Two survive light plane crash

[Guest howard]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200512/s1537962.htm

 

Two people on board an ultra light plane that crashed into the water off a central Queensland beach have escaped without serious injury.

 

The Kitfox aircraft went down at Stockyard Point, north of Yeppoon, around 7:30am AEST.

 

Queensland police say the survivors have not been seriously hurt.

 

District Inspector Graham Coleman says the man and woman had been on a joy flight when the plane's engine failed.

 

"He's attempted to land on the beach but crashed into the water some distance from the beach," he said.

 

"The crash was observed by people camping in the Stockyard Point area.

 

"They've quickly raced to the crash location in dinghies and they've rescued both then pilot and his passenger."

 

 

[River]

A further update on this incident follows;

 

Monday, December 26, 2005. 5:37pm (AEDT)

 

Recovery attempt planned for crashed ultra-light.

 

Police on the central Queensland coast will attempt to recover an ultra-light plane that crashed into the water off a beach this morning.

 

A 53-year-old man had been taking his 46-year-old sister-in-law on a joy flight when his Kitfox aircraft's engine failed. The pilot failed to make an emergency landing on the beach at Stockyard Point, north of Yeppoon.

 

Rockhampton Police District Inspector, Graham Coleman, says campers in the area witnessed the crash and rescued the pair in dinghies. "He's attempted to land on the beach but crashed into the water some distance from the beach," he said. "It would appear that both the pilot and the female passenger have received minor injuries, just some possible back injuries and some harness bruising.

 

"They will be conveyed to hospital for observation and treatment and police will investigate the accident." The first man on the scene of the crash says he feared the worst, after seeing the splash it created when it hit the ocean. Brendan Clare, a nurse, says he was relieved to see the pair sitting on the plane's wings when he arrived. "They were pretty shaken up," he said. "It didn't hit the pilot until a little bit after, when he sat down and obviously then it started to hit him a bit. "But the other lady was pretty shaken up from the start."

 

Footnote: For members who don't know where Yeppoon (Stockyard Point)is, it's some 300 odd nm's north of Brisbane. Appears from photos I saw,the aircraft has been recovered and whilst there would most certainly by more damage than one could see, the aircraft looked to be in surprisingly good condition other then a broken prop and some damage to the engine cowling area...

 

 

[Admin]

Just curious given that the sand on a beach can be either soft or very hard and lumpy if one finds themself in a similiar situation is it really better to try and land on the sand or say in about waist deep of water by stalling a few feet high and pull the nose right up and just plonk yourself into the water. Would landing on the sand make you more prone for the wheels to simply dig in on landing and flip you over - as I said just curious?

 

Good to hear they made it with just bruises.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Saw it on the news, The plane did look in very good shape! (Shiny) :P

 

Glad to hear everyone got out ok ;).

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Personally, I would go for the sand any time! You would have to be very unfortunate to time your emergency exactly at high tide when all you have left if the fluffy stuff!

 

There is usually some form of strand at the water's edge that will be wet, compacted sand.

 

Land in the water and you are likely to lose your aircraft entirely - if not a good bath in sea water will have you doing anti-corrosion work for months.

 

I would not entertain taking a fixed u/c aircraft into the drink. Two reasons: It will nose in deep or turn over so drowning becomes a real consideration! Secondly I just KNOW Jaw's Dad will be waiting for me! The only way a shark will get me is if it comes out of a tap in the bathroom!

 

 

[River]

G'day Ian, yes, the same thought crossed my mind too but as we all know that when it dose happen, events usually happen very fast indeed, especially at low level... Here is the latest info as per the local newspaper plus a small photo of the situation...

 

The Morning Bulletin - Rockhampton QLD

 

Holidaymakers helped after seeing a light aircraft go down.

 

Two survive ocean crash 27.12.2005

 

YEPPOON pilot Graeme Toft didnt have time to think about dying as he crash-landed his small plane off the Capricorn Coast yesterday.

 

Last night the shaken 53-yearold said he and passenger Desma Van Rosendal were lucky to be alive after their light sports aircraft lost power at low altitude near Five Rocks Beach about 7.30am. "You just pinch yourself to prove you are alive, he said. Mr Toft, who has been flying for 13 years, said he was taking Ms Van Rosendal, who is his sister-in-law, for a scenic flight when the planes engine failed.

 

But he said he did not panic, instead taking his mind back to the crash landing training he had received.

 

"I tried to restart the engine but it wouldnt work so I chose to land the plane in the water because I thought it would be a softer landing, he said. "You cant afford to think you're going to die, you dont have a chance to think about anything ... your training just kicks in.

 

The plane landed in two metres of water and flipped over but both Mr Toft and Ms Van Rosendal were able to get out without assistance. Startled holidaymakers in the area 40km north of Yeppoon im- mediately raced into the surf to assist Mr Toft and Ms Van Rosendal as the shaken pair emerged from the damaged plane and attempted to salvage it.

 

The group managed to flip the plane and push it back to shore as more people arrived on scene. Later, the pair was airlifted by the RACQ-CQ Rescue helicopter to Rockhampton Hospital for treat-ment. Both suffered back and abdominal injuries and were released from Rockhampton Hospital yesterday afternoon after treatment and observation. Mr Toft thanked emergency services and the members of the public who had come to his aid. "Everyone was just great, I cant speak highly enough of them.

 

And he said it was likely he would fly again one day. "I'lll look at it down the track but I'll probably say I will.

 

 

 

[Guest carlsnilsson]

Or out of a glass, Tony!

 

 

[River]

G'day Tony, Ace reply... especially the second part. I know I'm treading on an area where 'angles fear to tread' as it's quite a different situation when it happens to oneself but...

 

As for opting to land in water when the beach is right next to you does beg the question.At first upon reading the incident I though the pilot may have been just too low to able to glide onto the beach. Then I though, maybe the pilot spent too much time attempting to re-start the engine and just ran out of height before realising he would not be able to make it onto the beach… But appears the pilot made a decision to conduct a water landing as indicated in the newspaper interview. Interesting decision. But as I said earlier, these events are always ‘different’ when it happens in real time and not sitting here at work behind my u-beaut operations desk. The good news is all were relitively unjuried...

 

Cheers

 

 

[pylon500]

I can assure you a plane will flip over in even one foot of water!

 

(I know!)

 

 

[Paul Willett]

Interesting feature in the latest CASA Air Saftey Magazine on ditching - in the deep stuff, vs. unfavourable land.

 

In a previous life I used to land aircraft regularly on the beach - but they were surf beaches with generally hard sand. Picking a suitable landing area with the luxury of a powered inspection run and approach can be tricky - what looks flat from 100 Ft can be enough to break the gear off - and these were heavier aircraft with higher prop clearances. So picking a suitable bit of beach from low level loss of power is going to contain a lot of luck. Generally the sand close to the water will be firmer on a surf beach, but not always the case. Wash outs are going to be hard to pick in a hurry as well. Estuarine or bay type beaches will tend to be softer nearer the waters edge and possibly boggy or muddy. On a surf beach the sand near the top of the beach is probably dry enough that you may end up sticking the nose gear in and nosing over.

 

Having said all that, I think most times I would go for the beach over a water landing. I hope I never have to find out.

 

 

[greggf]

I spend most of my flying time "coastal" in either my Drifter or the club's Foxbat. There is no doubt at all in my mind. In case of (irrecoverable) flame-out, set down on the sand just above water line.

 

From a bit of on-the-spot research I've found the sand in the 4 metres or so above water line to be firm enough to permit not only a safe landing, but safe takeoff, too, after the problem is solved. Note, research was done on my motorcycle, not by aircraft.

 

For comparison, try taking off from 2 metre deep water, even if you manage to stay upright on landing.

 

Beach every time, and remember you are touching down at around 40 kts (if you do it anywhere near right) so a bit of unevenness in the sand is not the end of the world.

 

Cheers

 

Gregg (and a Happy New Year to forum readers)

 

 

[River]

G’day Greg, whilst there are always ‘variations’ to the hard sand on a beach line I basically agree with you’re thoughts on a unscheduled beach landing.

 

Other mates would regularly conduct motorcycle drag racing on the hard sand areas just up from the waterline with little problems. Of course we’d check out the whole length on the strip we were going to use, but we were often obtaining speeds ofclose too 160 k/ph…

 

Yes – I know that it was reckless and life threatening but when are 18 yo we all know you’re indestructible. Mind you, this was on a beach that had a very large beach sand area and there are many areas were the beach sand area is very very small indeed. Go near or into the areas either side of that hard sand strip and you’re in serious trouble. Either way I'd still aim for the sand instead of the shallow waters on a surf line...

 

Cheers,

 

 

[barandbrew]

Re landing on the beach

 

Hi Guys

 

I fly over the area of the crash every weekend it is one of my favorite areas and I can assure you that all of the beachs in that area have good firm surfaces and only at high tide would you have a problem landing on the beach there. Too low too far out is my guess.

 

 

[Case]

G'day All,

 

We hear the news on Radio and TV and read it in the newspapers and without knowing the real details we can only assume that the reported details are accurate. This accident was again reported in today’s Sunday Mail (Brisbane) and it has a couple errors that make you wonder about anything you see or hear from the media. In the article they say the pilot had 30 years experience, yet in one of the post above he is quoted as having 13 years experience. In the same sentence in today's article they report that he ' put the landing gear down '. Even a cursory inspection of the accompanying photograph shows that it has fixed landing gear.

 

The article suggests that the reason for the accident was that the fuel cap was inadvertently left off and as a result the fuel tank was sucked dry. This may or may not have been the reason given other discrepancies in the article.

 

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is, where do we get the real info ?. GA accidents/incidents are investigated and reported on the ATSB website for everyone to read and learn from. But what about RAAus aircraft accidents. I haven't been able to find any factual info on these events anywhere. Am I not looking in the right places or are RAAus investigations not made public. To make flying in recreational aircraft as safe as possible we should be able to read the real facts and learn from the hardware failures or mistakes of others.

 

Regards

 

Case

 

 

[Admin]

Very good point Case.

 

Howard, is it possible to get details of investigations posted here or can you suggest someone I could contact to ask if this is possible?

 

 

[hiperlight]

See the AUF/RA-Aus website...chapter on "Airmanship and safety tour":para. 7. "Accident Reports": sub-para. "AUF/RA-Aus Accident Investigation Reports"

 

Hiperlight

 

 

[Case]

Thanks Bruce.

 

I had not seen this part of the RAAus site before. This is the type of info I would expect to see. The only problem is that the last reported accident was May 2003.

 

regards

 

Case

 

 

[Guest howard]

They should be published in the mag. rather than here.

 

Ther person to talk with would be the Tech Mgr.

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Sorry Howard – you are basically right but wrong in practice!

 

They are not reported in the magazine are they? Some are and it is only a very small amount.

 

Equally, it is NOT the Tech Manager’s job as Ops are involved as well. It is the Board/CEO’s job and it starts with policy and then making it happen! But I seriously doubt a ‘newstands magazine’ is the venue for how much is actually happening but never gets reported! Bad for the jolly image, what!

 

I personally have very little time for in-depth crap ‘coronial’ type reports that take up a few pages and are so out of date that dozens could have died in the meantime by the time you get them! They may have value and interest but it is very specific.

 

What any control movement needs is trends – and we do not have them. There has been NO effort, for bloody years, to make any sensible, quite normal, bulk reporting and identification of trends. About the best we get is some profound comment that “we are getting too many fatalities – time to do something about it chaps!â€Â

 

As the leader of TOSG I have heaps of info on incidents and accidents – some quite serious (like near write-offs). I have said this openly at Board meetings! I have tried to put in unofficial notifications that never went anywhere (probably not on the correct form, second hand etc). Nobody was bloody interested!

 

Why? Because it is Member Responsibility! If RAAus are not told in the correct manner then what can they possibly do? They are not told because the majority of members know exactly how much a waste of time it is, plus they could get personal flak instead of the culprits being pursued!

 

Your two, one line comments are accurate Howard – for what they are! But they are meaningless in any positive move towards realistic accident and incident reduction and information to the members!

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest babs1aus]

Hi New to this forum and touch wood that I never fhave to carry out a real engine failure landing.

 

I have a just a little input to make on the subject of emergency landings. Before becomming an Ultralight Pilot I was in the 80s Oh such a long time ago a Paraglider Pilot and Hang glider pilot. I managed to fly in Europe the Uk and substantial hours in Australia over a 7 year period before hanging up the harness. Roughly 1500 hrs in each discipline. I flew most terrain from coastal to Alpine( europe proper Mountains) Most of my ealy flying was on a small coastal site which has claimed many lives over the years and an array of broken bones. Most hang gliders would know the site.

 

To cut ato the chase the local club was very proactive with safety in the 80s and it became a safe well managed site.

 

Water landings on the nth beaches of Sydney were of concern especially headland hoping. (not Common but Happen) The current list of experts pilots Instructors Aust wide all had their theories. These were put to the test in the local aquatic centre and they were all failures. That is even in the calm of a clean pool with no movement they would have drowned without intervention.

 

 

[Guest babs1aus]

To elaborate a little more It was very quickly realised that you must be restrained in a crash / forced lading this makes sure you are in a common familar postion when the action stops. It also means that your exit plan from the aircrft which all pilots shot have rehearsed is from a familar position in a familiar direction Whether upside down back to front in water or not there is only one direction and sequence to exit so if you were in merky water inverted I personally would like to use some rehearsed emergency second nature exit.. Not wedged in wires or in an aircraft jambed against a firewall under your dash.

 

At the end of the day you have to ask are you protecting yourself or your aircraft. You can always go home to your family wife and kids maybe or maybe not fix your plane. However most likely uninjured. It does come down to really knowing the aircraft your in and having a specific escape plan for that aircraft.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I can fully agree with this man. I am familar with most of the northern beaches sites having flown hgs during the seventies and again recently with a pg introduction course(i've flown the italian alps) over the years i witnessed several water landings with two fatalities. Both should never had happened. But what really made me stop and think about water ditchings was a morning in the helicopter dunk tank. The first one was ok, had to think and with even knowing where the exits were it was still very disorienting. When we strapped up for the next dunk i thought this should be easier. Dirty sods turned the lights out. The divers pulled three out of the frame and i was heading for the bottom of the pool when the diver grabbed me and took me back up. Needless to say all bar one would have died. The guy who got to the surface was a lifesaver.

 

If you ever have the chance to do a dunk, do it. What a wake up call!

 

It was hard enough as it was, without thowing in an injury or two or have the wind knocked out of you on impact or worse suffer hydralicing injuries and still try to get out. Then you have to stay on the surface. If you fly over water for any period of time you should have put your escape plan in your emergency landings section. If you like buying nick knacks for your aircraft consider these for your wish list... A jack the ripper hook knife for the seat belts, (it's caught around your foot) small floatation jacket.

 

( activate after egress) and a can of spare air, and a whistle.

 

As for 'crash comics' you can still learn from them even if they're 20 years old. I devoured them when i was teaching myself to fly.

 

 

[Guest micgrace]

Hi Ian

 

I looked at the photo of the rocks on the beach shownbelow of this crash . I think this pilot made the right decision when seeing rocks distributed along the beach. I suppose the tide was in as well, so at minimum height (hopefully legal) would have had almost no choice but to hold off as long as possible.

 

I don't know this area, but suspect this was the best choice.

 

Micgrace

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Spot on Tony Hayes. I looked at UL (RA) for a while. ONe of the the things that beggared belief was the reluctance of anyone to comment on incidents which had recently occurred. Sure you need to be carefull you're not spreading rumour, but button lipping sure doesn't help spread any knowlege. And it wont help save lives either if it's an issue that need addressing asap. - e.g. the greenstar track 11 back in the 70's, early 80's for those (jumpers) who remember.