyrocopter-ride-20131222-2zskc.htmlTake a look at the bush right up to the airstrip. Looks like a zero engine failure strip to me, where no matter how careful you are, if you have an engine failure you have to hit big trees hard.

I've had a few "what the heck am I doing here" moments climbing out of strips surrounded by big trees. It makes you think twice about going to one.

 

 

[slb]

Devastating news. RIP my friend, you will be sadly missed by a lot of people.

 

 

[metalman]

Always sad to hear , but how about just this one doesn't degenerate into the norm, these are friends of friends and lets just leave it there for now ,,please

 

Condolences to the families!

 

Matty

 

 

[DrZoos]

Very sad and condolences to the family and friends.

 

We need to remember though 45 odd people will die on roads in the coming days and week. 50 odd people will drown. Thousands will die from sitting on the couch too much and thousands will die from smoking and alcohol. Many will die from work related stress. And those that dont work will die faster from socio economic causes.

 

Life is dangerous, not flying.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And most importantly let's not forget the innocent tourist who thought this would be an uneventful joyflight.

 

 

[Bluey]

Very sad and condolences to the family and friends.We need to remember though 45 odd people will die on roads in the coming days and week. 50 odd people will drown. Thousands will die from sitting on the couch too much and thousands will die from smoking and alcohol. Many will die from work related stress. And those that dont work will die faster from socio economic causes.

Life is dangerous, not flying.

My condolences to the family during this very sad time.

 

While flying may be safe when all is going well, it is not all that safe when things go wrong. Many variables can determine the outcome. The terrain below you plays a critical part as we all know.

 

It is also likely and quite reasonable to conclude that some types of aircraft are more difficult in an emergency than others. I wonder where gyros fit in here?

 

 

[maulonir]

My condolances to the famly and friends of the pilot and passenger.

 

To answer your question Bluey an engine out landing in a gyro should be a non event, loss of rudder control is also not an issue. Loose of control off the rotor though and you can quickly become a passenger. Gyro's can land on a 10cent piece and also at very low speeds however if you have to put down in thick scrub its always going to get messy.

 

Rob

 

 

[Bluey]

Thanks for the reply Rob. It does seem as though there have been quite a few accidents in gyros over the years where people have just been passengers. Is it just a case of home builds being over represented?

 

Bluey

 

 

[frank marriott]

Without knowing anything about the accident or the people involved so no inference intended. - I hope the investigation does not reveal paid joy flights. i.e. CHTR. Have seen joy flights being written up as TIFs locally but ,without an incident , the operator got away with it for a short period.

 

 

[maulonir]

Hello Blue,

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by the question 'is it just a case of home builts being over represented'

 

I can think of four accidents involving loss of rotor control through the detachment of the cyclic to the rotor head at some point along the control system. 3 of which were fatal. One was a home built, one was a kit built and two were factory built. There were differing reason for the loss of control which I won't go into.

 

Hopefully the investigation will uncover the reason for this accident.

 

 

[Bluey]

Hello Blue,I'm not really sure what you mean by the question 'is it just a case of home builts being over represented'

I can think of four accidents involving loss of rotor control through the detachment of the cyclic to the rotor head at some point along the control system. 3 of which were fatal. One was a home built, one was a kit built and two were factory built. There were differing reason for the loss of control which I won't go into.

 

Hopefully the investigation will uncover the reason for this accident.

The reason for the question is that is what I've been told by more than one gyro instructor very recently. They've implied that the poor safety record is related to non factory built gyros and the factory built are much safer.

 

I've recently made inquiries into the feasability of converting to gyros from trikes and have been wondering about the safety aspects. While every instructor I've spoken to has vouched for their safety, historical records seem to suggest that they can be quite a handful at times.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

This one looked like one of the current Italian types.

 

Very strong design and even has a temp sender to monitor the mast bearing.

 

They are also impressive with climb performance. Reliable 912 engine. Something out of the ordinary maybe?

 

 

[104chocks]

Hi

 

I *think* the gyro in question may have been a Auto-Gyro MT-03 G2347 - that's the type shown on the Yarra Valley Flightsports FB page

 

https://www.facebook.com/YarraValleyFlightsports

 

Auto-Gyro have delivered over 1050 examples of the MT-03/MTOsport series - ie it is not a homebuilt one off.

 

Steve

 

 

[maulonir]

Yes it was an MTO Sport, ASRA are assisting with the investigation.

 

With regard to Home built Vs Factory built, I cant say I agree with the generalisation that factory built are much safer than Home Built. The quality and finish of the new bath tub style machines that are on the market are excellent and it has opened up the world of Gyro's to people who shyed away from building their own machine. Statiscally I would guess there are more homebuilt gyro's out there at the moment than factory built so perhaps this would be represented in the accident stats. That is just my gut feel without looking at the figures.

 

The causes of accidents in gyros both factory or home built are varied and would not be too dissimmilar to those causes found in fixed wings accidents with the exception of wing stall of course.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes it was an MTO Sport, ASRA are assisting with the investigation.With regard to Home built Vs Factory built, I cant say I agree with the generalisation that factory built are much safer than Home Built. The quality and finish of the new bath tub style machines that are on the market are excellent and it has opened up the world of Gyro's to people who shyed away from building their own machine. Statiscally I would guess there are more homebuilt gyro's out there at the moment than factory built so perhaps this would be represented in the accident stats. That is just my gut feel without looking at the figures.

The causes of accidents in gyros both factory or home built are varied and would not be too dissimmilar to those causes found in fixed wings accidents with the exception of wing stall of course.

I am not a gyro expert by any stretch of the imagination.......however I have noticed over the years the frequency of accidents caused by control- rod disconnects, or failures to the rotor heads, popping up with accidents both fatal and otherwise. In this respect they do differ quite considerable to a fixed- wing aircraft....................Maj....

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

What's the chance of mounting a streamlined BRS atop the rotorhead, with cables running thru the hollow mast?

 

It might add enough reassurance for me to get in one.

 

 

[maulonir]

Hello Maj,

 

I have to agree with you and with respect, a plane doesnt have a rotor head so yes, there is that difference. My inference too the similarities between fixed and rotor wing accidents was the common theme of pilot error, poor maintenance, complacency etc.

 

Of the four control loss accidents I am thinking of, three would have been avoided if the faults were picked up in the pre flight.

 

Of these three incidents, two where directly linked to maintenance carried out prior to the flight and one was a design fault. The fourth remains unknown as the machine came down in a water way and was never recovered, the pilot swam away unharmed.

 

OldK,

 

They have done some BRS trials in the USA with jettisoning rotor heads/blades, not sure of the success though.

 

Rob

 

 

[Russ]

I am not a gyro expert by any stretch of the imagination.......however I have noticed over the years the frequency of accidents caused by control- rod disconnects, or failures to the rotor heads, popping up with accidents both fatal and otherwise. In this respect they do differ quite considerable to a fixed- wing aircraft....................Maj....

This I have to reply to......

 

" frequency of control rod disconnects" .......there was just the one, and that was absolutely pilot error, this pilot trailered his machine, and ensuring the rod locknuts were In place and torqued, he failed to do. This pilot was known to be wanting in his airmanship and general machine servicings.

 

( Ross, how you come to "frequency" ......please explain )

 

2nd matter....failure of rotorheads........a yr or 2 back a fatality was investigated, it was found that a bad component design / construction was the cause. It was a component that attaches to the rotorhead. This machine was a homebuild, and the defect was internal on the component, thereby unnoticeable to inspections.

 

3rd matter re rotor heads......this was an imported machine, that later after delivery

 

The owner retrofitted a component assy, that folks feel contributed to the machines demise, as this machine sunk into deep water it was never retreaved to definitely know the cause, but this above explanation is considered .......the cause.

 

99.9% of gyro incidents are pilot error! that,s a fact. Gyros are made to yank and bank, problem is some pilots get ahead of their own capabilities, as well as pushing the envelope in general flying. Mistreat a gyro, it will bite you hard.

 

Just recently.....yr ago, gyro pilot killed by own machine, he was standing alongside machine as he started it....problem was, it was set at near full throttle, it then chewed him up as it rocketed forward.

 

Anytime there is a serious incidence in Australia, the governing body sends investigators to determine the cause, and what could be done to ensure it never happens again........pilot error is the hard cause to overcome. The best of training sometimes get,s lost.....just like the case above here.

 

Hope this helps.....Russ